Friendship,advice and support if estrangement has affected your life.

Oh that's a shame Mia. I think there's been some very interesting conversations on the other thread today, but if you're feeling overwhelmed by any negativity you've seen there and are in need of support, we can chat about that here tomorrow if you like.

Ir's nearly midnight here so I'm off to bed. I think it's early evening where you are. Probably catch up with you tomorrow.

Sounds like pretty typical internet to me, Mia. :-)

Smileless2012

I think you've posted here by mistake Mia.

Smileless2012, No, i know here I am, thank you.

Unless you are saying I'm not welcome here? I thought this was a place where everyone could get support, but please correct me if I'm wrong and change the name of the thread.

I started another thread and people have gone to that thread in an attempt to derail the conversation and keep the same arguments going.

I keep trying to get things focused on the original questions, but the people who keep coming in don't care about the original question and just keep starting fights.

Like one person is so convinced that they're right, they've said that they know more than researchers at Cambridge University of all places...and I don't even think they went to Oxford. I mean that's fine if people think things that aren't true, I just don't know why they feel the need to go everywhere and keep stating those opinions.

So, I need support over here as I'm overwhelmed by all of the negativity developing in the other thread.

I don't think it's as simple as wealth and housing. I've noticed a lot of millenials aren't as content with the little things as much as we were. I'm not a Boomer, or even close, btw. I'm much younger than that. I'm at the very young end of Gen X. I also find that a lot of millennials have different priorities to buying houses (which is definitely harder for them to afford, relatively speaking, than in the boomer generation). Many millennials I know have spent their money on travel and experiences rather than save for a house in the same way as those of us who had our children much younger. To be honest, I think those are much better priorities and worth far more, even if it means settling into a house of their own is delayed.

I think there are a lot of reasons Millennials are less happy that are outside economics.

I think you've posted here by mistake Mia.

I found an article that says Millennials, such as myself, are actually the unhappiest age group in the UK and Boomers are the happiest...but why is that?

Let's look at the wealth distribution by age group in the UK....*Boomers own approximately 80% of private wealth in the UK, mostly centered in properties and pensions*

80%! Boomers are only about 20% of the population in the UK but hold 80% of private wealth, incredible!

How did the boomers do this? Are they smarter than everyone else?? More hard working?

No, not at all...the boomers actually had it really good and then made sure we didn't.

For example, In 1970, homebuyers could expect to pay £4,975 for a house in the UK and the average weekly wage was about £32. Math tells us that the average person would need 156 weeks of work to buy a house in 1970.

Let's look at 2018. In the UK, average weekly income was about £574 and the average house price was £226,906. Math tells us that the average person would need 395 weeks of work to buy a house, wow that's 2.5 times longer than back in 1970.

So, how did they do it? The most common way is that they bought dirt cheap houses in a time where a family of 4-5 could live comfortably on one moderate income that didn't require a college degree. Then they held on to their property and enjoyed awesome surges in real estate prices, all while telling the younger folks to just work harder.

There's a housing shortage in most western countries, primarily because if you build more houses, demand goes down, and prices go down, which means wealth goes down.

So even though more housing can be built, the people who control things, aka the folks with the money, don't want to build houses because they would get poorer and that's not fair .

Yet the millennials, who are far more educated than the older cohorts cant afford housing and we get told its because we're not working hard enough!

The birth rates are dropping bc millennials cant afford kids, and what are the boomers saying?? Just do what we did!

Well we can't!

It's like the boomers went to an apple orchard, picked all the apples, cut down the trees, and took all the tools and are now yelling at us to get our own apples.

How daft is this. A lovely and unexpected facetime this lunch time with DS who's in Aus. and being unable to have a 'phone conversation with my BF who lives in Portsmouth because we kept getting cut off?

Answers on a postcard please.

Afternoon everyone. Just back from the hairdressers and not it's time to catch up.

It's been good to read about your GN experiences Madgran as it's always to get a well written and balanced perspective.

