Friendship,advice and support if estrangement has affected your life.

ISeethruit......your insistence that EVERYONE who has been estranged is somehow culpable in their estrangement is not only muddleheaded, it is also extremely upsetting and offensive to those who ARE blameless.

You are negating their experiences and calling them liars. I don't see much evidence of your "humility" in that.

As I said in my last post, a little kindness goes a long way......

Smiles created this thread as a safe space where people could confide in each other, unburden their hearts and find support and friendship. It is not and was never meant to be a place where people are (mis) judged and made to feel like failures.

I hope you realise that your harsh sentiments and judgemental remarks might be deterring people who really need the support and fellowship of this thread. They may not be posting but there are many who do read along and who take a small measure of comfort in knowing they are not alone.

This thread has been a lifeline for me and a guiding light through what was a very dark period of my life.

Please don't ruin it.

I understand very clearly what each one of you are saying who’s responded to my posts and I disagree with everyone here who believes they had absolutely no part in their estrangements, because my professional experience over 35 years showed me otherwise.

To everyone who believes they have no personal responsibility in your loved one’s pain, you will never find healing with them. If that’s where you want to stay, it’s certainly your choice to remain there.

You can be right or you can help to bring healing to your relationships by exploring your contributions to the estrangements. There’s no other way. End of my communications here and I won’t be reading any further posts from anyone.

Iseethruit by your post you haven't listened to a word other posters have said in response to yours.

You are not worth engaging with as it's plan to see you do not understand what we are going through and only see us as to blame for what's happened to us.

There are other threads on the Estrangement forum with others that share you views. You would be better engaging with them .

Whiff,

I don’t bring religion here by offering a prayer for reconciliation that I know has helped others and can help people here who want to use the prayer. Prayer and religion are two very different subjects. I said nothing about religion.

I will talk about my spiritual experience here as it relates to healing my relationships. If it doesn’t fit for you, then simply avoid reading my posts. I won’t be shut down by someone being offended by my spirituality as it’s a huge part of me. There will be others here that will find it enormously helpful. I didn’t ask anyone to accept it as their own, but rather offered the prayer if anyone wants to use it for their benefit and the benefit of others.

I am a retired psychotherapist & marriage and family counselor, so I’m not looking for clients here.

My estrangement from the people I love and the pain it’s causing me is just as real as anyone else’s here.

I hoped for a group of individuals who were interested in taking some responsibility for their part in the estranged relationships of their lives, rather than believing it’s entirely the fault of their family members. That’s where all healing begins.

Believing you are a victim because someone shares that both sides have some responsibility, is not helpful to your healing process or the healing of your estranged relationships.

It’s a fact of life and not an attitude on my part that people don’t leave loving relationships unless they’re experiencing some unmet needs in it. Those unmet needs create pain and it can be in the form of something said or done even unintentionally and it can also be in the form of something they needed to hear or some action taken that they failed to receive from their loved one. Sometimes it’s too many differences in values. It still causes unmet needs and pain. Often people hold their pain for a long time and say nothing because they fear the other won’t take responsibility for anything or apologize for the pain they’ve caused knowingly or unknowingly, which is further wounding to them. It happens a lot and relationships can’t be healed that way.

What is true about relationships is that our relationships work because of the people in them and fail because of the people in them - and the failure is never entirely on one person anymore than it working well is the sole responsibility of one person. Both people contribute to pain and happiness in a multitude of ways.

One person may hold more responsibility than the other for breakdowns, but no one is ever entirely without responsibility.

I will continue sharing what I know is the truth in these matters. I realize people don’t always want to hear the truth.

If you feel you don’t want or need counseling that’s your choice. I’m not here to provide that service to anyone.

Counseling is for those who have the insight to realize their problems in relationships do involve them, whether they know how or not. Making the unconscious become conscious has been my life’s work to bring healing to individuals, couples and families. I share what I’ve learned to help and not to offend.

