Pregnant and abusive daughter

...and to avoid derailing I will move on from this particular aspect of the discussion

Violet I agree reset can be a useful word in relationships, on a number of levels

Sorry, yes I was meaning you, violet.
I didn't read it that the daughter had communicated at all with her mum.
You know what, though, my arms and fingers really ache, and I can't summon the energy any more.

VioletSky

MissAdventure

So you think it might be an idea for her to tell her mum, then?

I don't know if you mean me but, you know I had to explain or at least try... I don't think that's appropriate in all cases...

But it does look like OPs daughter did try to tell her something and it didn't go well

I joined gransnet because I’m fascinated by English passive aggressive speech and psychological and social analysis, which here is always brought to a high art! I have been reading and watching the way this group supports some viewpoints and attacks others for quite a while. We will have to disagree about what is a fair reading of the implication of other’s comments. I’m quite confident that my paraphrases are quite accurate even if it makes you uncomfortable to have the implications of some statements drawn out or made explicit.

Sorry that quoted the wrong commenter. I’m still learning the formatting.

I’m quite confident that my paraphrases are quite accurate even if it makes you uncomfortable to have the implications of some statements drawn out or made explicit.

Hmmmm! Not in the least uncomfortable but as I said I will withdraw to stop any further derailing

MissAdventure

Sorry, yes I was meaning you, violet.
I didn't read it that the daughter had communicated at all with her mum.
You know what, though, my arms and fingers really ache, and I can't summon the energy any more.

Hope you have a nice Sunday evening rest MissA

Oldladynewlife glad to read that was a mistake, I was thinking "what have I done now?" lol

Re. your post @ 17.49 Madgran I didn't think I was alone in my interpretation of what I feel the OP has been clear about, but it's good to have it confirmed by someone else.

I completely agree with you that "paraphrasing into one's own particular view point is less than helpful" to the OP or to the discussion.

I've asked that question too MissA 'what does "everything" mean and yes, it would be a good idea for the OP's D to tell her mum exactly what the issues are. Like you, I haven't seen anything to suggest that the D had communicated at all with her mum.

As has been said several times during this discussion, a simple response would have prevented any miss understanding and would have put her mum's mind at rest.

Damned if you do and damned if you don't. If you don't, you don't care and if you do, you're interfering.

It's not a discussion

If you are still around OP, these are my thoughts. I don't know if anyone else will find them relevant.

I'm getting the impression that there are underlying stresses between you and your daughter that she doesn't feel able to deal with right now. I do believe that talking things through openly is almost always the best policy but you can't make her do so till she's ready.

You say she went to your SILs family for a party. That does seem unusual when she's just received such bad news. Are you sure it was for a party? Did you feel she was pushed into going? Is this why you felt the need to ring or was it to ease your own anxiety? And I'm not blaming you for that, you are only human; we worry about our loved ones. But when you mention 4 days with no replies, I wonder how often you texted or rang? You also mention your husband talking to your FiL and it seems between them they made things worse. I'm guessing lots of people are thinking they know what's best and I get the impression that there's some tension between the two families. Is that right?

The thing that purportedly happened 22 years ago. Is this the first you have heard of it? Is it possible that it is due to different perspectives or do you feel it is factually false?

I have experienced first-hand untrue accusations made that the person making is convinced are true even when other people were present at the time in question and swear blind those accusations are false.

Either way, both our memories and our perceptions are subjective.

Scientists and the law courts are well aware that we all rewrite memories to fit our views, and as our views change over the years our memories can change dramatically. It has been shown that given new information we will rewrite memories to incorporate it. I had a friend who had this happen during a court case regarding a traffic accident. The other party swore blind certain things happened and it appeared he really believed those things. Fortunately for our friend, CCTV proved otherwise.
This is something that few of us take into account when we are at odds with others.

None of us can know what did or didn't happen 22 years ago, and it may well be that without corroborative evidence, neither of you can be as sure as you both believe. Perhaps if you could both take on board that memories and perceptions are subjective and find a way to agree to differ you might be able to bridge the gap.

The fact that they were happy to take your help for some time may reflect that her perceptions have recently changed.
Some might think your daughter had repressed certain memories. Others might suggest she has unknowingly moulded them to fit her current state of mind. We cannot know.

Things are usually a lot less black and white than people paint them. If we accept our own imperfections and those of others we have more of a chance of hearing one another.

If you need to talk over the events of 22 years ago I would say that you remember things differently, but are aware that memories are fallable. Saying that you are sorry if you caused any pain can be an honest way of delivering an apology - since we all will have at some point - usually unintentionally. But you don't have to agree to having done something you don't think you have.

As your daughter seems to be running from discussion some of the time, I would try and let her come to you and take good care of yourself and focus on things that make you happy while you wait.

Not knowing what the perceived slight of the past was that caused this riff, all I can say is children will always punish their parents and parents will love them anyway. Hit the reset button. My son and I had a strained relationship throughout his adult life. I don't know what I did wrong but it doesn't matter. What matters is we told each other that we loved each other three days before he was killed in a motorcycle accident just before his 43rd birthday. He was my only child, my life, my reason to feel proud! He had 2 stepchildren he lost in divorce and none of his own. So in short, be grateful for all you have because despite all your family woes, you are a lucky mother and grandmother. Savor any tidbits you can get and I wish you and your daughter all the best and all the hope for the future. You have so much to be thankful for.

