Friendship,advice and support if estrangement has affected your life.

Thank you for your support. I have a few friends locally but don't feel that I can share what is happening as my life is so different from theirs. I know you shouldn't compare but can't speak to people who seem to have supportive happy families when I feel such disappointment with my daughter and alone without a husband.
It's been a tough weekend. I still feel rough from infection but have finished the antibiotics and think they have worked as not in pain now.
I got very emotional yesterday. I needed to clear out a sideboard ready for a decorator to come on monday. All the photo albums of my life were in this sideboard and even though I didn't even open them I just sobbed uncontrollably. All those moments of joy bringing up my girls putting everything into them after their father left us when they were small.
Now I feel alone. Why is the love I gave to them not being returned in my old age ? Even the younger one didn't pick up when I tried to phone her. I feel invisible .
Yesterday was the first time I really felt suicidal. I feel that I have done all in life and just want to stop. Have felt vulnerable on my own being ill and now don't want to just go on with that feeling. What's the point ?
In nature many species once they have raised their young then die as their purpose in life has been fulfilled. Feel the same.
Sorry don't mean to upset anyone but feel it is safe to say how I feel on this forum.

Hi Jaffacake. I'm so sorry that you're still having problems with your eldest D and FWIW you are doing exactly the right things.

It's awful to know that you need to protect yourself from your own child but your well being needs to be your number one priority. You've done the right thing telling her that you cannot take your GC to her sister's wedding. She must have known that when she asked you and I wonder if doing so was to cause you further anxiety.

They haven't been invited and it would be wrong for you to even make the request which makes me question her motivation.

It's good to cry. To let it out, rather than trying to keep the pain and heart ache locked inside. Antibiotics often lower the mood at the best of times as does feeling unwell, especially if you live alone and there's no one to offer support, a kind word and a much longed for hug.

Perhaps your youngest D not picking your call wouldn't have upset you as much if you weren't feeling unwell and vulnerable.

You have your D's wedding to look forward too and the time that you get to spend with your GC. Although there are times when it doesn't feel like it, we are more than mothers and GM's. We have a life to live that may not have turned out the way we thought it would, but is still of value because we are of value.

I'm glad you feel safe to say how you truly feel here, it is what this thread is for and I'm confident that you will never say anything that someone who posts here hasn't thought of felt themselves.

You are not alone, you are among friends so please keep talking to us .

Great badge Whiff, I bet your GS was thrilled when he saw it.

Awful night last night, just couldn't drift off to sleep. Really stupid things going around in my head that I couldn't switch off.

It happens every few weeks and is so frustrating but didn't get up until 9.15 so got a couple of lost hours back and can always have a doze this afternoon if necessary.

It's a lovely bright and sunny day here today so if I have the energy will take the dogs out for a walk this afternoon with
Mr. S. once I've put the in the oven. Must remember to put it in the oven on as on one occasion, we got back from a walk expecting to be met with the scent of our Sunday roast only to discover that the oven was on, and the chicken was on the cooker instead of in the oven.

Jaffa never give up on life. For all you are going through now and in the past has made you stronger than you think. By posting how you really feel here shows how much courage you have. It's not easy to admit things that are awful in your life. But here people understand and never judge. Life is hard but it's life. I don't believe in life at any cost . If I was dieing of a horrible disease I wouldn't want to live. But until that happens I live everyday the best way I can. Estrangement makes you feel as if you are the only one it's happened to. But it's more common than you realise. I never thought my son would do what he has . Never saw it coming. But then again always thought I would die before my husband as I have had problems by with my limbs since young. But it was my fit healthy husband who died. Half of me died with him . But he made me promise to live the best life I can. You must to. It's not easy it's very hard. But by writing here how you feel it gets those feelings out in the open . I know it helps me rambling on here .

I try and find a positive out of a negative not always easy but I do find one doesn't matter if it's silly. Thursday when I tripped in the hall that was a big negative but the positive was I didn't go all the way down I saved myself on the radiator ok got a large bruise on my thigh but I didn't end up on the floor .

