Handling Duty/Obligation as the "estranger" ;

You must have felt 'between a rock and a hard place' DSL, how awful for you.

Yes, between a rock and hard place describes my predicament at the time. I decided "better the devil you know". I was only 16, but even at that age I knew enough about the care system to be wary.

I could have jumped from the frying pan into the fire, I wasn't prepared to take the risk.

At the time I was at college. I decided to take control, I left college, gave up on further education or thoughts of going to university and got a job. Best thing I ever did. Earning my money lessened his power over me and gave me my first taste of freedom.

I didn't need to estrange, Instead I learned how to handle him. Financial independence was part of my strategy.

No regrets......yes my life would have been easier with a decent education although but I continued to educate myself and eventually went to university when I was 40.

I learned to stand on my own two feet and how to stand up to bullies. I have never been bullied by anyone since then. I learned how to fight back.

I refused to be a victim and I refused to let my childhood define me as an adult. I also refused to let anger and bitterness spoil my chances of a happy life. I chose happiness, I chose life.

I forged my own path, yes I made mistakes, mistakes that I wouldn't have made if I had had two loving parents to guide me. But I don't beat myself up over those mistakes.

My life has been fantastic, a wonderful marriage to the most amazing man, two healthy children, a nice home, an interesting career, I've travelled the world and had fun and adventures.

Now my amazing man is sadly dead but I'm happy enough. Life is good.

My father lived till he was 90. He reaped what he had sown. His life was not a happy one. I never deserted him, I helped him in his declining years, watched over him, made sure he was ok. He was cantankerous and difficult to the end and we never did have any "Golden Pond" moments.

But my conscience is clear. I was a good daughter even if he wasn't a good father.

That's a great post DSL, positive and empowering .

I am so sorry that some of you had parents and relatives that were in any way abusive. I was lucky, l now realise, that l didn't have that at all in my life. Every one was fair and supportive. That was why it was such a shock, l suppose,when a member brought into the family acted in a way l hadn't come across before.
And why l was so naive and unsuspecting of the trouble that came with her.
..

I never thought I was naive Hilltop, thought I was a good judge of character but was fooled for long enough for the damage to be done.

Once I realised what was going on, it was too late.

My adult step-son has certainly left my jaw on the floor, with his atrocious behaviour, over the last 18 years.

Thankfully, he's not my child - or it would have brained him..?

I would have brained him I meant.

jaw on the floor that's a very good way of describing how it feels when reality dawns DiamondLily.

Smileless2012

^jaw on the floor^ that's a very good way of describing how it feels when reality dawns DiamondLily.

Yes, there is no accounting for the way some of these ACs behave.

Reverting to being tantrum throwing toddlers when they don't get their own way.?

That sort of behaviour didn't work when my own children were toddlers, and it'll never work with me when adults pull the same stroke.?

Great post Derbyshire lass. Your story confirms we have choices throughout our lives. The choice you made at 16 was empowering for you . You chose life x

From just my point of view, I couldn’t let any of my close family struggle. I was not estranged from my family, we all got along and made allowances, people won’t these days. However, if I had been estranged, I couldn’t imagine it as mine were good parents. I would have had to make sure they were being looked after, especially my mom and dad, I wouldn’t be here if it wasn’t for them, so apart from love I had for them, morally I couldn’t abandon and drift off because they became difficult. I owe them. I expect nothing from mine, especially my d whom I am estranged from, her decision not mine, I haven’t estranged her, she will always be my daughter. . My son is like me, he would check in and make sure I was cared for.

It's interesting isn't it DiamondLily as duty/obligation works both ways. It may be an EAC feeling obliged to care for/do things for the parent they've estranged out of a sense of duty, or the EP feeling the same way toward the AC who's estranged them.

Smileless2012

It's interesting isn't it DiamondLily as duty/obligation works both ways. It may be an EAC feeling obliged to care for/do things for the parent they've estranged out of a sense of duty, or the EP feeling the same way toward the AC who's estranged them.

Well, we have supported both sides of the family, financially and emotionally, but I don't do threats, I don't do "pay me or I won't talk to you" and I don't do adult tantrums.?

Good for you.

I didn't know it was a legal duty in some states... that is heartbreaking for the children of abusive parents.