Rambles are good but that said, I don't think there's anything rambling about yours or your posts Whiff. It's like being in the same room as someone and chatting on the 'phone; always friendly and more often than not entertaining.

Yes it is a shame hugs but sadly for as long as I've been on GN it's always been the case, not for everyone of course but I always think when things become unpleasant that it's another opportunity gone to waste.

just wondering if it might be worth getting your solicitor to tell his solicitor that unless they confirm receipt of all his paperwork by close of business tomorrow, the house is going back on the market.

I'm sorry to say I share in your suspicions although why some people feel the need to be deceitful and bloody awkward is beyond me.

What a carry on you had Whiff and finding mice in the property too. It's good to know it was all worth it. It nearly always is in the end so stick with it hugs.

Hope the rain has left you feeling refreshed DSL.

Mr. S. has just come in having been working at the flat all day and bought me some .

Oh heck Whiff what a palavar to sell your house. I really don't understand why people mess others around and lie to them, knowing full well what an expensive and stressful thing it all is.

hugshelp I feel for you. I had a nightmare selling my house. My first buyer came once by herself and once with her daughter. She sold her house and on the day we should have exchanged contracts she moved into rented accommodation and never told her solicitor she was pulling out. 2nd buyer came several times and came on the Sunday before exchanging contracts with her window man to measure for new windows. Not that the house needed them. My next day she pulled out. Week later got another buyer this was March 2019 everything was set to move in May their buyer was in agreement . Because of their solicitor moved in August. Luckily I still got my bungalow. The executors of the will stuck with me. The only thing they cleaned the bungalow but left the mice. Didn't tell me about them. In the kitchen and loft. Bungalow had been empty for over a year. Soon got rid of them.

But it was all worth it. But I found my buyers where all liars the ones who pulled out and the one who brought it in the end.

As far as solicitors and estate agents you have to keep pushing luckily I had a good solicitor and estate agent and they kept the pressure up on my eventual buyers solicitor.

Thanks DerbyshireLass.

It's a real shame there is this perceived division between EP and EAC.
I am EP and was for a while in the past EAC - for very specific and probably slightly unusual reasons.
I have had positive private conversations and exchanged support privately with both EP and EAC.

Slight chance of topic but I'm really stressed this morning. We put our house-moving paperwork in over 2 weeks ago. Over a week ago the EA agent rung and said our buyer had submitted all his and they wondered when they would hear from our solicitor.
On that basis, we chivvied our solicitor and booked a survey on the property we are buying and have spent £1200 so far. The buyer was supposed to come yesterday to 'measure up' but hasn't had a negative covid test. He's rearragned for tomorrow.

This morning we have learned that he has submitted no paperwork at all, has done nothing, and his brother contacted the EA midweek to say it wouldn't be in before the weekend. So he outright lied to them and now is putting it off until he's been back to the property. (He's been twice before). I strongly suspect he's having second thoughts but lied so that we would get things moving and secured the chain while he risked nothing.

Just having a rant really as I'll have to be nice tomorrow and hope I'm wrong.

Madgran, Whiff I enjoy the rambles.....?. And I always could talk for England. ??

Finally some rain. Bliss.

Madgran never boring. If you have read any of my rambles they are good for putting people to sleep.

I have been trolled on another forums thread by my own daughter in law that's how I found out about her writing about me on Reddit. It was on the thread I first joined in 2019. I have never made a secret of me being on GN nor my user name it's what my husband called me. I told both our children. He used to drop his briefcases in the porch and shout hello Whiff I would reply hello Hubs.

I choose to share my story because it helps me cope. I not only grief for my husband but my son and family. But at least they are still alive.

You can join in on a conversation on any thread and only write as much about yourself and what's happening or happened to you as you want.

We all have different ways to cope.

Here people understand what I am going through. So that helps me. You must only do what helps you . ?

I have never said on public GN threads what my position is in relation to estrangement ...other than I think I have mentioned a fear of estrangement! I could be a potential EP, potential EAC or potentially estranged from someone else in my life; I don't wish to say what my circumstances are!.