I have wonderful videos of the 2 out of 3 grandson's I know with my son and daughter in law but can't watch them because I can hear my son's voice and see my daughter in law on one. But have photos of the 2 boys on display. I know they don't look like that anymore but it's how I remember them. My oldest grandson was 6 on the 7th so I be wished him happy birthday out loud. It made me feel better saying it out loud even though he is will never know.

I find being on antibiotics makes me feel low. Hopefully they have done the trick and cleared up the infection. But they may have made you feel low as well. Plus you mentioned other health problems. I suppose like me you sometimes feel like you are ploughing through treacle.

You say you have the decorator coming that's something to look forward . Ok it's a lot of moving things about but think how lovely it will look once done. The nights drawing in can make you feel low. But I think a different way I love the cosy feel of the curtains shut snuggled under a warm fleece watching the TV cross stitching.

Do you have any hobbies you enjoy? And do you manage to get out during the day?

Jaffa just keep posting as it gets the thoughts out of your head . Hope you feel better about yourself by the end of the day. ?

Thank you for kind thoughts.
I phoned my youngest daughter this morning and had a long chat about her wedding plans. She had turned the phone off yesterday as she was having a day to herself to mentally process her week. She works as a surgery coordinator in an oncology unit and puts a lot into interactions with cancer patients. Like me she sometimes just needs quiet to calm her mind . She asked me about the GC as she missed them .She also said she thinks I'm brave to carry on a relationship with them in spite of the abuse I have had from their mother. Not sure if it is bravery or just stubbornness that I will not lose contact with them.
It was reassuring talking to her and feel more positive.
I think you are right when you say about feeling low after infection and antibiotics on top of chronic illness. My anxiety levels always rise when on tablets as I am allergic to many and have had anaphylaxis to medicines and foods. My friend came and sat with me after the first tablet and came back at 10pm for the next in case I reacted and needed epipen adrenaline. Bless her.
I think I am looking at a better mental state than earlier and just need to focus on the good things in my life.
When better I will buy some lidded plastic boxes,and put the photo albums in the loft. I really need to look forward and not dwell on the past.
My love to all x

It's so good to see your post and know that you're feeling more settled Jaffacake.

I agree with your D, you are brave, even stubbornness requires a degree of courage to continue. I'm glad you had a good chat with your D and that you're being supported by your friend.

We all know what we need to do, what we should do but of course it's easier said than done. We cannot ignore or forget our past even though some of our AC appear to be doing so.

Forgetting and ignoring all the good that we did, all the love that we gave them and that we raised them to be kind and loving and angry and vengeful.

That should have read 'and not angry and vengeful'.

I'm sorry you've had such a rough ride Jaffa. Glad you're feeling a bit better. Photo albums can be such a source of pain. I never look at mine anymore.

I had a rough night last night as well smiles. Hope you have a better one.

Good morning all. ?

I realised after I ended up in hospital, through the behaviour of others..?..that something had to change.

If something is affecting physical health, then it needs to stop.

So, DH and I went to stay at a friend's holiday cottage, in the New Forest, for a few days, just to get my head together, and work out the best way to move forward with the various tantrums etc. going on around me.

It was lovely just being down with wildlife, and the ponies/donkeys/cattle outside the door. The changing leaves make it very pretty this time of year.

We didn't go on the net much, switched the phones off for a lot of the day, and just chilled.

I can't change the behaviour of others, but I need to change how I deal with it. My usual humourous, gung ho approach isn't working too well at the moment lol ?

Anyway, hope everyone ok. Have a nice day.?

I did have a better night hugs and hope you did too.

I'm having the same thought process DL. Nothing in particular apart from worrying about the future. One of us being left alone. The size of this fabulous house and all the things we have.

We're keeping hold of the flat so we have options but for some reason I don't seem to be able to concentrate on the 'now', and am constantly thinking about the logistics of dealing with everything if we ever decided to drastically downsize, and live between our lovely flat and our lodge.

I know it's ridiculous and am driving myself mad TBH. I do want to have a sort out over the winter and am hoping that just a bit of decluttering will help to restore my equilibrium.

We were both tearful watching 'Home Alone' yesterday. This will be our 9th Christmas with just the two of us and we're already feeling unsettled at the thought of another one, despite always making the most of the season.

Maybe it's an age thing.

