Estranged son .

I do think becoming a father may change his attitude. But I also know that men almost always veer towards their partner's family. It has happened to people I know and, to an extent, me too. I truly don't think sons realise what they are doing. It seems to be ingrained. I know a lady who had to pay her son to come to visit her and do jobs, otherwise he would constantly be with the wife's family. I fear, with sons, it's how they often are. And many think parents have endless money though where they think we get it from I don't know. Don't despair. Things may well change for the better. Hang on in there.

I am so sorry to hear of your sad situation. Can't one of your other sons speak to him and make him understand how hurtful his behaviour is?

It seems a really odd thing for the father in law to say to you.

Did the in laws contribute significantly to this wedding?

Perhaps his pride feels a little jolted that her parents contributed more than his? Perhaps they rub it in a little?

I think sometimes when one family is quite enmeshed, coming in to that as an adult a person might feel 'ah, this is a normal family, why is mine not like this?' and its only after time that you realise that the more enmeshed family isn't nessesarily better.

Or, you say this son is the favourite, do you treat him differently because of that? Do you give him more space, or try to overcompensate. Perhaps it unwittingly reads that you care less about him than his brothers.

Do the brothers agree with him?

Do the brothers have kids? Have they had weddings? How involved were you, did you contribute?

The fil, with that comment seems to be saying 'finished raising your son for you, fyi.' Very rude, and hurtful. But an interesting insight into his perspective?

I have three sons and even if one treat me like this I would just let him stew in his own pity. I won’t ever be held to ransom with emotional blackmail and I feel as sons I’ve helped them in the best ways I could. You’ve given them deposits for houses and you’ve helped him through university what is his problem?

I think you should view it as a positive he is in counselling. Hopefully they will help him find clarity there.

I would personally send a short letter saying that you have heard he is in counselling, that you will be there when he is ready to talk through his issues together and you will give him the space he needs in the meantime.

Be very careful not to include your hurt feelings or any blame towards him. I know that is har but that may be viewed as guilt tripping and leave him less open to communicating when he is ready.

Then stop contacting, and try not to put his sibling in the middle, it's OK to ask how he is but don't try to press them for info or ask them to pa messages or offload anything negative about him to them. This will make reconsiliation much easier in future.

It might be a good idea for you to get counselling too to help deal with this painful situation

Wishing you all the best

Has he ever given you any reasons why he was not happy with his childhood?

Sadly the definition of normal is very subjective - what is normal for you it is not for another.

You do admit having a favourite amongst your kids - that may have impacted your kids

This all sounds very hurtful but I think violetsky makes a good point—try to leave the door open. And I would add that we really don’t always know the truth of our children’s experience. Birth order, family circumstances, sibling relationships —all of these massively impact a child’s experience but are so natural and inevitable from the parent’s point of view that we don’t always appreciate the disparate impact.

Being welcomed into a different family through marriage can be a real eye opener—and also a kind of seduction. My oh was the middle boy in a very difficult family. I well remember my first dinner with them realizing how little they appreciated him. To this day he is still surprised and delighted (30 years on) with the way my mother treats him as a beloved son in law and near god like figure (!) who gets deferred to rather than chastised.

I would personally send a short letter saying that you have heard he is in counselling, that you will be there when he is ready to talk through his issues together and you will give him the space he needs in the meantime

*Lkathryn So sorry that you are facing this situation. The advice quoted above is what I would personally do as well, on the basis of the information that you have provided.

Good advice violetsky

Thank you all for you kind comments .
I have read lots of other posts now that have made me realise there are so many others in my situation.
I was one of six children and our parents were so supportive of us all and I miss my mother dearly. I could never imagine this situation happening .
In answer to questions. This is my youngest of three sons, the other two are not married , one lives with his partner and very happy, no children, he facetimes prob weekly or if he has special news to share, his partners and her are mum are lovely . They live an hours drive away
The middle son lives locally single with a dog, ( they are much less complicated than women!) who we see daily as we do doggies day care , he is the quiet one !

