Friendship,advice and support if estrangement has affected your life.

We have discussed it and, unless the children feel strongly otherwise, we have decided not to have funeral services. Just an informal family gathering at home. Estranged family will be informed after things have settled down (probably 2-4 weeks).

You all deserve to have been treated so very much better than you have. I just hope that the saying "what goes around, comes around" is true and that karma rules.

Chewbacca, one could say they get natural consequences when they are on the outer if someone close dies.

Pleased you’ve made a good move, Whiff.

Thanks, Hugs, think my unease is because the funeral is of the generation below and there will be the cousins and their families of which my daughter would be with..

Understand what you mean DSL, let’s hope we can get through it ok.

Chewbacca and Mandrake, wouldn’t want my daughter to go through this and don’t seek it.
Although understand why you say that and feel just deserts should be metered out to my SIL’s family as they lack any compassion and can’t help but feel they have a hand in this very sorry and distressing situation.

Smiles wondered how you’d feel if your son wanted to get in touch?

Dotcom if my son wanted to get in touch my first thought would be what does he want and why now? If he did I would see him but it would have to be in my home and alone . He has some explaining to do. I will never trust him again or forgive him or my daughter in law . If he did want a relationship it would never be the same and I will never visit there home . Not after what my daughter in law wrote about my visits to their house. If he did want to speak to my first question would be what's my grandson's name and date of birth. He's my 3rd grandson with them only know he was due in July 2020. But I have given him a name as I can't bear to think of him without one. Both his brothers look alike so I imagine he does to.

But I don't ever expect him to get in touch with me ever again. And I have no need to ever contact him. He wanted zero contact he's got his wish. Hope his happy.

I can't imagine feeling anything other than panic stricken Dotcom.

When Mr. S. said he'd sent an email 2 after days after my mum died, I went straight into panic mode. Shaking, feeling physically sick and on the verge of tears. I got Mr. S. to read it first, to make sure there was nothing nasty in it.

There wasn't but I really didn't want to respond. After 7 years of nothing, for me it was an invasion of my life, my privacy that he sent it, and what was the point? I emailed him back, thanked him for his condolences, saying they were appreciated; I lied.

Mum lived about 10 doors down the road from them. Only saw her eldest GGC twice and never saw the youngest, but because their close friends lived next door, she'd see them go past her house and hear them playing in the back garden.

I'd never thought if it like that Mandrake but you make a very valid point. Their estrangement of us does leave them on the outside when someone dies, especially if it's the EAC GP they spent much of their own childhood with, or of course their parent.

Mr. S. and I will have funeral services, out faith means that that's important to us but when that isn't a consideration, I can see why simpler arrangements are becoming so popular and that when there is estrangement in a family, they avoid a lot of potential upset and increased distress.

Thanks Whiff and Smiles, for replying.
Hope I’ve not opened old wounds.

Can’t understand how they can live their lives knowing what pain they’ve caused..

Must buck up and enjoy the day and take pleasure in small things.
Good wishes to you all.
Dot?

Dotcom hasn't opened old wounds for me . Because I talk about how I feel here and in real life but not with my family. I can deal with it. Have wobbles when it gets to much. But I am a mom and nannie. I am lucky I get to spend time with my daughter and family. My grandson's are close in ages so seeing my 2 grandson's I see what their cousins are like who are roughly the same age. My daughter's 2 are 4.5 and 20 months my son's are 5.75, 4 next month and 2.

Not at all Dotcom. These support threads have been a life saver for me over the years.

A place to talk about things that are sometimes just to difficult to say to others, apart from Mr. S. of course. We can and do say anything and everything to one another here, because we know that we're understood and wont be judged for sharing what to those who haven't had to live with this, must seem rather odd to hear parents say what they think of and feel about their own child.

Enjoy your day too. It's raining here again but we're at our lodge so don't care.

People often have the definition of karma wrong.

