Friendship,advice and support if estrangement has affected your life.

Good morning everyone.

I too was a little nervous about opening the thread this morning, but I'm delighted to see so many positive and affirmative posts,

I'm not a believer. But God (or whoever/whatever) bless you all.?

Whiff. Hope you are recovered from your "pig of a day".

Well today is going to be one of pure self indulgence. A bit of serious pampering this morning starting with an Epsom salt Bath to ease my poor old aching body, some yoga, then a massage this afternoon. See if I can't tame these aches and pains.

A hair cut on Monday. I really need to get my eyes tested and book a dental appt. I also want to get a shingles jab. What a palaver.

The older I get the more high maintenance I become. It's becoming a full time job keeping this body "on the road". Hey ho. But, as they say it beats the alternative.....

Bette Davis once said "aging ain't for cissies". How right she was. But with age comes experience and the ability to take a step back and take the long view.

We look at our EACs and fear for them, knowing as we do that life is not a bed of roses and that, when the chips are down, we all need the support of a loving family. Our EACs are denying themselves that support network.

As the old saying goes, blood is thicker than water. A relative is a relative. My sister and I went through a rocky patch (caused by my disruptive narc father, he tore us apart). For a time I had to not exactly estrange her, but take a few steps back. It broke my heart. We had always been as thick as thieves, my father was jealous of our bond so set about destroying it.

Thankfully she is now back in my life and is once again my best friend. We had to take our reunion in easy stages, small steps but thankfully we are back again, stronger, more loyal and supportive than ever.

Anyway it's wonderful too to so many of you back here, supporting the thread.

Hope you all have a peaceful weekend. I'm going to get some rest and just gently potter.

I'm lucky in that I am not estranged, I look at this thread quite often, and am impressed by the support that you all offer each other,and I think that it's very sad that people are told that the estrangement is all their fault. Carry on Smiles and the rest of you supporting each other, and try to ignore the disruptors.

Statistics, poll and surveys very much depend on who has asked the question, what the question is, and how it has been phrased, and how many people have expressed an opinion.

Bias, manipulation and false reporting can also play a part.

Which is why polls, surveys etc. with things like elections, often get it hopelessly wrong.

Statistics don't tell any story, they just tell bald answers, from a few people. ?

So sorry you had a bad day yesterday Whiff and that because of the disruption to this thread you don't feel comfortable sharing it here openly, which is what this thread is for.

As well as appearing on different forums over the years, this thread has also seen some name changes and the one it has today which you created, is for me the most inclusive one yet.

That said if some posters don't feel this is the thread for them, there's no need to read and post here and there is also no need to disrupt it for those who do want to be here, and rely on its calm and supportive content.

I'm not going anywhere either. I've been posting on these threads for 10 years and know what a life line they've been to me and others.

Frustrated and confused sums it up Chewbacca. I have no idea why this is happening. It's been some time since we've seen this here on the estrangement forum and I suppose rather naively, I hoped we'd never see it again. It saddens me that this is happening, and that some long time posters now feel they need to take a break for their emotional well being, when this threads only purpose is to support and try to help people.

It was with fear and trepidation that I looked on this thread this morning. I didn't read anything after my last post yesterday, looking only at pm's. So I am so pleased to see so many fair, reasonable and common sense posts.

So, back to business. It's a shame that it's come to this with your step son DiamondLily, 'Hobson's Choice' springs to mind but what matters is the life you and your DH have, and that cannot be an enjoyable one if things continue as they have been.

I can only speak from my own experience as an estranged parent. One of the first things that happened in our previously loving and close relationship was that our motivation was questioned. I found that this was an increasing theme and once embedded, something that determined the future estrangement. It became so bad that our son even told us that the money we had put into his first house purchase was done to control him, rather than an act of love, which it was.
I have followed this thread and have seen this questioning of motivation re-introduced here. Every estranged parent and estranging child has their own unique story and to question their motivation and quote statistics to back up your arguments of abuse are to my mind meaningless . They are from one personal perspective only. I know we were not abusive parents and find it disturbing to have it suggested otherwise because it is claimed that most estranging adult children, estranged because they were abused. A statistic quoted for what purpose by someone who knows nothing about our lives.

Whiff

DiamondLily there are only to certainties in life we are born we die. The rest we have to what we can.

Glad you and your husband have eachother and have made your stand. You have had more than your fare share of forms of estrangement like others also have. I am luckily only have one sort and that's enough for me to cope with.

Well, to be honest, it doesn't compare to the pain caused when your own AC cut you off, for no real reason, so you have had much more to deal with than me, in a way.