I think winter coming and the energy price rises ,darker nights, interests rate rises it's unsettling a lot of people. Food prices ,petrol are also rising . Went will it all end. Also some people scare mongering saying there will be power cuts rubbish. Bet everyone here remembers the miners strike in the 70's power cuts ,3 day week and full or partial school closures. I remember it was a very cold and snowy winter when that was all happening. Because I was in the top stream had to go to school for 3 half days a week sit in our coat's in the science labs with the Bunsen burners on. Why is it I remember that and can't remember what I had for dinner last week ?.

Birthdays, anniversaries,special times of the year effects us all because we have people missing . It's bad enough if they have died. But knowing that it's our own children that don't want us is worse. I never assume I will have Christmas at my daughter's but knowing her I will be there. Even when I lived in the Midlands she came every year on 23rd and left 27th . My son only ever came once for Christmas but came every new year.
Once my daughter and son in law brought a house she fetched me on the 23rd and brought me back on 27th. I stayed with them as they had spare rooms. But took it in turns spending Christmas dayb with them and then boxing day at my son's alternating each year.

Looking back to my first Christmas living here the warning signs where there something was up as it was my son's turn to have me Christmas day but he texted on 23rd to say he would be to tired to have me as he had a long shift on Christmas Eve. Like a fool I choose to believe him even though deep down I knew it was a lie. My daughter when mad the air was blue with her ranting. But she was right but as I never took sides didn't say anything. Of course now I know I should have challenged him. Then I was supposed to go too them boxing day but he phoned on Christmas Eve and said they would come to me and bring all the food and he would cook. Since I moved here in the August was never invited to their house. Coming to me was fine as my grandson's loved it here. My daughter in law sat and crochet and only talked to me if I asked a question. But I had fun with my grandson's and my son cooked a lovely meal they went at 7 this was 2019 never saw my daughter in law in person again.

Both my children had wanted me to live closer to them for years . Seems my daughter in law preferred me over 100 miles away. But it was my son that sent the email in May and the letter when he sent all the birthday and birth things back in August 2020.

Like everyone here I think I am coping then a stray thought makes the loss hurt more.

Had a strange day for a start didn't wake until 6.40 normally I am awake by 5 . Got pain in my right ribs,hip and thigh but decided must because I bashed my thigh last week. But at the bus stop feel unwell so came home and slept for 2 hours. I hate it when my body stops me doing things and hate having to change my plans because of it.

Hence my rambling here enough about me.

Jaffa glad you spoke to your younger daughter. Even though they have all their weddings plans in hand it's still a worry to make sure they have everything in order plus her having a demanding job and worrying about you puts a lot of pressure on her. Our children that care about us and the fact their sibling is hurting us must play on their minds. But you have a wonderful day to look forward and her wedding will be fabulous. A very proud mother of the bride.

Hugs hope you had a better night's sleep and your house move is still on.

Smiles hope you had a better night as well. Having a good declutter I found no only decluttered my home but my mind as well and helped me let go off a lot of things and feelings. I rattled about in my old house and the jaundice brought home to me I needed a bungalow. Funny enough my son always said I needed a bungalow long before I put my house on the market. He was right. Since my move I found me again. I found moving very freeing people got to know me not all the labels. Plus got to see the family every week. Well for 8 months until my son dumped me.

At least you have the flat and the lodge plus your house so you have options . I think having a declutter will surprise you how little you need to have around . Plus a big factor will be energy costs as I think we will have a bad winter after the scorching temperatures.

Does Mr S play bowls all year round ? Have you had your concert yet can't remember the date you said .

My daughter and grandson's are coming after school so he will get his badge today. The little one goes to nursey 3 days and loves it. His brother loves school. But did have a complaint about his latest book from school as it didn't have any words it and wanted to know why. As he has been used to books with words and pictures since a baby.

Well better have my lunch.

Hope you are all feeling more settled and having a good day.

DiamondLily apologies I missed you out . Hope you are feeling better. Being hurt by others behaviour is horrible. Problem is they won't change as they think what they are doing is right . They are all self. Took me long time to realise what my daughter in law was doing but never saw what son was aiming to do. Had my blinkers firmly one. More fool me.