I am conscious and humble enough to see my faults and don’t pretend to be flawless. I won’t bring more pain to the people I love by taking no personal responsibility for anything. I will ask questions about how they believe I hurt them and listen to their pain, rather than shut them out by saying the fault is all theirs. I know healing and restoration will never occur otherwise.
I hope for the same from them because they’ve also hurt me.

I would like to know what a professional counsellor would gain by coming on this thread. I will not go into it but as one who has experience of counselling, there was no such thing as just counselling on estrangement. Also I think to prejudge a situation or a person is certainly not done. You have to respect people, it doesn’t always take two, I always think that’s a silly statement, it has no relevance, everyday people are victims of some crime or other by people unknown.

Iseethruit I find your post very naive tbh if you think that "people don't walk away from previously loving relationships. They leave because they have been hurt in some way"
Lots of marriages end because one partner gets bored and is tempted by pastures new, not the fault of wronged party. Sometimes AC walk away because they are influenced by third parties as many posters on here can testify, again not the fault of the wronged party.
Would you say to a child , who has walked away from violent, neglectful and abusive parents that they must be equally to blame? I don't think so, Not all estranged adult children share the blame and neither do all estranged parents.

Oh dear.........

ISeethruit.....you may have several years of professional experience but I'm afraid you are really barking up the wrong tree if you seriously believe that estrangement has to always be a two way street and that those who have been estranged have to be culpable.

If you genuinely believe that a victim of estrangement cannot be blameless and if you insist on their "guilt" then you are not only very blinkered but you are also wilfully negating their experiences. Essentially you are implying that they are liars. That is very offensive.

It is also very evident that you have no understanding of malevolent narcissism. I suggest you take a close look at some high profile narcissists who have been in the news recently, their marriages and family relationships. Amber Heard and Meghan Markle are two such classic examples.

Please be aware of just how hurtful and disrespectful your remarks are. Many of the posters on this thread are in great emotional pain and turmoil, suffering from the grief and heartache of estrangement, genuinely at a loss to know what has gone so horribly wrong,

You cavalier attitude towards their suffering is unspeakably callous and cruel. Instead of insisting that you are right and that your (somewhat limited) professional experience gives you the ability to see in to someone's soul I think you would do well to remember that a little kindness and compassion would not go amiss.

Oh dear TBH I was shocked in your last post Icanseethruit that you have said "People don't walk away from previously loving relationships for no reason" as that suggests that any relationship walked away from cannot have ever have been loving.

You are wrong, and I don't say that just based on my personal experience but the 9.5 years I have spent here on GN, sharing with and listening to other EP's, as well as other on line groups for EP's.

Unfortunately that has on occasion been said to EP's here on GN over the years, and not by way of offering help and support, but to blame parents for their adult children estranging them.

I assume that your decades of 'professional experience' has made you aware of narcissism, emotional abuse and coercive control. You must then be aware of how once mutually loving and happy relationships, can be destroyed by the introduction of a third party, and for us here on this thread when that's been the case, the third party has been the adult child's partner/husband/wife.

I appreciate that you are new to this thread and also new to GN so suggest that you take the time to read through all 9 pages and perhaps take a look at one or two of the numerous support threads that came before this one.

There is a very clear thread that runs through the vast majority of posters shared experiences, and that is that the once close, loving and healthy relationship they shared with their AC changed and was eventually destroyed by that AC's partner.

Even for those who are not fully estranged, the reason for the drastic changes in their relationships is the same.

I of course realise that this is not always the case, and you are of course welcome to offer your view based on your personal experience of being estranged/living with estrangement, but please don't try and counsel us here.

Some have tried counselling with varying degrees of success but when it is wanted it is asked for.

Iseethruit are you a genuine estranged mom or are you a counselor looking for customers . I for one don't want or need counseling.

Also people do walk away from loving relationship. And hate the fact you are blaming us for what our children's have done.

This is not what Smiles set the thread up for in the first place .

You are saying we are to blame for our children walking away.

We are not and stop saying that . You are not helping anyone with your attitude.