Walking away from my toxic, mentally deranged ex MIL, after 7 years, didn't cause me undue stress. I couldn't have the children exposed to her harmful behaviour, so it was a no brainer. I never looked back.

My mother was more complicated. She was emotionally awful to me, though very good on a practical level, but she turned out to be a wonderful granny in all ways - the best my children could have had.

My children, and later, my grandchildren, loved her dearly, as she did them. For me, it was about putting my children's best interests first. Estranging her would have ripped a huge hole in their lives. I wouldn't do it.

My step-son is a nightmare, but I've got no emotional problem with it, other than seeing my DH so distressed by his ongoing behaviour. That infuriates me.?

But, whatever our problems, we have to make the best of it and just jog on with life.

I hope you feel better after your "bad day" yesterday. ?

DiamondLily there are only to certainties in life we are born we die. The rest we have to what we can.

Glad you and your husband have eachother and have made your stand. You have had more than your fare share of forms of estrangement like others also have. I am luckily only have one sort and that's enough for me to cope with.

I've got feet in the estranger camp (my ex MIL), "the possibly abused but didn't estrange" camp (my mother), and my bouncing 18 years estrangements from my adult stepson.

I've handled each as I've thought best, for myself and my children, and no regrets.?

The first two camps no longer apply, as both are deceased.

My stepson can carry on how he likes - DH and I just will not give in to him.

So, his tantrums are for him to have.

If he sees himself as a victim, well tough - "life's a buggar and then we die", as they say.?

The way forward is to stop throwing people's words back at them.

We all have a story and they are our story. No one has the right to say you are a liar ,that couldn't happen like you said,of course you know what you did wrong to make your loved one decide they no longer want or need you in there life and all the other things that could be said to make the person posting into a horrible person and they deserve everything that has happened to them.

This is a thread for anyone who has been estranged, touched by estrangement, in the mid of estrangement, in fear of being estranged or was estranged and have been reunited with their loved one. Think that covers all estrangement. If I missed a sort out someone will tell me.

Estrangement is a living death. My son and family are alive but I grieve everyday for them. It's like my mom having dementia. My mom had died but her body lived on. I grieved for my mom when she was alive. My grief for my husband is deeper and gets worse as the years go by. But I learnt to cope.

It's been 18 years since my husband died. As I have said to others who have lost their life partners I call the first 10 years the early years of grief. Because that is my personal experience.

It's been 2 years since my son decided I am not wanted or needed and it hurts. Because I didn't do anything wrong.

2019 finally did what both my children had wanted me to do for years and that's move closer to them. I live 10 mins via car away from my daughter and 40 from my son instead of 2.5-3 hours via car . 2 hours by train .

For me Estrangement came out of the blue no warning no idea it was going to happen. Didn't even know it was called estrangement. But my son hasn't just dumped me but all over side of the family.

I had a loving and caring son until May 2020. Then his text and email which ended with I don't like you mom but love you give me time. So I sent an email back saying if that's what he wants. What else could I do ?

I gave him to August I knew my baby grandson was due in July as he told me in the February. It was his birthday and 2nd son's birthday same day. So I sent birthday cards, letter in his card and cheque,birth card and baby presents . The day after their birthday everything came back all unopened with his final vicious letter. The presents for the baby crushed. Luckily they where soft. And that was it zero contact.

That is my story and what happened. I know I have told this before many times. But it happened.

Others here have been estranged far longer than me but it still hurts them. It's a pain that never goes. You like you are ok them wham it hits you out of the blue. I call them wobbles. Like I think I am ok about my husband and find myself in tears a different sort of wobble.

I could quite easily have written my son an email pointing out all the things he has done as a son plus things that they could have done better raising my grandson's. But I would never do that as it's cruel and cowardly. 2 things I am not.

Before I moved here I existed where I had lived ,since my move I live my life to the full. Part of that was able to see my family every week instead of 3-4 times a year . Their choice I never expected to see them every week but they came . Still see my daughter and family every week unless they are on holiday.

There is no such thing as a perfect parent or perfect child. My son and daughter in law think they are perfect they are in for a rude awakening as my grandson's get older.

I always said to our children babies don't come with instructions. There is no reset button. We do the very best we can.

My dad and husband had awful parents and suffered in different ways. But both made sure their children never suffered in the same way.

My brother and me had loving, caring parents who gave us lots of attention. Yes they made mistakes but we would never have thrown them back in their faces. They did the best they could but we always knew we where loved and wanted.

Both my children know they are loved and wanted. We brought the children up the same. My son must hate me because this is not love, you don't do this to someone you love.

I know what it is to hate someone for decades my in laws. But my husband loved his parents didn't like them. But we never gave up on them . Even after my husband died I looked after his mom and she out lived her son by 11 years. I do not abandon people .