Our youngest who has estranged lives a good three hour drive away.
I do believe their childhood was normal , they all did well at school, he excelled in sport , we always had a house full of their friends , their grandparents aunts uncles and cousins they saw two or three times a year , for holidays birthdays and were very close.
But I do not think it’s his childhood he has a problem with , it’s his adult relationship with us.
He met his now wife on line after the break down of a two year relationship .
All her family live in the same town and she went to university in that town she has one sister who lives with a boyfriend locally.
When my mother died and I inherited money I offered all three boys a deposit for a house .
He and the new girlfriend decided they wanted to buy together, but neither had any savings in fact we had to clear his credit card debts for him to get a mortgage .
As it was a new relationship I also said as I would not be able to find the money again for a deposit so he had to make it clear if the relationship did not last he got his money back.
We went for his house warming and met her parents , aunts grandparents . We were constantly told , he was the son they always wanted and her dad loved him more than her. I was pleased he was welcomed into their family.
Shortly after buying the house they announced their engagement , and a date two years in the future for the wedding we were delighted she is lovely .
And here is where I believe it started to go wrong , my sons exact words were, “ her mum and dad are putting up 35 grand for the wedding , what can you put up.?”
I was shocked to be asked for more money .
Also at how much they would spend on a wedding ( Googling average cost at £20k ) for one day and her parents had not contributed at all towards the house.
I said “ you have just had money for the house we have no savings left”
He replied with” isn’t it time you down sized and released equity from the house ?”
My reply” what to fund your wedding? our house is our pension , and is still mortgaged . I don’t think so !”
He really took the view then, that we were unsupportive and not interested in the wedding.
The two years preparation were during Covid so we were unable to visit . Phones calls were all about the wedding and we were very much excluded.
He asked again for money for a honeymoon , and we also suggested we paid for his suit and all the champagne, wine and drinks .
Six weeks before the wedding they announced she was pregnant ,, we were delighted .
But secretly I though it was not a good idea , they were both young and what if she is ill for the wedding .as she was very sick initially .
The wedding was amazing , spoilt by her dads comments at the rehearsal and in his speech he mentioned how much the wedding had cost him !
My son hardly spoke to us on the day , but it was a very busy day .
A month after the wedding they came with the in laws for a weekend . But it was terribly strained finding fault in everything .
And just after that . We had the WhatsApp message saying he wanted no contact .
I can see he has been embraced by her family and made to feel very special , they see them almost every day .
He has few friends of his own down there .
I know they will be well supported and I guess I should be delighted .
I wonder if her father is very controlling and has heavily influenced his decision .
The past six months have been awful constantly checking my phone in hope of a message , looking at social media to see if there is anything on there.
I think we had become resolved to his estrangement , but since the arrival of the baby , I have found it hard to concentrate on anything else. He communicates with our other two sons , the eldest is annoyed but I have told him I don’t want them falling out . Our middle son maybe has a bit more contact but says very little . And I don’t want him to be piggy in the middle , or have to take sides .
I have very sad days and F* you days .
I am desperate for him to make contact but know that I would be on eggshells in case I said something wrong , he has destroyed all my confidence .
I was a high level health professional before I retired. My husband has lost his easy going manner.
And if he did make contact and then decided to break off again I’m not sure I could cope.
So as I say “ it is what it is! Ours is not to understand ,just accept the situation”

Meanwhile we have each other and lots of lovely friends and neighbours who support us fully .
Spring is coming, We did actually retire and move house last year, ( downsized but not value!) to a quant cottage with a beautiful garden which I love and am happy to spend my days doing .
Just typing this makes me feel better, I have so much to be grateful for , we have no control over his actions.
We need to be happy , but maybe one day …………………..

Putting thoughts and feelings in writing is surprisingly cathartic Lkathryn and I'm glad you feel better for doing so.

It must have been a fabulous day if it cost 35k; how can anyone spend so much on a wedding.

Many estrangements are caused by the influence of a third party, a once close and loving relationship falling apart as a result.

It does look as if your son was unwilling to accept that when he asked for money, you had none to give. A sense of entitlement that merely makes the situation worse.

When your AC behaves in this way, your confidence in yourself, in them and in the relationship is understandably undermined and I often wonder if they ever consider that may be the case.

You will be happy again. I never thought we would be but we are. Our lives are not how we thought they'd be and never will be now but the passage of time does help to ease the pain.

For us, the sad days have become much fewer and we no longer hope for or think about reconciliation. The trust has gone and like you, neither of us believe we could cope if our ES were to resume contact and then estrange us again.

I also say "it is what it is". We cannot change what has happened so we make the most of what we do have .

The whole situation is quite recent and I think you need to step back so that he can see what he is missing without you in his life, the fact that he is doing counselling is very positive because he has recognised that there is something wrong. Unfortunately it hasn't worked for a lot of us estranged parents but bide your time for a while.

Elless i know they are all different and I hope he has a good counsellor , words he used in his estrangement message were definitely influenced by this ‘ our influence on his developing adult mind ‘ and ‘ unless I reach out to you’
sadly I lost my trust in counselling when , as a health professional I was approached by a counsellor who was seeing a previous patient for recovery after a stillborn twin .
I could not divulge medical information but it was just not true she had had one perfectly healthy baby !

My sympathy is reserved, you have stated he was your favourite, you were always the bank of Mum and Dad, he is now an entitled adult, who cannot be told no.
He has grown up expecting you to pay for things, and he is influened by money and what people can give him. I feel he is greedy and unpleasant.
If I am honest you are lucky you have two other kind lovely sons. I do think you have some responsibility for his behavior, but that is in the past, if it was me I would give him no more money, just normal presents for Christmas ect for the family. This son needs to learn that relationships are about love and not finances, you can only hope things change when he realises you will not bank role him anymore. I hope he comes to his senses and you have a relationship with your Grandson.