It's hard to put yourself first after years of putting others first.. Especially when it comes to our children. I didn't expect to be first in anyone's life after my husband died but did expect to be loved and respected . I am lucky I have my daughter and family,plus other family and friends who do care.

It's hard when you see people playing happy families but it does make me wonder what happens behind closed doors . There are 40 bungalows in my road and know one man who is estranged from his son. Also my window cleaner is estranged from his 6 siblings. So estrangement is more common than you think.

Glad you had a good time in the New Forest it's a beautiful area. And have you time to clear your mind and plot a course of action. It horrible to think you have to protect ourselves from people we love.

That sounds lovely Diamond Lily - I find nature so good for he soul.

I find myself worrying more about the future all the time. That's definitely not good for peace of mind.

Hope you had a nice time with your daughter and grandsons Whiff. I bet he loved he fabulous badge.

Morning everyone.

Mr. S. plays indoor bowls in the winter Whiff. His winter club is struggling with around 90 members not renewing so there are concerns that it may have to close.

He said he couldn't understand it as it's only £40 to join and then £5 a game but I said that for some that's simply money that they cannot afford to pay out with everything costing so much.

Our concert was postponed and is taking place on the 21st of this month so only two more rehearsals to go. Mr. S. has his ticket . It's nice to know he's there supporting me that said, I never look at him during the performance in case it puts me off.

Meeting up with a friend and our choir's pianist this morning as we're planning on singing 'The Little Drummer Boy/Peace on Earth' at this year's carol service. I did it years ago, unaccompanied with another friend and it is lovely, providing you get it just right of course.

Joining the choir a year ago was the best thing I could have done and I almost talked myself out of it!!!

You're right hugs, nature is good for the soul and I find singing is too, whereas worrying about the future is most definitely not so I'm making a determined effort not to do it. Easier said than done though.

I remember a child psychologist friend telling me that it's the secure and loved children who "act out" the most at home, because they feel so safe in the knowledge that they won't be abandoned by you. I replied that I must have the most secure children in the country then! I do wonder if that feeling of security still exists in some AC's who estrange from loving parents. Do they still feel that any cruel and hurtful behaviour will be forgiven and instantly forgotten because they know our love for them is unshakable?
The reason my thoughts have been drifting in this direction is I am trying to help a friend of my daughter find her mother. She had a very sad upbringing, with her mother putting her in and out of care whenever she couldn't cope, or a new partner came along. I know that drug use was a factor as well. I asked her why she felt compelled to find her and what she hoped to gain from it, and how she would feel if her mother didn't want contact. She said that the only reason she wants to find her is " because she's my Mum and I just need to know if she's OK"

Ah bless her heart Normandy.....she sounds like a lovely girl.

Hello Everyine

welcome Jaffacake. Glad to hear that your conversation with your daughter went well and that you feel a bit better. Estrangement, or the fear of it, and yes, even the reconciliation are all so painful. They strike fear in the heart. I am enjoying my reconciliation with my son but at the back of my mind there's always the knowledge that it happened and the fear that it could happen again. I try not to worry but it can be hard to fully relax.

I am not taking this reconciliation for granted and I will do my utmost to ensure we stay in track. However, one thing it has taught me is that I need to protect myself and to insist on boundaries and that I am treated with respect. I will never ever be a doormat again. I've learned - the hard way of course - that maintaining a diplomatic silence when required is one thing but subsuming my own needs in the service of anyone else is not a good idea. I need to be my true authentic self, if DIL doesn't like who I am then she can whistle. It's not my job to make people like me. It's my job to like myself,

It's only taken me a lifetime to learn that ......??. No more people pleasing, no more tying myself in knots. Were my husband alive he would never allow anyone to treat me badly so from now on neither will I. If, ultimately, losing my son and grandchildren is the price I pay then so be it. But, so far so good, the "conversation" has done its job. It was difficult, painful and embarrassing and it was most definitely a gamble. But thankfully it was a gamble that paid off.

Lily. I think you and your DH are doing the right thing by stepping back and taking time out for yourselves. You have such a lot on your plate, you need time and space and TLC to deal with it all. Time to gather your strength and resources. Take care my dear, look after yourself.