My children owe me absolutely nothing as I chose family life. I've already begun the process of setting them free to their own lives, choices and mistakes as adults.

They haven't gone far away but even if they do, it will just be a different relationship.

Good parents are red bull, they give you wings lol

I think abusive people like to pass you their guilt to carry...

It belongs to them

It is OK to put it down

*"Yes, there is no accounting for the way some of these ACs behave.
Reverting to being tantrum throwing toddlers when they don't get their own way.?- Diamond Lily*

I was told I should make my own thread as I am unwelcome on other threads, so I did, and now I see that the people who told me this are over here now. I can't control who comes here and I don't care to, but respect the purpose of the thread.

I asked for "the estranger" perspective and the thread has already turned into "the estranged" making snide comments on the terrible AC's.

There are enough threads harping on the terrible AC's, this isn't the place for that.

It's an Interesting dilemna. Here's my take,

Despite his treatment of me I could not and would not ever have abandoned my father. He couldn't help what he was. He had a serious character flaw which made him a deeply unhappy man. Bitter, angry, jealous and resentful of everyone he thought was enjoying a better life than him.

I don't wish to sound smug but I did my best for him. But I was determined not to let him shape my character or influence my life choices. I was determined to have better relationships than he did, be a better parent, be happier and more successful.

The truth is not one of us is perfect. There are no perfect parents, no perfect children, we all have flaws. It's how we overcome our weaknesses and correct those flaws that counts.

Maya Angelou said. You can forget what was said to you, you can forget what was done to you but you can never forget the way you were made to feel. I think this is probably true. But you can chose how your respond to those feelings - you can let them destroy you or you can resolve to overcome them.

Anger, bitterness, and hatred will eat you alive. You have to let it go or it will ruin any chance of happiness, serenity or contentment. These negative feelings and emotions will make you suspicious, narrow minded and will close your heart to all the good things this world has to offer.

Ernest Hemingway said "the world is still a mighty fine place". It's true, it's better than fine, it's full of beauty and magic. And it's also full of wonderful kind people who will love, cherish and support you if you let them in.

Yes there are some bad apples out there but the good far outweigh the bad.

No matter how badly you were treated bearing a grudge will get you nowhere. It will hurt you far more than it will hurt the person who wronged you. They couldn't give a toss about you so why waste your time and energy hating them, They aren't wasting their lives thinking about you so why give them headspace.

There's no need to estrange anyone. By all means set your boundaries, maintain some distance if you have to but fulfill your obligations and duties so that you can then get on with your life.

You can then change your stars and make your dreams come true with a clear conscience, safe in the knowledge that you did your best. Always do the right thing and then no one can have to cause to reproach you.

It's not about being little Miss Goody Two Shoes, it's about being comfortable in your own skin, knowing you've been the best person you can be, being able to sleep at night and having peace of mind.

There's no feeling like it.

MiaZadora81

From my perspective, the discussion on estrangement tends to center on who's to blame or who is at fault, but I'm interested in what people who think of themselves as the "estranger" are experiencing in terms of duty/obligation/guilt over those who you've estranged.

In my case, I'm estranged from my aunt but she has two bio daughters who are in her life. One of my cousins thinks that I'm shirking my duty, and that I have an obligation to help my aunt because she helped raise me. The other one doesn't see it that way because I'm not my aunt's biological child.

In my opinion, no one asks to be born, therefore kids don't inherently owe their parents anything because it's not like they agreed to be born in exchange for taking care of their parents later, but I'm aware that varies from culture to culture.

"Estrangers", what are your experiences/thoughts with this? Do you struggle with any feelings of guilt and how do you handle it?

Also, just for fun, what's your favorite ice cream flavor? Mine is cake batter flavor

A very interesting topic Mia. Do you think that there is a greater pressure on people like yourself to " give back" because the person who brought you up wasn't obligated to do so, unlike a birth parent, and therefore in some peoples eyes the obligation on you is greater?
My own father was a very violent man and beat me regularly, even breaking my bones on a couple occasions. When he was diagnosed with liver cancer in his later years, I still felt " duty bound" to care for him as no one else was prepared to. I wasn't pressured by others, in fact most people said I was mad and I should leave him to rot. I was glad that I did it though because it gave me closure and proved to myself that his treatment of me hadn't stopped me being the person I wanted to be, I felt stronger for doing it.

it's about being comfortable in your own skin, knowing you've been the best person you can be, being able to sleep at night and having peace of mind absolutely DSL and you're absolutely right when you say There's no feeling like it.

