Looking for the right answer to criticisms.

Such great advice from everyone. All I can suggest is that Eugenia either reads and rereads all this good advice with an open, curious, mind or that she go back to her therapist and ask the therapist to help her read these comments and figure out how they apply. The therapist is trying to help you, Eugenia, deal with the fact that you are coming into the later stages of life at which point we all need to be growing in wisdom and finding meaning in our lives—perhaps that is something which was denied to you, or which you didn’t think was necessary in all the Hurley burley of family life. But as we enter our last third of life we have to face up to it bravely. What goals do you have for the next thirty years—what relationships? What values? How will you live those values? Not facilely (“I would forgive my SIL” is facile because he’s not asking you for forgiveness) but concretely: what will you do, where will you go, who will go with you? You’ve said several times you aren’t happy—what is your plan for finding out what makes you happy and doing it (that isn’t dependent on the attention of a four year old boy?)

Eugenia, the impression that comes to me from your comments is that you are like a bystander in your own life, just watching it all happen and then dealing with the emotional toll it has on you.

I think this really has to change and you need to take control.

It's no good just living in your head, wondering about the what ifs, wishing things were different, crying alone.

You can't change others, only yourself... That's true. So change yourself. Be the best version of yourself. Be the best parent you can be to your individual children. Don't try to treat them the same and expect the same results, put the work in equally. Take responsibility for your failings as well as your accomplishments.

Either your family will grow with you or you will grow apart but at least you will know you set the right example

If your first reaction to my comment above is 'no, of course i wouldn't try to guilt anyone', the question stands - what will you do then?

There are none so blind as those who will not see.

The point that many here have made eugenia is that the grandkids are not yours to focus on. Focus on things that make you happy, yes, but you have no claim over these grandkids. Even if you bide your time, wait until they are old enough to contact you independently, old enough to want to spend time with you under their own steam... Who's to say they will? What if they have other priorities, other people they want to pay attention to, friends, partners, etc? What will you do then? Will you try to guilt them? Convince them to prioritise you in some way? Perhaps your daughter doesn't want that for her kids? Perhaps she wants them to focus on their own lives as they grow older and more independent. That would certainly be a healthier approach.

I haven't really told all of what she has done. I won't either, Suffice to say, some of you would be shocked and would have a different view. Yes, I justify. Bad habits form I guess when people are not happy with simple apology for getting them irritated with your feelings or feel you have no rights to say anything other than what they want to hear.

That is kinda my family. Look up scapegoating. I read perfectly as the scapegoat. And it's not ALL about me.....

They all have gotten mad at me when I do not control or agree with whoever is mad at whoever! When my husband has ever had an issue with my son or daughter.....he blames me when I do not do anything about their behaviors that he doesn't like or don't get mad at them for him.

It's my fault they act that way is what I am told. Yet they are grown adult people!!! I cannot control grown adult people. No kidding, he says I take their side when I usually am neutral or agreeing but really again, cannot control what they do or say.

My son and daughter have done this too in the past. When they would be mad at my husband for something, they would say I am at fault for his behavior because I don't somehow stop him.

My daughter has complained to me about my son and my son has complained about her in the past but usually again for some reason if not for me, they would not act that way. I get blamed for everything ,like I have some power I am not using to make everyone shape up.

We mostly all get along but when these things come up, it's always let's blame mom. I found out through research that this is hallmark scapegoating. There is one person who gets picked in that dynamic and it's really not a curable thing. Gotta learn to live with it.

This has created in me , a very defensive person. Call it justification, excuses, whatever, I call it self defense, survival. If I didn't do that I imagine I would just give up on life at this point, but I'm still trying to fight.

That's why I consulted here , to get some opinions and help. I did get some of that, but also a lot of judgement. I figure though, without the whole picture, it's hard for people to really know what I have to deal with. It's way too long to go into in such a forum.
A couple of people got it right, some learned behaviors my husband passed on to my kids is what has developed but things were pretty good anyway until my daughters life came unraveled.

Thanks to those who kinda got what is going on despite the lack of many events and details I just don't want to disclose in a public place. But I'm done with others who are arm chair psychologists.

I have a therapist already who I have told the whole history and she agrees my daughter and family are acting inappropriately towards me but her advice is I cannot change them so she helps with my defense, although she acknowledges I am dealing with unreasonable people so there is only so much I can do.

Guess I thought someone else had a different answer. Seems the therapist was right and I'm on my own. She said I have to be my own advocate; even that's hard when people don't want you to do so.

Guess that's all. I'm pretty much screwed so the only thing I can do is bury my own feelings and concentrate on what makes me happy; if that's grandkids, so be it. Time to be selfish because loving, caring and getting so involved , just didn't work out.

I'm done.

Eugenia you appear to be answering posters but just not "listening". I suggest you read again from the beginning of the thread, write down the key constructive advice kindly given and very honest, then start thinking about it for yourself and working iout your way forward!

You and others are just going round in circles on here now. You need to listen!!

I know it's not my business, Eugenia, but what you think about a middle-aged man living at home with mom? Only asking, because my DS divorced several years ago, and I have a great deal more to be angry at my DIL for than you at your SIL. However, there's no way that I would allow my son (or daughter, if it happened to her) to move back home in their 40s. For a week or two to get over the heartbreak, but not as a permanent arrangement. For THEIR sake, not mine. Paddling about in perpetual amniotic fluid is really unhealthy, surely? Though I know it's a lot more common in the UK than here in NZ, I would have thought that the USA would have a broader outlook. To me, it's part of the whole picture of what's going on in your family. Especially the part about how it would be torture for you if your son had kids. That's so very sad. It's tragic, actually.
I'm signing off now, because I don't think that you actually want help at all. People's attempts to offer suggestions based on our own life experiences are not actually welcomed. There have been some really insightful offerings made, in good faith, to give you something to ponder upon. All you really want to do is parade your own prejudices and yes, vindictiveness. I wish you would listen to reason, Eugenia, as you still have a quarter of a century to live. But I'm not going to waste any more time trying to help. It's over to you.