Same to all of you, take care of yourselves, cherish the ones who do love you, focus your energies on them, not the ones who have tossed you aside. They don't deserve you. And you deserve better.

Smiles, sorry to hear you've been a bit melancholy, it does creep up on us. It's inevitable all we can do is ride out the bad times and try and look for those silver linings. They can be hard to find though and sometimes it takes everything we've got just to get through the day. ? you are still inspirational and I am so grateful I found you.

Whiff. Hope the PIP claim goes in your favour, it's so unfair that you have been denied what is rightfully yours for so long. I hope you get the justice that is owed to you.

Hugs.....hope you are sleeping better now. Is the house move still on track. Spoke to my EA last week. She informed me everything is ok, everyone in the chain has received their mortgage offers and we are just awaiting local searches.

In the meantime I'm just concentrating on me....have had my flu jab, need to book my covid. Today I had a prep treatment for my root canal ??. Fancy having to pay to be tortured. Lol.

Did a tip run last week, have packed about 9 boxes so far, still steadily deccuttering.

Oh and I've now lost 10lbs. Wahoo. ?

Just need to keep on, keeping on.......

.

I think you are right that sometimes the acting out comes from the knowledge that love is unconditional and will not be withdrawn. I do love my daughter but I don't like her behaviour and am learning self preservation from her abusive verbal attacks.
My other daughter who estranged her sister due to her toxic behaviour does not feel the same. She doesn't feel that she has to have her sister in her life at any cost. She had decided the cost is too high and has separated from her.
I don't know if I will ever reach that stage of letting her go. When their father ,my ex husband,was abusive to me I knew I had to protect the children. But now that child is showing the same behaviour I can't let go. But I am drawing boundaries, you ladies taught me that last year xx

Such a lovely thing to say; thank you DSL.

It's not my job to make people like me. It's my job to like myself I love that.

10lbs way to go. Good luck with the root canal. Just thinking about one makes my legs turn to jelly. Yeah I know, what a wimp.

You make a very good observation Normandygirl and it's often evident when there's reconciliation. When despite the way an EAC has treated their parent(s) they are taken back; despite the understandable fear that it may happen again.

I thought about this when my mum died, when almost 8 years into our estrangement, our ES emailed me with his condolences. What on earth made him think that 2 days after she'd died I'd want to get an email from him, when we'd had no contact for all that time?

While there is still contact Jaffa those boundaries are extremely important. For those of us with no contact, none are needed as the 'no contact' is in itself a boundary.

I concur with your D in relation to our ES, in not feeling that I have to have our ES in our lives at any cost. As much as I love him and let's be honest, it would a lot easier if we didn't wouldn't it, I don't feel that I have to have him in my life and TBH I don't feel that I want too.

The concert and carol service sound wonderful smiles. I do enjoy singing but, for the sake of others' ears, I don't do it in public. My cousin writes and sings folk music - she plays the accordion too and still has a strong voice to say she's nearly 80. We go along and listen sometimes and it's a lovely night out.

I do hope your young friend finds what she's looking for Normandy.

Glad to hear things are still on track with the house DSL - we haven't heard anything recently but expect the new buyers further down the chain are still getting their searches etc done. Might chase it soon if we don't hear. Jabs and root canal work - all the fun! Hope it's not too bad.

I agree about he boundaries Jaffa - I've learned a lot from reading DSL's policy,

I agree with you all, 'at any cost' is too big a price to pay.

Normandygirl I asked my husband why he put up with his parents behaviour towards us he said they are my parents and I love them but don't like them. It was only when we went out did he have the family he deserved and the love and attention he had never had.

My son said that in his email I love you mom but don't like you. Didn't even say that in his letter 3 months later.

My husband joined the scouts when he was 13 and found a sort of family. But mainly it was to escape his home life. His dad wanted to send him to boarding school at 13 but his mom said no. It's the only time she protected him . With my parents you always saw the love between them. But his they liked eachother but don't know if they even knew what love was. My mother in law hated her home life . She didn't get on with her stepmom. My father in law was 6 years older he was the youngest of 11 his oldest brother had been killed in WW1. His dad said if he married then he could have the house provided his wife looked after him until his death. His father owned the house. Their married helped them both out.