I could have taken the easy way out and put my mom in a home but didn't . She lived with me the last 18 months of her life. Even when the dementia turned her violent I still couldn't do it. Because she was my mom and I loved her. I looked after by myself. I am not making myself out to be perfect because I am not. But I have never taken the easy way out. I am loyal and caring to family and friends . When I love someone it would take something unforgivable to destroy that love. My daughter in law did just that. With one sentence FIL died to get away from MIL.

My husband died in agony unable to breath because of cancer she didn't even know him . He was 47 he didn't choice to die .

I don't hate my son or daughter in law. Don't want or need hate in my life had enough of that from 1975 until 2015 when my mother in law died. But I can never forgive either of them or ever trust my son again .

But he knows where I am if he decides he wants his mom back. I love him and my grandson's and miss them . My daughter in law is welcome as well.

This is my story. No one has the right to call me a liar or I must have done something wrong.

If you are reading this for the first time and need help I promise you there are people here who will help you. And understand what you are going through.

Well I will say it as it is. Mia and others, has dusrupted this thread as intended, and is enjoying it. None of us can deal with her complex needs or experiences. We were a bunch of grandparents, not abusers, estranged, giving each other support. what was so threatening about that. You needn't bother reporting me Mia I will do it myself.

Chewbacca

^By compromising, the positive consequence for this thread would be that Mia stops posting statistics and making people angry here.^

I don't think that anyone is angry; and it's unfair to allocate that emotion to posters. We're just frustrated and confused, but not angry.

Ah, yes, statistics. I'm more of this school of thought:

As former Prime Minister Benjamin Disraeli once said:

“There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.

?

The comments I am going to make are intended as a suggestion to try and bridge the chasm that has developed here. I'm not trying to boss anyone around or claim to have all the answers.

Can I suggest to everyone that if anyone posts in a thread in a way that you feel is unhelpful, you engage politely with that person about what you feel the specific problem is with their post. General complaints to the thread feel as though they are directed at everyone.

Mia You have come on here a few times now saying people are disrupting your thread and so feel you need to complain on here about it which then disrupts this thread. I can understand why, but repeatedly trying to solve a problem the same way when it isn't working just keeps us all in a downward spiral.
I acknowledge that you responded very positively to the post I made, for which I thank you, but only after you had reacted to the posts that you weren't happy about and I asked what was wrong with my post.

If we keep focussing on the negatives in each other's posts and ignoring the positives we are feeding the downward spiral. And that comment is to us all, myself included. I apologise if I have lost patience at times.

We are getting to a point where everyone is feeling attacked and unheard. Can we please all take a deep breath and look for a better way forwards?

Oh dear, things seem to be going around in circles. I hope you're ok allsorts. I hope we can all find a way to get past this so that everyone can get the support they need and also the opportunity to feel heard.

I wish I had a solution. It seems to be that someone starts a thread and has a view in mind of what that will be about but people interpret that in different ways. So someone feels they have something valid they want to say and another person thinks the contribution isn't adding to the discussion but disrupting it.

I'm as lost for words as you are DSL. I wish I knew the way forwards but I don't.

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear.

What in the world is going on.

What is happening. Why are some of you tearing each other apart.

I too am very sorry to see posters feel that they have no alternative but to leave, That's a disgraceful situation, denying people the safe haven that they need. In fact I find it absolutely shocking.

I really don't know what else to say. And believe me that's a first, it's not often I'm lost for words.

One thing for sure. I'm going nowhere. I want to see this thread safeguarded and protected, it's too valuable to let it fall apart. Smiles gave everyone a safe place where their voice could be heard, without judgement, without prejudice.

There is no such thing as a public forum where posters can be denied access, not unless they contravene forum rules as set down by gransnet.

NO ONE has the the right to deny anyone their say,

Stop being so precious.

If you want free speech yourself, then you have to allow others their free speech.

It's called democracy.........

Stay. Leave. They're just chat threads for heaven's sake!

Chewbacca

^By compromising, the positive consequence for this thread would be that Mia stops posting statistics and making people angry here.^

I don't think that anyone is angry; and it's unfair to allocate that emotion to posters. We're just frustrated and confused, but not angry.

As I earlier stated that I'm also frustrated and confused, so I understand.

A couple of people have said that they're stepping away from the thread and they don't like these discussions.

I respect and understand that and I have no problem leaving this thread, as I've stated several times.

The problem is...those same people that don't want me here went to that thread and started criticizing me, the post, and other people who came to respond.

I tried to compromise by saying I'd stay out of here and stop posting, if people who aren't the target audience of my thread, could refrain from posting there for only a week. People said no as they want to be able to go to any thread and say what they want.