We all welcomed here but you seem to only want to blame us. If that's your game find other victims not us.

I

My perspective will be very different from those here because I have several decades of professional experience helping couples and families repair their relationships.

Though people may not have seen an estrangement coming, and believe they has no part in it, as I’ve counseled several thousand people, I never found even one person who contributed nothing to the estrangement.

In therapy, working with those affected by the rifts it usually takes people a few months to get to the place where they can understand their part, which is out of their awareness. Their part is known by their family members and often times they haven’t spoken anything about it, but rather held things inside of them for a long time. It’s what’s been largely or entirely unspoken that leads to these cut offs. After all no one can resolve a problem that remains unexpressed.

Though, my professional experience has been such to work with people in these ways, I am humble to say I have blind spots just like everyone else and know that I too in some way that I’m unaware of now contributed to the estrangements.

No relationship is ever healed without both sides listening to one another’s grievances and taking responsibility to make the requested changes needed to repair the relationship.

To believe I am blameless will only further the rift and do nothing to allow healing to occur. Somewhere along the way I’ve caused hurt that I’m not aware of - just as each of you here has done.

There are no perfect parents and no perfect children. Therefore, looking for the truth of my part is what I choose to do, so that my family can be restored.

People don’t walk away from previously loving relationships for no reason. They leave because they’ve been hurt some way.

Welcome Iseethruit - love the name.

You have come to the right place here. I felt so down in the dumps and often that I am the only person in the world going through this terrible estrangement. But no, everyone on this wonderful site has helped me to get through some terrible days. To realise that it is just not my fault and to embrace each day has been vital to me.

Catch up with you all later.

Like you Whiff I didn't see the estrangement coming, everything was good until the day I was told to F** off* by my s.i.l, a s.i.l I thought I got on well with. It was all down to jealousy from my GD stepdad, no other reason for it.

Iseethruit just read your post again. While I respect people of all faiths and what gives them comfort I am glad it helps them with their lives.

But I am an atheist and have been since my early teens. I would never dream of imposing my views on other people.

Telling someone by saying a prayer can work miracles, heal and repair relationships. Sorry but you are going to far.

No one else here who has a faith would dream of pushing their religious beliefs on to anyone else. I would ask in any further posts you keep religion out of them.

If this request has offended you I won't apologise for it as it's the way I feel.

ISeethruit. I am afraid I concur with Whiff. I too find the suggestion that I am in some way partly responsible for what has happened within our family very hurtful. In our case estrangement is most definitely not a two way street.

Quite simply I have a DIL who is a raging narcissist and who has deliberately set out to alienate my son from his family so that she can control and manipulate him.

I am glad you find that your faith sustains you but please don't expect me to "turn the other cheek" and assume a level of blame for the way my family has been ripped apart.

We are blameless.

Iseethruit while I understand how hard estrangement is. I can't agree with you saying rifts in relationships involve both people.To heal them each person must take responsibility for their part and resolve to make to make improvements,listen to eachother's requests for changes , and begin a new path together. And the rest of the paragraph.

I didn't do anything to make my son turn his back on me. The fault is his and his alone. I didn't do anything in any shape or form to cause the estrangement. He came to see me after work on my birthday we had a lovely time. Because of Covid rules we had to sit apart and couldn't touch. He talked about putting some paving down in my garden to make it safer for me. I have falls. When he left he said I love you mom will keep in touch and see you again soon. Then 4 days later a text saying I have sent you an email don't contact me. He said he had sent one to his sister as well. And that was it . The email was full of accusations , assumptions ,lies and he rewrote family history. He ended with I don't like you mom but love you give me some time . I sent an email back saying if that's what you want .

They where expecting their 3rd son in July. In August it was his and middle son's birthday the same day so I sent cards for them both out a letter in my son's card and cheque for their birthday in the letter said how the money was to be spilt up plus some for my eldest grandson as I always give something to siblings when a new baby arrives. Plus card and presents for my new grandson. The day after their birthday everything can back all unopened and my baby grandsons presents where crushed as if someone had take then and crushed them in their hands luckily they where soft. And a vile letter. Calling me names and ending with I don't want your vindictive and manipulative behaviour anywhere never me or my family ever again zero contact.