DSL, thank you for sharing your story, I appreciate it!

To be clear, I am not criticizing you DSL, your situation shows that you are strong and resilient and your dad didn't deserve the kindness you showed him. I'm commenting on the general notion of "deal with them" vs "walk away"

You said, I didn't need to estrange, Instead I learned how to handle him.

This is really interesting to me because one of my cousins told me that I just needed to learn how to deal with my aunt instead of walking away.

It sounds like it was really important for you to be a good daughter, whatever that means to you, so maybe that's why you decided to handle him rather than leaving?

I don't have a desire to be a "good niece". I'm focused on being a good person, so I walk away from people I think are bad people, no matter what the relationship is...and the result is that I don't have anyone in my life who needs to be "handled". People in my life are here because I want them to be and vice versa.

I feel like if we replaced the word "parent" with "friend/spouse" when we're describing abusive relationships, most people would not say "learn to handle it", they say, you chose him/her, leave!

But if it's someone you didn't choose, a parent/child/sibling, the conversation changes and apparently abuse is supposed to be tolerated. I think that narrative needs to change because it's bad to teach people, especially women, that it's their job to manage other people's emotions and bad behavior.

There is nothing wrong with estranging an abusive person, it still shocks me to see people say otherwise.

Estranging for me has meant no anti depressants or anxiety medication for the first time in my adult life. At one point I tried to commit suicide. I have heard if other adult children and grandchildren driven to serious mental health consequences.

I think if anyone would judge another for estranging, whether the estranged is an adult child, parent, sibling or other family member, then that genuinely isn't a healthy point of view.

People make the right decisions for them and those who were able to stay in contact with an abusive person, then you have my respect...

But those who estranged so that they could be happy and healthy for their own children and the people who do value them, that was the right thing to do.

Always

Normandygirl,

Yes, I definitely think there's a greater pressure for people in my situation, although I don't consider myself under that pressure anymore.

My own father is still alive, I think, and I've signed up for the bone marrow donor registry in the U.S. He is the only person I will not donate to. I give blood on a regular basis, I volunteer, I give to charity, and I would give my bone marrow to a stranger, but never ever to him.

In fact, if he needed a kidney or something, I would agree to get tested and if we matched, I'd celebrate and give my kidney to someone else. Maybe that stranger is also a bad person, I have no idea, but I'm not going to risk my life for someone I know is a bad person. I'd rather take a chance on a stranger.

Mia. Don't get upset again.

You asked for the "estranger" perspective. Most posters ARE answering you. They are explaining why they estranged someone or, in my case, explaining why I didn't estrange my father, despite all I endured at his hands. Some are explaining why they are so opposed to estrangement,whatever form it takes.

I don't think it's a case of "taking over" your thread but rather trying to add to the debate by sharing their stories and viewpoints.

Maybe just skim over the bits that you find irrelevant to your circumstances. If certain posters really get under your skin then perhaps there is an ignore function on this site. I am not very computer savvy - perhaps someone could advise you on that.

As far as I am aware you are not unwelcome on the other estrangement thread. It welcomes all comers. If people have been shirt with you it is because some of your posts have been a tad aggressive.

You are angry and with good reason, You've had a rough deal and a poor start in life. It's not surprising the pain you feel bubbles up into rage. But asking for peoples thoughts and then trashing them because you don't like what they are thinking or saying isn't very productive is it.

There's a wise saying.....lose your temper, lose the argument. Try and listen to what people are trying to say. Don't just fly off the handle, letting your temper run away with you, it achieves nothing.

I don't always like what I read or the advice I'm given and I certainly don't like criticism even if it's well meant. I too can be over sensitive at times. Can't we all. But we all have to learn to tame our inner toddler and at least listen to what others are trying to teach us.

We can all learn from each other. That's what these threads are for, that is their strength,

DSL
I was in my 30s before I knew/ understood where my fathers violent abusive rages came from.
I learnt that he was 19, a signalman on the Russian convoys. Life expectancy: 4 days.
Unlike you, there was no contact ( bar 2 weddings ) after I left home at 18.
I bear no grudge. He’s just someone I knew.