TYPO! I meant 40s, of course.

Eugenia - I asked about your son, because I suspected that what is the case might be the case. He's in his 50s, I assume? And back at home with you permanently?

Oh just as well; my daughter's kids are so cute it's torture so it would just be more torture for me haha if my son had kids.

Why is it always about you?

There is a disconnect here between the advice being given and the situation as you see it eugenia. I think this is because you are being given advice based on your inner views, but so far as you are concerned those inner views are private and your daughter is unaware of them. I think many posters, myself included, find it very plausuble that your daughter is more aware of your inner thoughts than you think she is, and is reacting to that.

The only other explanation for her behaviour is that you are as stealthy as you think you are and she's just a bad egg. I'm sorry, that just seems less plausible, not because i have any particular faith in your daughter, but because people are rarely as stealthy as they think they are. You make a point of saying that you know her very very well. She's known you probably more than half your life(?) I'll bet she knows you pretty well as well?

*our

OK. Forget the forgiveness then. What do you think you have to do to have a better relationship with your daughter? I will stick to the fact that unless you do, you will not have one with your grandchildren, because she does call the shots.

You do justify yourself. Instead of that, how about trying to see her alone, on neutral turf and talking plainly to her, trying to rebuild the relationship?

No one on here, including me, has a vested interest in how this turns out for you. It won't affect out lives at all. Please consider that, if you think anyone is unreasonable.

CPL593H Then why the third degree about I have nothing to forgive, as though I expected an apology? I do not.

I thought forgiveness automatically means not holding a grudge, but hey. Perhaps I misunderstood.

All I know about your "life and circumstances" is what you wrote here, of course. Your only conduit to a relationship with your grandchildren is via your daughter, your child. You are on very shaky ground and I would advise you again to take some steps back and try to re establish your relationship with her on a healthier footing.

Yes - exactly!

Fleur20 Much of what you said is helpful...thank you!

CPL593H I'm pretty sure I made it clear my "forgiveness" meant I would never hold a grudge. But please, do not waste your time with people you know little about their lives and circumstances.

VioletSky Good advice. Your'e right. Thank you.

BoadiceaJones well it sure feels old to me. You are quite impressive, wowww !! I need to get in shape again.

M0nica Well apparently and unfortunately for me, that life did exist; clearly that is why I didn't notice the world was one big piece of excrement until more recently.

I actually tried therapy but I discovered a constant thing about it is that it creates more of a self centered feeling. That is quite useful when nobody else really cares and you need self care I suppose.

But it does more splitting of family than healing when it's all about you. It's only real use is a way to deal with others dismissive attitude of your feelings whilst theirs are of the upmost importance.

Maybe the world could use more mother love and apple pie, it certainly would be better than the crap going on now.

Yeah but right now he can go to ...

There's a lot of hate in that sentence, Eugenia, specially for a Christian. Let it go.

And no, 65 is not old. I was still teaching teenagers full-time at that age. And at 68 I travelled to Rome, from New Zealand by myself, and had a wonderful 3 weeks all over Italy. At 69, my friend and I went to Istanbul and to Jordan for 2 weeks, swam in the Dead Sea, rode a camel, trekked to Petra, camped in Wadi Rum, in the desert, under the stars. You're a long way from being old. Seize the day!

BoadiceaJones Oh I missed something. Is 65 old? I think so. Yes, I didn't get into menopause until after 61 years of age. Maybe that was the problem.

Oh, and I forgot. My husband. Eh....we have the same ideals but we are not on the same page in life. But it's ok. Not everyone gets that fairy tale or a life taken out of a page of the Notebook. These days, you are lucky just to like each other! Look at the divorce rate and tell me that's not true.

Our sex life is ok, considering the age and menopause. Don't really want any meds or things like that, I don't even drink. Menopause really pounded me so I'm looking at more exercise again; I used to lift quite the weights now I'm out of shape but slowly trying again.

BoadiceaJones well I think I cleared up some of your questions in my last post. I have never been intrusive by nature. I do have needs/expectations/passions like anyone else. I'm not sure, to tell the truth, I've ever hurt anyone but if someone is upset with me, for whatever reason, I usually try to make amends.

However, I've been told most people look at apology as admission of intent to hurt and that's just not the truth. But I've talked to people who say they never apologize for that reason. I wonder if they are right.

I do agree with the words from the bible; however, does my "sin" wash away the sin of others? I think part of my problem is not so much a habit of blaming.....it's just telling the truth about what horrible things people have done.

Not what I assume they have done..... or what I think they are capable of, but it's really true......actions speak a thousand words.

I do admire my son. Actually I admire both my kids. They have worked hard. My son just has this very logical unique way of looking at things, with just a touch of understanding (heart) but it's very eye opening for me. He seems to have a lot figured out.

He actually moved back home and we get along pretty good, thus all the talks about studies but also about many other things that are just very insightful for me. He teaches computer science at the college and only sad part I would think is he isn't looking to get remarried, but he's happy in that sense, so I think I am too.

Oh just as well; my daughter's kids are so cute it's torture so it would just be more torture for me haha if my son had kids.

And ah ha, I think that also answered one of your other questions with a big yes. So maybe it's for the best.