Two things I never thought my son would be but he has shown himself to be cruel and cowardly. He was brought up with lots of love and attention and good family values. Exactly the same as his sister. He hasn't just turned his back on me but all over side of the family. My daughter and daughter in law never got on from their first meeting. But when we where all together as a family they got on for my sake . But alone my daughter never made any nasty comments about her sister in law. But my daughter in law was forever making snide comments about my daughter when I was with them but I ignored them.

It will be 3 years next month since I moved closer to live by them. Even though both my children wanted me to live closer for years I couldn't move . My husband died in 2004 had both parents and mother in law to look after. Mom was the last to die in 2017. Then I had no one dependent on me anymore. And put my house on the market in 2018. Took a while to sell as 2 buyers pulled out. From when I got her in August 2019 I saw my son and his 2 eldest every week usually a Friday they came for lunch and had about 4 hours with me. This latest until March 2020 when Covid hit. But still talked ,text,had photos and videos. As far as I was concerned everything was fine. Not idea what was going to happen. Came out of the blue.

Hence my disagreeing with your paragraph I did nothing wrong. All I have ever done is love my son and loved my daughter in law. They have been together since they where 17 both 35 this year. I welcomed my daughter in law into our family and my parents and brother and family treated her well and loved her.

There isn't fault on both sides . To assume that is the case is wrong. I know of others like me who had no idea estrangement was going to happen.

You may done or said something for your estrangement that's why you wrote that paragraph. But don't say all estranged parents did something to cause theirs.

Here we don't blame eachother for what has been done to us. And do not assume we brought it upon ourselves. To do so is very hurtful and that's not what we do.

Thanks, DerbyshireLass & Allsorts! I feel heard and understood here by everyone.

In my faith in God, I still hope and pray for healing and reconciliations. I've taken to saying the Ho'Oponopono prayer for my estranged family members. If you aren't familiar with it, the prayer is an ancient Hawaiian prayer that means to correct and to make right - for both people. If you aren't familiar with it here it is for anyone who wants to use it.

Name,
I love you.
I'm sorry.
Please forgive me.
Thank you.
I love you.

The prayer can be used twice each day for a multitude of life's challenges, including healing our relationships, bodies, souls, finances, etc.

Many who have used it report miracles in their lives and I certainly believe it will be a miracle to heal and restore these relationships.

I know that rifts in relationships involve both people. To heal them each person must take responsibility for their part and resolve to make improvements, listen to each other's requests for changes, and begin a new path together. It can absolutely be done if both people are willing. Many times estrangements come about because of misinterpretations, misunderstandings and false assumptions. It takes active communication skills to sort through all of these departures from truth.

Can anyone tell me how to make the posting process easier? I'm finding I have to login multiple times to get each post submitted.

Love the picture Whiff

In a way DSL it’s harder for you as it the walking on eggshells that’s so tough, but you never can say never, your son could change, people do. Meanwhile you have made a good life for yourself and it will be better I’m sure with the house move. You are doing well.
Whiff, some people do have magic fingers, the beautiful things they make.

One of my craft group sent this thought it might appeal to any crafter's .

Hello ISeethruit. Welcome. You are with friends now and I'm sure you will find the comfort and support you need.

I would describe myself as semi estranged. I do see my son and DIL now and again

There was a period of full estrangement last year. My son eventually offered an olive branch which I accepted.

No apologies or explanations for the estrangement of course. I never allude to it but it's there, it's created a gulf which cannot be crossed.

Estrangement eats away at you, destroying confidence and equilibrium. It's a loss of innocence. Once the unthinkable happens you can never forget.

A bell once rung, cannot be unrung.