It’s not about this life. It’s about the next life.

www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/karma

My goodness but this thread moves fast. So many good points raised and so much to think about. My brain is whirring away.

Yesterday my youngest son and partner took me out for a belated birthday lunch. We had a lovely time and ended up having a real heart to heart about the situation with my eldest son and DIL.

A quick recap on where we stand....

We are sort of reconciled but I always feel I'm skating on thin ice. It's been over 4 weeks again without any meaningful contact. It is my sons birthday next week, DILs parents are still here and they will of course be included in any birthday celebrations. So far I have no idea whether or not I will see him. It has been over a year since the two brothers have seen each other. They live approx 15 mins away from each other.

My youngest son has tried repeatedly to see his big brother but his efforts have been rejected. My eldest son repeatedly sidelines his birth family and shuts us out.

Yesterday my youngest son expressed how disappointed he was and that he was "going to give it one more go". He is going to invite his brother out for a birthday trip to the cinema but he said he fully admitted he expected to be fobbed off yet again. He also admitted he has been experiencing anxiety attacks. He's happy with his partner, his work and his life. No debts or financial worries.

I am so angry with my eldest son. It's bad enough that I have suffered anxiety as a result of his treatment of me but to realise that it's also affecting my youngest son has really infuriated me.

I am going to just back right off, just step right back. I am not going to give him any more "head space". I will send him a birthday card with a gift voucher, and then wait and see. I will not ask to see him, I will not grovel. At some point they will no doubt invite themselves round as if everything in the garden is rosy. Well it's not .......

I am just so angry and so fed up with the way we are being treated. I am so tempted to throw in the towel.

I made a solemn promise to my husband "to look after the boys". I have done so, to the best of my ability, and this is the thanks I get. Heartache and pain. As I write I have tears streaming down my face. I know I feel low anyway in the run up to the anniversary of my husbands death but seeing what is happening to my youngest son has just about finished me off.

Oh well I will just have to see how things pan out. Buyers mortgage valuation tomorrow. ?. Just get the house sale done and dusted and take it from there.

Both the house sale and the relationship between the two brothers are beyond my control. For both scenarios it's just a waiting game.

In the past DIL has repeatedly tried to bad mouth my side of the family, making sly digs and sneering comments, trying to cause friction, upsetting several members of my family. For the most part my family have ignored her and have let things slide for my sake but now, having to learn how my youngest son is now experiencing anxiety has really got to me.

For now I'm just going to sit on my hands and do and say nothing. Just concentrate of getting the house sale out of the way first and then deal with my son and DIL. I have told my youngest son and partner, they have my full support, they do not need to keep trying with his brother for my sake. Just let go and focus on their own lives. Sad, unbelievably sad. You never think it can come to this but as our collective stories show, it does happen and only too frequently.

Do our EACs have any idea of the pain and anguish they inflict, not just on their parents but also on their siblings who also love them and who are so hurt and devastated by the way they too have been tossed aside. I hate to see my youngest son so hurt and confused and to know it's making him ill is just about more than I can bear.

One day my eldest might wake up and see the wreckage he has caused but I fear it will be too late. The damage will be too great to repair. He will reap what he has sown.

I know how you feel DSL I used to get more upset about the one I did see, he like your son tried so hard, is a loving person, no argument between them, just distanced despite efforts from him to see each other. I don’t think they will speak again now, that makes me sad for him. He did nothing wrong. He says he won’t waste his life worrying, but inside I know it hurts him. It is very far reaching estrangement.

I feel exactly the same Smileless when contact gets through.

Like other scenarios I now have a plan in place.

I don't very often talk about my mother with my children but sometimes it comes up. They mostly talk about how they didn't care when we estranged but how they feel guilty about that.

I tell them they should never feel guilty it was up to their grandmother to make them feel loved and wanted and she didn't achieve that, she achieved the opposite.

I've apologised for all the times I held them to my mother's standards of behaviour and how hard I was on them because my mother said they were too loud, too naughty or too silly.