There's a double standard here. People want this thread to be a certain way and have certain topics/discussions, okay, cool.

I started my own thread so that i wasn't intruding on the theme here and then people from here went to complain there and people just seem to be fine with that since they're friends.

It's unfair to tell someone to leave and take their discussion somewhere else and then follow them to somewhere else to keep complaining and being critical.

By compromising, the positive consequence for this thread would be that Mia stops posting statistics and making people angry here.

I don't think that anyone is angry; and it's unfair to allocate that emotion to posters. We're just frustrated and confused, but not angry.

Mandrake

MiaZadora81

derbyshirelass

Please go look for my response to your advice, posted at 06:18.

I also sent you a private message.

I'm not angry, please stop assigning that emotion to me. I am frustrated and confused, but I'm not angry.

You might not be angry but you are coming across that way.

I feel like I've tried to be supportive of you, even when others weren't, but also feel like you are not interested in hearing my perspective when my experience differs from yours . So I'm out.

Might I suggest that you consider whether it would be good to start your list of topics as individual threads? Each topic would probably get more direct responses that way. They're more likely to get lost in a more general thread.

I sent you a private message Mandrake.

I'm sorry you feel ignored and disregarded as that is not my intent.

Your experience here is totally valid.

Chewbacca

What consequences will there be if you don't get the something you asked for? That sounds a bit threatening really.

I apologize that it sounded negative/threatening as that was not my intent. Thank you for allowing me the opportunity to explain what I meant.

By consequences, I just mean whatever will happen as a result of a certain behavior/condition.

I joined weight watchers 11 years ago and I removed 50 pounds from by body, which I view as a positive consequence.

I saw on this thread that some people are displeased by my presence and what I'm posting, so I tried to offer a solution that would make everyone happy.

By compromising, the positive consequence for this thread would be that Mia stops posting statistics and making people angry here.

By not compromising, things stay as they are, which a lot of people view as a negative consequence. I happen to think it's a positive consequence that I keep posting.

I hope that makes sense. Not everyone has a problem with me being here, so each person's view on "positive/negative" depends on how they feel about that.

But the word consequences is almost exclusively used in a negative way, so I understand why the confusion happened.

I'm sorry you're feeling that way Whiff. And anyone else who is feeling the need to take a break. This has been a relaxed thread for a long time, so hopefully it will get back to that.

Sorry Allsorts you are leaving hopefully not for long.

You are now the third one of long times to leave .

Is that the aim of others to get the thread closed down. If it is think again.

I have had a pig of a day and I don't want to see anymore of friends I have made here leave because of other people's comments. Enough is enough.

I am an estranged parent I didn't do anything to warrant what my son has done. Nor the mauling I got from my daughter in law on a different website.

I found the original support thread when I had no where else to turn. Smiles listen and helped me and gave me the confidence to openly post . If I was reading the last few pages I would still have sent Smiles PMs but would have been to scared to openly post about what's happened to me.

How many people who need help have read over the last few days and have been to frighten of getting told they are liars and it's their own fault that they are estranged from their loved ones.

When they need a friendly ear there hasn't been one they can trust .

I am not going to say what has happened to to me today because some here will blame me. But I do have friends here who I trust and will tell them privately.

Hopefully tomorrow we won't be losing anymore people who really need this thread.

But I will still be here . And hopefully any in fighting will stop. If you can't say anything nice or throw people's words back at them then don't say anything at all.

Good manners,politeness and kindness don't cost anything. Treat people as you want to be treated.

MiaZadora81

derbyshirelass

Please go look for my response to your advice, posted at 06:18.

I also sent you a private message.

I'm not angry, please stop assigning that emotion to me. I am frustrated and confused, but I'm not angry.

You might not be angry but you are coming across that way.

I feel like I've tried to be supportive of you, even when others weren't, but also feel like you are not interested in hearing my perspective when my experience differs from yours . So I'm out.

Might I suggest that you consider whether it would be good to start your list of topics as individual threads? Each topic would probably get more direct responses that way. They're more likely to get lost in a more general thread.

Smileless2012

our ES's wife didn't thank us either Hilltop.

I remember when we borrowed a bit of money from the PIL. We always understood it to be a small loan. We got some extra money in and I called MIL to let her know and say we'd now like to pay them back. Her immediate reaction was to say that she needed to talk to her son about it, said goodbye, and called him at work. It was just another way she let me know I was invisible and inconsequential.

It seems you are all happy with this type of thread as it's become, but it's really depressed me, so I will leave it to those that enjoy it. I can't afford to get down about a support thread. So will check in a few weeks from now.

What consequences will there be if you don't get the something you asked for? That sounds a bit threatening really.