I've seen a dark side to my son and I can't unsee it. I will never be able to relax again, never be able to trust again. I am always waiting for the other shoe to drop. I am always hyper vigilent now, always walking on eggshells. The worst part is the estrangement has caused a rift between my two sons.......

I've no idea if they can build a bridge and repair their relationship. I am in the unenviable position of being piggy in the middle.

So whilst in many ways I am lucky in that contact has been resumed its not easy. My confidence has been destroyed and I am having to fight to rebuild it. I too still have wobbles.

All we can do is ride out the bad days. .

Iseeethruit, welcome, it's a shame you are in this position, as we all are, but here you know you are not alone. I do have bad wobbles, like Whiff just had, in my case they last a couple of days and I feel truly awful. It's a compete life changer when your family cut you off. It's a lowly place. Been a long time for me and too much has happened to have a reationahip now, so the wobbles are more for what might have been,

Iseethruit if it wasn't for the kindness here from Smiles and everyone else I wouldn't be as I am. Because I can say exactly how I feel and know I am heard when I can't talk to my family or friends . But here we are all feeling the same . I means a lot that I have a place I feel safe. It's only been 2 years for me . But others it's been much longer.

I can't see that I will ever see my son again or my 3 grandson's ever again. I gave up hope when he sent the presents and cards back all unopened with his letter . His final sentence is imprinted on my brain I don't want your vindictive and manipulative behaviour anywhere never me or my family ever again zero contact.

I have never been vindictive or manipulative in all my 64 years.

I have always treated both couples exactly . Why is it my son and daughter in law decided I no longer wanted or needed. When my daughter and son in law can't do enough for me.

But I am very independent and have been since my husband died. I know my health deteriorated since I moved to live closer to them but I am having brilliant health care. Yes my son took me to the hospital and to see consultants but he did that before my move . But my daughter has done those things far more than my son.

He said in his email he doesn't like me but loves me . If this is love I wonder what his hate would be like.

I am sorry you are on your own and your health is getting worse. Losing self confidence and self worth is how estrangement effects you. Suddenly you are not worthy of being a mom and nannie. But what our estranged children and or grandchildren forget it is we will always be their mom and grandparent and not a dam thing they can do about that.

They think they are perfect parents but they are far from it. As there is no such thing as perfect. We give our children unconditional love I for one can't turn that off and will always love my son and grandsons . But I can never forgive my son or daughter in law nor can I ever trust my son he has destroyed that.

But I know I am a better person than they will ever be. I hated my in-laws and my husband never liked his parents but loved them. But we never stopped seeing them every week and never kept the children away from them. My father in law died when our daughter was 4 and son 8 months old. But my mother in law lived for 11 years after my husband died. Even though I hated her I still went every week and looked after her. It wasn't her family who sat by her bedside the last 2 days of her life but me . I did that because even though I hated her she was family . I was brought up with family was everything. And that still means a lot to me now.

Here you are not alone but with people who understand. I don't think of anyone here as just a name but a trusted friend. I hope you feel that way to. I ramble on as you can see but if I didn't write how I feel I think I would just scream.

Glad you have a faith that helps you others here do to . I don't. Ramble over. ?

Whiff,

Thanks for your kind words. I can really understand what you're describing of moving to be near your children and grandchildren - only to find your DIL was against you and eventually you lost your son in it.

The same thing happened to me and it quickly filtered down to the grandchildren and eventually my son, thus multiple estrangements happened very quickly as I was abandoned by my family at my time of greatest need.

I didn't see it coming and was in horrible shock for a long time. It's been devastating and has affected my health, self-worth and self-confidence. It's hard to share any of it with someone who hasn't been through it themselves, so mostly I don't share with people.

I'm sorry for what you and the others here have been through because it's truly a living nightmare - a living death and bereavement.

Now, in my senior years when my health has deteriorated and I need my family to help me occasionally, there is no one and I am completely on my own. I am grateful for God's help and the kindness of strangers he brings my way.

Test post to see if my message will post. I just wrote a long one and couldn't get it to post. Now it's gone.