Mistakes of last Christmas, not to be repeated!

I was just thinking about the many Christmas Eve's spent planning how to make Christmas day special, waiting for the kids to go to sleep so we could do their stockings.

I wonder if my son will bother with these things, bother to think of his kids and make it a special time- or whether he will just make everything about money like usual. I would love to think of my GC having fun with and being close to other relatives or friends even if it can't be us, but with my son's controlling ways this is not even likely. Last time he took his kids to a horribly expensive place, they did not have a good time because it was not a suitable place to take a child and they all had a throughly miserable time. All the GC wanted to do was be with us and I think this made my son mad.

I hope my GC will have a wonderful Christmas, somehow. Hope that if they are being controlled and if something is really wrong, someone will spot it - or that there may be other kids for them to play with even if they're strangers kids.

Alioop

If people ask I always say there's just me and my sister. I actually do have 2 other sisters, who we are no longer in contact with. They never even went to our parents funerals, I will never ever forgive them for that, they are no longer family to me. One sister thought she was better than us when she married into money and the other was the opposite and always in trouble with loan sharks, etc as she lived above her means. My parents were never done paying off her debts, she always made a beeline for my dad because she knew he was the soft touch even using her 2 boys as ammunition. He adored them as he just had us girls and when he finally got a grandson he was delighted.
My parents saw their grandchildren or great grandchildren for a few years and then it just stopped. They did nothing wrong and I know they both went to their graves not knowing what happened, especially that never even got to meet some of the great grandchildren.
Some people don't deserve to be chased and worried about, you're son is just selfish. I'm so sorry that you probably won't get to see your grandchildren and how hurtful that will be for you, but just try to enjoy Christmas with the rest of your lovely family and don't let him ruin it for the rest of you Onward

So sorry about your two other sisters, that's awful. I think my youngest son feels that way about his brother. I mentioned him tonight and he changed the subject, so I just have to respect that he doesn't want to talk about him.
I'm so sad for your parents, how heartbreaking. You're right. He doesn't deserve to be chased or worried about.

I did actually check if it was true that he was out of the country. He's not. He's at his home. No doubt he will go somewhere fancy for Christmas lunch that will be instagrammable and not require him to be a decent human being to any of his blood relations. It's his kids I feel sorry for as they aren't allowed friends or to be close to any other family members. We were the only ones.

I'm also concerned for his partner as he controls her as well. But she's not my responsibility and to contact her would anger him.

Wishing you a wonderful Christmas too, thanks.

VB000

BigBertha1 and OnwardandUpward - so sorry to hear of all your family's problems. I started following this guy on Facebook, not that it affects us personally, but more out of curiosity, if I'm honest.

He has managed to turn his life around, and is now helping others quit drugs. A very uplifting story... it would be nice to think there is hope for everyone (unfortunately this is unrealistic in some cases though).

]]

Thankyou, that's inspiring. I do keep an open mind as I do still believe anything is possible. I also remind myself that nothing will change until my son wants to change.

Franbern

My older brother had chips on his shoulders the size of the Titanic iceburgs - the main reason (as he told me) was that our Dad. who was invadided out of the armed services during WW11, did NOT then go on to make 'loads of money' on the black market as others did!!! This is what he told me - really blaming my Dad and feeling that we (he) had been failed by Dad NOT being a criminal!!!

He also blamed both my parents for putting him into an orphanage when he less than a year old for a few months. At that time, they had broken up, my Mum had returned to her parents, who had accepted her provided she worked, but not a baby. Back then (this is 1930) they had no alternative. Within six months they had reconciled and he was back with them. He has no memory of this time, but used what he had been told as another reason to castigate Dad.

He caused them no end of worry, being arrested for trying to falsify his post office savings book when he was 17 years old. My parents always stood by him, even when he would (on several occasions), borrow money from them and then disappear. They were just poor, very working class people. No property, little savings ever.

They hoped he had finally settled down when he married a lovely girl and they went on to have two children. My brother trained as a black cab drvier in London and even managed to get a mortgage (first member of our family EVER to live in their own house!!!

Then they emigrated.....and it all went very wrong quickly. Mhy sister-in-law became pregnant again, and my brother did not want any more children. He abandoned his family in the foreign country, having already fallen out with the civil authorities there and returned to England. That, my father could NOT forgive!!!!!

These actions meant that when his wife and three children were eventually able to return to her parents home, they were forbidden by those g.parents of having anything whatoeve to do with her husband's family ever again. Broke my parents heart not seeing their two eldest g.children and the new baby.

My brother would disappear for years at the time, then turning up, bright and breezy as if nothing had happened. I even had him living with myself and hubbie for a short time, until he started his usual way of NOT paying any rent. Visited him when he was in hospital having been knocked down on a zebra crossing- even persuaded a close friend who was a solicitor to take on his case. All fine, until not long before this was due to go to court, he did one of his disappearing acts along with a van full of cigaretes he was supposed to be delivering. Even went to visit him in Ford open prison!!!