I feel so sorry for you Lkathryn.
Your son obviously hasn't appreciated all the financial support you've given him over the years but instead has assumed it's his right. His comment about you needing to downsize so you can give him yet more money is breathtakingly arrogant.

Is he going to carry on living above his means and require his father-in-law to bale him out now? If so he might find he's not quite so popular there in a few years time.

I hope the counsellor can help him realise he needs to grow up and support himself and his own family.

The other thread, Friendship and support, will give you people with more experience of this awful situation and how to cope and deal with it. You may be surprised to find how common it is! Good luck.

LKathryn that is a lit for the wedding. If his inlaws are a bit competitive do you think that they made him feel embarassed for their contribution? Or were rude that you didn't?

I've had lots of ounselling and it can be really fantastic. I was always asked to look at all the angles and points of view.

Maybe for now try not to guess too much or rea into what he has said. Let him come to you when he is ready.

I think it would be a huge shame if you couldn't forgive or trust him again. That's your son, he is going through something

LKathryn.

Sorry you have suffered so much at the hands of your son. I agree with others, he needs a serious wake up call, and learn how to be an adult.

He seems to think that love is transactional, withdrawing his love and affection for you because you couldn't keep bankrolling his extravagant lifestyle. £35k in a wedding is outrageous. And yes Im aware that some people spend even more but if that's the kind d of wedding he wanted then he should have coughed up himself and not expect his parents to sell the family home togive him yet more money over and above the amount you had already been generous enough to gift him.

He has some serious growing up to do. Leave him to it. Say nothing, just step back and keep your own counsel. The best thing you can do is build you own new life in retirement, be happy and fulfilled.

He will probably contact you again in due course. You can then take it from there but please don't allow him to bully you, or use emotional blackmail by using your grandchild as a pawn. Don't be a doormat and no more financial help, no matter how bad a mess he gets into. He needs to learn fiscal responsibility and that love cannot be bought and sold.

Sorry to read about your problems with your son. He needs a reality check if he thinks that you should pay for his wedding. I think that the days are long gone when parents were expected to pay. Most of my friends who have married children were told that they didn't want financial contributions other than maybe pay for the wedding dress, if it was their daughter getting married.
I really don't understand why some parents allow themselves to be "blackmailed" into paying enormous sums towards a child's wedding. Back in the 90s the daughter of one of my husband's suppliers married. It cost around £12k - at that time very expensive - and a year later she ran off with her father's auditor. This bore out my theory that the more expensive the wedding, the risk of marriage breakdown increases exponentially.

You are lucky that you have a good relationship with your other two sons. Maybe one of them might be able to intervene at a later date.

Some of here ACs really need to grow up, stop expecting their parents to fund their luxuries, be grateful for what they have had, and accept that no one owes them anything. ?

OP - You can't change his or anyone else's behaviour - the only thing you can be in control of is your own reactions to their tantrums and demands. I would take a step back, refuse to pander or justify, and let him realise that you won't be emotionally blackmailed.

Best wishes.

LKathryn, I genuinely feel for you, he is so out of order and needs to grow up. I cannot justify his treatment of you as he has become a greedy entitled adult, you can make excuses for him, but that’s the truth. Unfortunately we as parents. have allowed them to do so. We want to help our children, especially when you’ve worked hard all your life so they can have better life than us. My parents were not in a position to give financial help, we all got worked hard and bought our own homes, we valued our parent so much, we expected nothing. Just the unconditional love and support they gave us. Now it’s the bank of mom and dad. Money or the love of it really is the root of all evil. Please don’t waste your life waiting for him to change, you did the best you could for the right reasons, hindsight is wonderful, but reality is we have to live with what we have. Value the ones that care for you, be happy with them don’t spoil it all for an ungrateful child, however old they are. I don’t believe in counselling, talking over perceived faults reliving unhappiness makes you dwell on it constantly delving into everything, wasted years trying to make sense of nonsense. Blamed myself, how I wish I hadn’t. People show what they are like, just believe it. Look for the good around you, clear the negative. You deserve respect, one day he will recognise that, wait until he us older see how he has all the answers.p

Lkathryn
I'm not going into the complications of my earlier years but I can say that I do know what you are going through.
The heartbreak, the nights of thoughts going round your head, not being able to sleep because of not knowing why this happened. It goes on and on for many years and it did for me. My husband is rock but he doesn't know the heartache and tears I've cried over the years when I've been alone.
The years go on, you make a life for yourself and fill it with happy memories but the box in your head which contains the memories of the past is always there.
Sometimes life throws things at you, never forget you have done your best for your family and that cannot be taken away from you. That is all anyone can do.
Look to the future and when you can start living again for your husband and family. I wish you the very best for the future.

L Kathryn I’m just so sorry for what you are going through. I am glad that you have been able to downsize, get into the new cottage, and keep up with your other sons and friends. There is really nothing more to be done with your youngest son—he has to find his own way back to you all and it just sounds like his new life/wife/child is just too absorbing.