My husband only liked and loved 2 of his relatives his great grandfather who was well into his 90's when he died and a great aunt. When we got together we went to his great aunt every month for afternoon Sunday tea. She was everything his mom should have been.

I know if he had lived he wouldn't have turned a blind eye to things with our son and know he wouldn't have stood for this estrangement. I suppose because he never gave up on his parents . My father in law died aged 70 when our daughter was 4 and son 8 months. But he adored our daughter and gave her all the love and attention denied his own son . And when we had our son he showered him with that love. Unfortunately my mother in law took a dislike to our daughter from the moment she was born because she cried once when she held her. But was all our son until he was 4-5 . She only interacted with them as much as was expected of her.

Our children saw how she treated us but like me never gave up on her after their dad's death. But what grandmother refuses to go to her grandchildren's wedding . She did. Wild horses wouldn't have kept my mom away. Mom danced until 1.30am at my daughter's wedding and stood on the pavement while we waited for a taxi singing with some people from other parties that where held at the venue. She was sobber but so happy.

Four years later she managed to dance until 10.30 before getting to tired so my daughter and son in law took her to the hotel so I could stay until the end.

My son and daughter in law saw the difference between my parents and mother in law and yet they have treated me as my in laws treated his dad and me. I will never understand why .

Morning all

Just catching up after a long w/e away at Seal Bay, it was really lovely and the weather was good, unfortunately didn't see the Seals.

Well done on your GS badge Whiff and well done on increasing the value of your flat Smiles That's what I needed to do before selling my last property but would have had to get someone in to do the work, so it didn't happen.

Sorry you are having probs with your ED Jaffa hope you manage to sort it all out. It would be nice if the sisters made up before the wedding, then problem solved.

Should have said will mention everyone else but my hands don't want to work today. Extra pain killers again?

Shame the seals were hiding yogin but glad you had a lovely time.

Hope your hands feel better tomorrow whiff.

Morning all.

It's something I never imagined happening Whiff, loving someone but not liking them. When the love is true and strong, it remains in spite of everything doesn't it, and when it's lost, one can't help but wonder if it was ever really there to begin with.

Hope your hands are working better now. Do extra pain killers affect them? If so, that must be very frustrating but better having a bad hand day than being in pain .

Well that's just typical isn't it*Yogin*. You go to Seal Bay and there aren't any!!!

Did anyone watch 'The Winter of Discontent' on channel 5 last night? We'd forgotten just how bad it was and how useless Callaghan was as PM. Do remember the snow though. We were courting (don't see that word very often these days) and when we were going out, there was only one side of the road open, with snow piled high on either side.

Mr. S. has awful fond memories of my unsuitable boots. They were ankle boots from Ravel. High heels and smooth soles so I was slipping and sliding all over the place. Good excuse to hang on to his arm though.

Yes I watched the Winter of Discontent. I remember it well. I was living as a solo at the time and had just bought my own property, a wreck which I was renovating. I was absolutely skint and had to sell my car to keep going. Fun times. Lol.

Those of us who lived through it know we can survive this forthcoming winter, probably because of the lessons we learned back then. It wont be pleasant but we will get through it. It's a depressing thought though, that 40 years later it's all happening again. So much for progress and Gordon Browns promises that the era of boom and bust was over. I thought at the time "in your dreams sunshine, it is a recurring pattern of capitalism that there are cycles of boom and bust, you can't eradicate them". Seems I was right and he was wrong. ?

I have just checked my energy account and I'm £466 in credit. Plus of course there will be the government help and the increased WFA, so I'm not too worried. If we have a similar kind of bad weather to 1978 then it won't be much fun. Energy bills will be astronomical and the government help won't touch the sides. I did buy some more thermal undies and leggings yesterday. And I'm well stocked up on knitwear and warm clothing.

I think all we can do is prepare for the worst and hope for the best. However, I can't really stock up on food yet because of the uncertainty over moving dates. I would advise anyone who can prepare themselves now to do so. I need to start running my freezer down ready for the move. So today I'm going to do an inventory.

At least the weather is still kind, a other nice sunny day here.