They were just being children.

They are great kids and one by one becoming lovely adults. She has missed out on so much.

Allsorts. Its just awful isn't, having to watch the innocent sibling suffer when they have done nothing wrong, I can't stop crying this morning. Must pull myself together and just get on with the day.

I'm going out this evening to the cinema see "Elvis" with a friend. Need to Perk up before then. Nice to have something nice planned, take my mind of things a bit.

The sun is coming out, going to walk to the little shop then maybe have a little potter in the garden. Get some fresh air and try and cheer myself up.

Summerlove

People often have the definition of karma wrong.

It’s not about this life. It’s about the next life.

www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/karma

Goodness knows what I must have done in a past life to deserve my abusive family members.

I must have axe murdered an entire village

Sorry you’re not feeling so good DSL and yes it’s awful to see the pain the siblings feel..my son was so despondent.
Enjoy Elvis film.

Thinking of you all.
?

Family visit today

Feels like a storm is brewing, getting a headache already.

House is tidy, that's one benefit of not being at work for the holidays lol

Have a good day all

DerbyshireLass I am sorry about your youngest son . Must very hard for him and his girlfriend. They have coped with this on their own not wanting to upset you that shows how much they love and care for you. And that love is so precious.

You have done the best you can looking after the boys as your husband wanted. But it's cost you and your younger son your health. And I am sure your husband wouldn't want that. If he's like my husband was he would be fuming. And he would fight dragons for you like my husband.

The situation is different between my son and his sister. My daughter and daughter in law never got on when they first met. My daughter in law said something can't remember what but it was a dig at my daughter so she responded in kind. This was in 2005 a year after my husband died.

Even though both couples lived about a hour from eachother they never socialised unless I was up for a visit and we all went out together. They all behaved themselves. But when I visited my son and daughter in law in their home she would make sly comments about my daughter which I ignored. All this time I lived 100+ miles away and only saw them 3-4 times a year.

My daughter didn't have anything to do with them for a couple of years before the emails to me and her in 2020. I didn't ask it was between them and I never interfered. But when she received the email she washed her hands of him because he hurt me so much.

My brother is deeply hurt my son has cut him out of his life and has hurt me. He wanted to go round and sort him out but I told him no. He was to stay out of it . My brother was there for both the children after their dad died especially my son as he was 16.

Like me your son has tried to protect you like my daughter has done . I have learnt a lot about the lies he has told me over the years. My daughter and brother had kept things from me for years . Note to anyone don't plaster things on Facebook if you don't want to be found out.

With the your husband's anniversary so close it makes everything so much harder. I can't say it will get easier as the years go by as it hasn't for me. The lost gets worse you just cope better. I often wonder if my son ever thinks about his dad and I hope he has told his sons about him .

Going to see the film will give you a few hours peace and escape from everyday things. And hopefully you will be singing all the songs when you come out.

You need to concentrate on yourself and your son and girlfriend. You need eachother. ??❤️

I was just thinking because, someone said to me the other day that some people do not apologise but they do show it in how they interact with you.

I would have accepted that from my mother.

She wanted reasons, I gave her reasons.

She denied and ignored them.

I walked away.

For a long time I thought I needed her to apologise and be accountable for her behaviour. Yet, I read every message she sent looking for evidence of change.

I think I would have accepted a change in behaviour as all I needed to try to heal things but the messages were all just more of the same.

I realise now that while I find it easy to apologise and hold myself accountable, others don't or just can't do it.

But they can show it. They can move forward with respect and kindness.

If they can't to do that then possibly they are a lost cause. Best avoided.

Thanks Whiff, Dotcom, and Allsorts.

To be honest I'm feeling quite murderous now. I will be interested to see what support I get from eldest son on the actual anniversary of my husbands death. If the past is anything to go by then it will be non existent.