He re-appeared not long before our Mum died - in her hospital bed she asked my Dad to try to keep a relationship with their son. Bless him, he did try........for six weeks, when son borrowed money and disappeared yet again. This time if was eleven years during which time Dad also died.
Then one evening I had a phone call full of jokes and good humour from my brother - he was now in his 70's, unwell, and lonely - and remembered he had a sister. For the next three or four years he was a constant part of my life. Telephoning me nearly every day , treating MY children to presents and meals out I did remind him that he was now a g.parent and might be good to see his own childen). He met his son once, made a further arrangement and failed to turn up. His daughter refused to see him, as did the youngest born after he had abandoned the family and whom he NEVER saw.

He ended in hospital and one of my children actually walked with his trolley down to the operating theatre, for an procedure from which he never recovered. He left debts which I covered as well as paying for his funeral. Yes, I was sad at losing my only sibling, but TBH was so used to his long absences it was just like one of those.

Fortunately, as my niece and nephew left their other g.parents home to get married, etc. they recontacted my parents and did have a good relationship with them and with me, which continues to this day. My anger at my brother reached its zenith when I read of my niece's wedding in a newspaper announcement and drove my parents to sit in the public gallery to watch their eldest g.child get married!!!

So, many years down the line - I do see my brother's children, grand children and g.grandchildren quite regularly and my own children have good relations with these cousins.

Reading so many sad enstrangement stories I just wanted to put this down, to say that there can be a happy ending in these cases, no matter how rotten one individual can be.

Oh dear , for goodness sake! Your brother sounds like my son having a problem with ME for not being criminal.

What is wrong with them? So sorry you had so many problems with your brother. You did all the right things and I'm glad it's turned out that you do have contact with his kids. Wishing you a wonderful Christmas!

Franbern, that sounds like it was really difficult for all your family. My child's father would disappear for years at a time and I know the heartbreak that causes. One thing that struck me in your post was that your brother was put into care when he was very young through no fault of your parents so I would hate you to think I was blaming them. However, research now shows that breaks with parents, particularly with their mothers, especially between the age of 0 and 3, can have a devastating affect upon the brain. It can cause an emotional attachment disorder even if the child can't remember it. This happened with me and my sister which caused us a mass of problems with our relationships; my sister who was only 6 months has struggled so much more than me even though she cannot remember that period.
Of course that doesn't mean your brother can be forgiven all his sins but it may explain some of his behaviours which might make slightly less painful memories.

If people ask I always say there's just me and my sister. I actually do have 2 other sisters, who we are no longer in contact with. They never even went to our parents funerals, I will never ever forgive them for that, they are no longer family to me. One sister thought she was better than us when she married into money and the other was the opposite and always in trouble with loan sharks, etc as she lived above her means. My parents were never done paying off her debts, she always made a beeline for my dad because she knew he was the soft touch even using her 2 boys as ammunition. He adored them as he just had us girls and when he finally got a grandson he was delighted.
My parents saw their grandchildren or great grandchildren for a few years and then it just stopped. They did nothing wrong and I know they both went to their graves not knowing what happened, especially that never even got to meet some of the great grandchildren.
Some people don't deserve to be chased and worried about, you're son is just selfish. I'm so sorry that you probably won't get to see your grandchildren and how hurtful that will be for you, but just try to enjoy Christmas with the rest of your lovely family and don't let him ruin it for the rest of you Onward

BigBertha1 and OnwardandUpward - so sorry to hear of all your family's problems. I started following this guy on Facebook, not that it affects us personally, but more out of curiosity, if I'm honest.

He has managed to turn his life around, and is now helping others quit drugs. A very uplifting story... it would be nice to think there is hope for everyone (unfortunately this is unrealistic in some cases though).

www.amazon.co.uk/Endless-Possibilities-My-Fresh-Start/dp/B09LY5HWM8?tag=gransnetforum-21

My older brother had chips on his shoulders the size of the Titanic iceburgs - the main reason (as he told me) was that our Dad. who was invadided out of the armed services during WW11, did NOT then go on to make 'loads of money' on the black market as others did!!! This is what he told me - really blaming my Dad and feeling that we (he) had been failed by Dad NOT being a criminal!!!

He also blamed both my parents for putting him into an orphanage when he less than a year old for a few months. At that time, they had broken up, my Mum had returned to her parents, who had accepted her provided she worked, but not a baby. Back then (this is 1930) they had no alternative. Within six months they had reconciled and he was back with them. He has no memory of this time, but used what he had been told as another reason to castigate Dad.

He caused them no end of worry, being arrested for trying to falsify his post office savings book when he was 17 years old. My parents always stood by him, even when he would (on several occasions), borrow money from them and then disappear. They were just poor, very working class people. No property, little savings ever.

They hoped he had finally settled down when he married a lovely girl and they went on to have two children. My brother trained as a black cab drvier in London and even managed to get a mortgage (first member of our family EVER to live in their own house!!!