Excellent and very perceptive post hugshelp

DeeZ

Not knowing what the perceived slight of the past was that caused this riff, all I can say is children will always punish their parents and parents will love them anyway. Hit the reset button. My son and I had a strained relationship throughout his adult life. I don't know what I did wrong but it doesn't matter. What matters is we told each other that we loved each other three days before he was killed in a motorcycle accident just before his 43rd birthday. He was my only child, my life, my reason to feel proud! He had 2 stepchildren he lost in divorce and none of his own. So in short, be grateful for all you have because despite all your family woes, you are a lucky mother and grandmother. Savor any tidbits you can get and I wish you and your daughter all the best and all the hope for the future. You have so much to be thankful for.

That's very sad, DeeZ.

It's hopefully a comfort to you, that despite your difficulties with each other, that you could acknowledge and express the abiding love you had for each other, regardless of any disputes and arguments.

Life can change in a heartbeat, and very often only regrets are left, when someone dies, over things that weren't said and dealt with.

Losing someone puts all these family fall outs into perspective - most family fall outs can be solved with love and willingness on both sides.

Look after yourself.

Following the ring theory of support, I’m very surprised that there are so many comments blaming the daughter.

In the ring theory, the daughter is in the primary circle. Her husband would be secondary (he could be in the first with her, but as she’s the pregnant person, I’d say that his support goes to her). Then grandparents, close friends and family in the third.

OP was seeking reassurance for her worries. That’s not the job of the primary circle. Support is to go TO them, not FROM them. OP knew her daughter was with her husband, not alone. There’s literally nothing the OP could have done for her daughter while she was visiting at her in-laws, so why was she so determined to get ahold of her? If her daughter wanted to reach out to the OP, she would have.

The daughter was struggling, in the face of possibility devastating news. She shouldn’t have to take responsibility for other people’s feelings on top of that.

I’m very surprised that there are so many comments blaming the daughter.

It's not about "blame", people are offering different perspectives on where things are at now and why, on the basis of the information given by the OP

eg many have suggested over various comments both that it was not appropriate for the OP to contact the FIL or ask for secrecy but also suggested that the problem would not have arisen had the daughter acted differently!! That is not blame that is balanced comment on mistakes all round!! The OP can consider those two aspects as she sees fit

Yup know the ring theory too.

A stark reminder Deez of how as DiamondLily has said, "Life can change in a heart beat".

Excellent post hugshelp even though she's not been back to post, I hope the OP reads it.

We support one another, and of course those most affected need the most support, but those supporting them understandably need reassurance that the one they're supporting is OK.

IMO the OP simply wanted reassurance that her D was OK. Thankfully everyone knew that the baby was alright when her D went away, her mum was concerned about her mental health because of how her D feels about some of her H's family.

There are many theories when it comes to understanding relationships and how best to negotiate difficulties. That said even those of us who know and understand them, don't have them at the fore front of our minds when in the midst of a difficult situation.

Our actions and responses are based on instinct rather than theories.

Theories aren't a "one size-fits all" anyway.

People are what they are, and endless theories won't change a thing.

I don't know, as I've never got into this "psychology" stuff - I keep it simple with my theory of if all parties show love, respect, consideration, honesty and understanding, then most things can be solved.

But, of course, life isn't always that simple, because it can be impossible to change the behaviour of others, if they lack those things, or have their own agenda going on.

Great theory DiamondLily.

* Since she knew her daughter was with the son in law, and with the son in law’s family, there should have been no fantasizing that something was “wrong” with the daughter that required maternal intervention. In the unlikely event that daughter got injured or sick OP would have been informed in due time. Not, perhaps, on her timeline but the daughter’s timeline is the only one that matters.*

I think ‘fantasizing’ is a bit harsh. The OP stated that her daughter had had several surgeries, IVF and has several ongoing physical problems. She also clearly stated that her daughter wasn’t in a good place emotionally. The OP was also worried about some issues her daughter has with some of her husband’s family and feared for her mental state. I realise that there had been some estrangement for a couple of years, but this doesn’t appear to have been serious enough to stop the OP from babysitting on a regular basis, or from helping out financially, during what was obviously a stressful time during the pandemic. Do you not think that, given the OP was a first hand party to all of this - and after all she is her mother - she might have had good reason to worry about her daughter ?

Sorry - posted to soon. I also think it’s significant that the row over what happened 22 years ago only blew up after the FIL told the son that the OP had rung. Not sure if that indicates some perceived problems with boundary/confidentiality issues in the past.

Smileless2012

There are many theories when it comes to understanding relationships and how best to negotiate difficulties. That said even those of us who know and understand them, don't have them at the fore front of our minds when in the midst of a difficult situation.

Our actions and responses are based on instinct rather than theories.

I agree - and in this instance the OP was acting on a mothers’ instinct that after four days of no contact, all was not well. All the psychology in the world is of no use when your gut is telling you something is wrong.

All the psychology in the world is of no use when your gut is telling you something is wrong

True!!

Very true Pammiel.

I think that's a good point, that the mention of whatever happened 22 years happened after the f.i.l. had disclosed he'd had a 'phone call. That that may have resurrected previous issues with boundary/confidentiality.

I know I would have been worried having tried to contact my D for 4 days, with all that's been going on, and getting no response.

* I’m very surprised that there are so many comments blaming the daughter.*

I suspect many of the responses are highly associated with whether the poster would have called the FIL and felt justified in doing so. In that view, it is not so surprising.

I hope not, this isn't about anyone else justifying their behaviour, OP wants her mother daughter relationship back on track