I have in the past said that I have in my professional life supported both EPs and EACs. I simply don't understand why the two "groups" can't just acknowledge each others pain and hurt, advise constructively and kindly (that doesn't necessarily mean just saying "there there" , that is not what I mean) within the context of the information someone gives about their situation.

Yes I have found myself discussed/referred to on various threads over the years by both EPs and EACs, not always kindly, don't really understand the motivations for that either! Often it relates to my desire for more thoughtful and careful expressions of views that help people to hear "hard messages" constructively. I have lost count of the "mocking sarcastic" references to that,( as happened recently!!) as well as the unpleasant assumptions about my personal situation! So be it, it's a shame when it happens but hey ho!

Anyway, waffling about what my own experience on GN threads has been is boring for everyone!!

Unkind references to EPs/EACs happens on quite a few threads! It's a shame!

People have free choice they can join any thread they like. If it's not for them they needn't join in the conversation. I am an estranged parent I have no experience of estranging any parent or parents in law. So I only talk about what has happened to me.

As much as I hated my in laws they were family and my husband loved his parents but didn't like them. He wasn't loved or given the attention he should have had. But he still loved them. But my family gave him all the things he didn't get from his parents.

We would never dream of not visiting them every week or once we had the children not letting them get to know eachother. Even after my husband's death I still visited his mom. Went with her to hospital appointments and made sure if she didn't want a certain thing doing then it wasn't done. She had me down as next of kin and I did everything I could to make her life easier as she got older. For all I hated her I couldn't abandon her. Without her I wouldn't have had my husband or our children. She out lived my husband by 11 years.

Both our children kept in touch with her and visited when they could. She refused to go too either of their weddings. In my hearing she told people she had no children or grandchildren. She tried to pass off her brother and his children as her son and grandchildren. I soon put people right. And still I didn't give up on her. Stayed with for 15 hours the last 2 days of her life. And wouldn't let the doctor's move her to a home. As she was comfortable and well looked after .

I am not saying this to make myself out to be a good person even though I am. But life is not black or white but shades of grey. We all have to decide what sort of a person we want to be and I am not the sort of person to turn my back on family or friends.

My upbringing was the opposite of my husband's. And not just my parents and brother but my whole extended family gave him what he had been missing in his life.

My mom and family gave my dad what he had been missing . He was malnourished as a child and beaten by his dad and stepmother. So much so he had a hole behind his right ear and was deaf in it. He took the beatings to protect his brother and half siblings. He only escape by joining the army before he was called up. My dad would never say he was abused as it made him sound like a victim he say they didn't spare the rod. His father used his belt or a switch. His stepmother her fists.

But my dad never laid a hand on me or my brother . My mom only smacked my brother once when she found him playing with friends in a huge bonfire that was due to be be that night. She didn't do it out of anger but fear as the whole lot could have collapsed on then.

As an estranged parent I will never understand why my son has done what he has or wrote what he did. And yes I do get annoyed if people say I know why he did it and ask what did I do to him. On my birthday we had a lovely time he talked about putting down paving in my garden but said it was ok as he was busy and would pay someone to do it. Then 4 days later I had a text saying I have sent you an email don't phone me. He said his sister one as well. I just sent an email back saying ok if that's what you want. What he wrote hurt me deeply. He wrote family history and assumed I reacted to things in a way he thought I did. But he doesn't know what I did as this was all things from when I lived 100+ miles away. He ended by saying he didn't like me me but loved me and to give him time.

Since I moved here in August 2019 he came every week with his to eldest for lunch and playtime. From the August until boxing day only saw my daughter in law 3 times boxing day was the last time. I knew from February they were expecting again and at the scan it was a boy due in July 2020.

August 2020 it was my son's birthday and middle son's birthday on the same day. They never let me know when my 3rd grandson with them was born or his name. But I sent birthday cards and a cheque plus a letter in his card just saying hope they are all right and both mother and baby where we'll. Put card and presents in for my new grandson. Everything came back the day after their birthday all unopened and the babies presents crushed. Luckily they where soft. Plus a letter full of hate and ended with I don't want your vindictive and manipulative behaviour anywhere never me or my family ever again zero contact.