In the past he has made no attempt to "honour the day" he has just completely ignored it, or if he has thought about his father then he certainly hasn't said anything to me. Not a Word. Other families draw together and commemorate the day and support each other.

On the one occasion when I had the temerity to text him and mention the anniversary I just got a terse reply "yes I know". Since then nothing, l let the years slip by and keep my mouth shut, well not anymore. So I'm waiting. if he lets this one slip by then I'm ready to let him have it because frankly I have had enough.

I do feel as if I'm fast approaching crunch time with him, I have let things ride far too long. Seeing my younger son so despondent and knowing he too is experiencing anxiety caused by his brothers behaviour is the final straw. I put up with his insolence, selfishness and cruelty but I wont continue to stand by and watch him hurt and humiliate his brother who has done nothing to warrant such callous treatment.

I haven't tried to intervene or speak out, I kept hoping the situation would resolve itself, that he would see the light and realise what he is throwing away. However, I don't think it's going to happen any time soon, if at all. I can't believe he is so blind, so stupid. Once I'm gone then his brother is all he will have left. How dumb can you get.

As I said I'm going to just sit on my hands for now but I'm watching and waiting. And I will speak up, when I'm good and ready.

Derbyshirelass what if he is honouring the day in his own way?

I understand your feelings but is it worth strengthening the wedge between you if you are wrong about that? Or risk strengthening it between siblings?

Sorry I have to go, hope your day gets better

In some ways DSL you feel the pain more for the way others in your life have been affected by your EAC, or the on off relationship you have with yours.

I'll never forget those times I literally held Mr. S. in my arms as he wept, my heart broke for him. I'm so sorry that your DS is being affected so badly. Bless his kind and loving heart for being prepared to give it another go.

We're convinced that the only reason DS is still in touch with his brother is because he lives in Aus., and I wouldn't be at all surprised if the bulk of their contact takes place when she isn't around.

really is the green eyed monster isn't it, and the monster that ripped our family apart.

Enjoy the film. We watched Mission Impossible 1 last night and for me trying to follow what was going on was a mission I found impossible. Still, always watching Tom Cruise is always a joy.

If it's us they don't want in their lives, way make their siblings suffer too Allsorts.

So this is where we are

DL - sorry you are feeling that way. At times adult kids can drive us to distraction. Thankfully, it's my stepson doing it to us, at least that way, I haven't got the personal pain, just anger at the stress he causes my DH. Hope everything resolves itself soon.?

Smileless - looks lovely. Have you got a spare room? `lol ?

VS. have no fear I am not about to indulge my inner toddler by letting rip. I have not spent years holding my tongue for nothing. However, I am done with pussyfooting around and I am no longer prepared to be trampled on, nor will I watch my eldest son bully his brother.

Do I not have a right to be allowed to mourn my husband without being made to feel guilty. My son has no business in snapping at me when I struggle to cope with anniversaries. His arrogance and impatience with my grief is neither kind nor loving. He would not treat a friend or work colleague with such contemptuous disregard for their feelings so why does he think it's ok to treat family, especially his mother, in such a fashion.
Well it's not ok, not any more,

For years I have given him the benefit of the doubt, thinking perhaps he WAS honouring his fathers memory in his own way so I said nothing. Sadly, now I know better. His birth family, dead or alive, are no longer important him.

So please don't suggest I am in danger of strengthening the wedge between us, or between two brothers. He has put the wedge there, not me, not his brother. We have bent over backwards trying to maintain peace and harmony, it is my eldest son and DIL (mainly my DIL) who are hell bent on destroying our family.

I am not prepared to put up with the nonsense any more. I certainly am not going to sit back and watch my son humiliate his brother and make him ill. I will take action and if my eldest son and DIL estrange me as a result then so be it.

Smiles.....how awful for you to watch poor MR S reduced to tears like that. How terrible for both of you. In many ways I'm glad my husband is no longer here to see what has happened to his adored eldest son, he would be distraught.