I have never nor will I ever be vindictive and manipulative. That is not who I am. And yet people have said I must have done those things. And it hurts because I haven't. My son has not only cut me out if his life but all our side of the family.

So yes I do get upset when people assume I must have done something to make my son and daughter in law do what they have. And that I know why they did it.

I had a kind and loving son and my daughter in law has shown me great kindness over the years. How he estranged me was cruel and cowardly as he has always been able to talk to both my husband and me. He should have told me on my birthday he wouldn't see me again . Yes I would have been upset but if it was the sake of his marriage I would have understood.

Luckily my son and daughter in law love and cherish my grandson's they are their world. So I have no worries about the boys.

I don't hold out any hope my son will ever contact me again. I had to contact him in April as I finally after 34 years have a diagnosis what's wrong with me and I was born with it. Both my parents where carriers. Neither my brother or children have any symptoms but they could be carriers . So I text him to tell him I was sending a letter and instructions how to get tested if he wanted to. I sent a copy of the letter from my neurologist. Never heard anything from him.

Both my daughter and brother have asked to be tested hopefully my son has to.

This is my story as an estranged parent. But that's not all I am not an I not just a widow either. That's why I don't just talk about estrangement because I am more than that and my life is full of so much more. But this is my story . We all have our own.

I know what it's like to be discussed on other threads, for me by EAC, and it is unpleasant as you say vs.

I cannot understand why an EP here on GN would feel the need to hide a friendship with you, because you're an EAC. I have a very good friendship with an EAC I met here and neither of us have ever felt the need to hide our friendship away.

Over the years I have happily interacted with EAC with respect, understanding and sympathy, so agree that respect along with the other two are important.

It matters not to me, whether someone has been estranged or is the estranger. I respond to what they post, and I know that support has been given to EAC who have posted here looking for it.

Over the years the title of this thread and it's place on GN has changed, and it's my belief that a great deal of effort has gone into ensuring that it is for everyone who wishes to share here.

It wont suit everyone and yes, those who post here are predominantly EP's but EAC have posted here too, as well as others who don't have estrangement in their families and when they post for the first time, they are always welcomed.

Child abuse experts have, generally, studied and worked with abuse victims for many years to gain their knowledge of the subject.

It's a complicated thing and not every estrangement involves it anyway.

Everyone has a different estrangement story to tell, whatever side of the fence they are.

Arguments start when one poster tells others that they don't understand or that they must have been abusive in some way.

That follows the assumption that EACs are always truthful with right on their side.

Life isn't that simple. ?

We are estranged parents, there is no discussion of abuse, none if us are abusers, we do not want to address it, we are not qualified to deal with it. It is for friendly support. There are other threads that deal with that. I thought it best to put that out.

I am going to leave this thread. I don't want people who need support to feel they can't get it.

But guys, you really have to stop discussing the EAC that are here on gransnet on these threads. It has happened to me several times and I try to ignore it but its not easy.

I know some say these threads are for everyone, but it clearly isn't how all estranged parents feel.

It would be so nice if we could all show each other a little more respect as I am so appreciative of the friends made on this forum, both EAC and EP...

Yes I have EP friends made here and we basically hid that because the EP were worried they would be ostracised by getting on with me.

How awful is that

We can all choose to be better to each other

It takes 2 to have an argument, please remember that

I am going to take a small break away from this thread. Catch up with you all at a later date. Take care and stay safe.

The downside of rain followed by another hot day = awful humidity.

I think the title is good and inclusive.

Glad it's cooled down a bit, hope to get some sleep tonight. Wouldn't mind a rain shower shower to save watering the plants, I don't touch the lawns. Hope all doing well too.

Well TBF the title is rather long Hilltop but I think Whiff did well.

The first of these new threads had a rather different OP and I was asked to leave it to estranged parents so I am glad it is open to all again.

It's good to have a place for advice and support

I think it's a good title too