Then they emigrated.....and it all went very wrong quickly. Mhy sister-in-law became pregnant again, and my brother did not want any more children. He abandoned his family in the foreign country, having already fallen out with the civil authorities there and returned to England. That, my father could NOT forgive!!!!!

These actions meant that when his wife and three children were eventually able to return to her parents home, they were forbidden by those g.parents of having anything whatoeve to do with her husband's family ever again. Broke my parents heart not seeing their two eldest g.children and the new baby.

My brother would disappear for years at the time, then turning up, bright and breezy as if nothing had happened. I even had him living with myself and hubbie for a short time, until he started his usual way of NOT paying any rent. Visited him when he was in hospital having been knocked down on a zebra crossing- even persuaded a close friend who was a solicitor to take on his case. All fine, until not long before this was due to go to court, he did one of his disappearing acts along with a van full of cigaretes he was supposed to be delivering. Even went to visit him in Ford open prison!!!

He re-appeared not long before our Mum died - in her hospital bed she asked my Dad to try to keep a relationship with their son. Bless him, he did try........for six weeks, when son borrowed money and disappeared yet again. This time if was eleven years during which time Dad also died.
Then one evening I had a phone call full of jokes and good humour from my brother - he was now in his 70's, unwell, and lonely - and remembered he had a sister. For the next three or four years he was a constant part of my life. Telephoning me nearly every day , treating MY children to presents and meals out I did remind him that he was now a g.parent and might be good to see his own childen). He met his son once, made a further arrangement and failed to turn up. His daughter refused to see him, as did the youngest born after he had abandoned the family and whom he NEVER saw.

He ended in hospital and one of my children actually walked with his trolley down to the operating theatre, for an procedure from which he never recovered. He left debts which I covered as well as paying for his funeral. Yes, I was sad at losing my only sibling, but TBH was so used to his long absences it was just like one of those.

Fortunately, as my niece and nephew left their other g.parents home to get married, etc. they recontacted my parents and did have a good relationship with them and with me, which continues to this day. My anger at my brother reached its zenith when I read of my niece's wedding in a newspaper announcement and drove my parents to sit in the public gallery to watch their eldest g.child get married!!!

So, many years down the line - I do see my brother's children, grand children and g.grandchildren quite regularly and my own children have good relations with these cousins.

Reading so many sad enstrangement stories I just wanted to put this down, to say that there can be a happy ending in these cases, no matter how rotten one individual can be.

Thanks so much Allsorts. Yes I suspect a few of us are wondering the same thing about our children.

Blackmail and the attempted coercion was awful, but I was determined not to give in as I don't want to be having the same or worse problems when I'm much older.

Good point Violetsky. Some people don't appreciate anything.

Hetty58 thanks. I cant regret it because the emotional abuse is over. I will probably be a bit sad at Christmas, but not sad enough to compromise my well being and standards for someone who seems hell bent on destroying me.

OnwardandUpward, it's so hard to do the right thing but you should have peace of mind - and be proud of yourself for not allowing him control. When your GC are older, they can make their own decisions about contact.

How can two children treated the same turn out so differently? I don't think we'll ever know the answer to that question Allsorts.

Plan and enjoy a wonderful Christmas this year!

I do not miss hours and hours looking for the perfect gift for people who never appreciated it

Onward, you have done the right thing hard as it has been. You stood fast against his illegal demands. Blackmail is terrible but more so when it’s your son using his own children. Hopefully in time your gc will seek you out as I’m sure they will remember their loving grandparents and uncle. How can two children treated the same turn out so differently?

Thank you Oreo.

Not being sure if you'd been able to see/speak to your GC even if you had gone along with his demands shows that you've done the right thing Onward.

The only way to 'win the game is to stop playing'. It's a heartbreaking choice to have to make but sometimes it's the only one.

Onward

Deciding how to move forward is part of the healing process.

Hope you enjoy xmas this year!

OnwardandUpward I feel sorry for your loss, for loss it certainly is.My Father ran his parents ragged, embarrassed and shamed them.You’ve done the right thing.
Hope you’ll see your DGC in the future.
Smileless I think you’ve written some lovely thoughtful posts.
CrazyH Good on you for keeping on trying with your girls.

It's so cruel isn't it Smileless. The last but one conversation I had with him he said GC wanted to see me and wanted to talk to me, but then he came round without them and proceeded to put a lot of pressure on me to do things I wasn't ok with. I'm not even sure if whether I had gone along with him that I'd have been able to see/talk to them.

Yes "some parents" will have a lot of explaining to do about why they denied their kids what they had, a functioning and happy family Christmas.

Thanks Norah. I didn't have any expectations, just hopes. And those were dashed, repeatedly. He means me bad and not good, and it took me a long time to admit that to myself.

OnwardandUpward I no longer have any uncertainty in my life. My son would never make plans to see me, leaving me waiting and hoping in vain.

Well done you, acknowledging "There is no trust (from me) and no respect (from him) so not much can be done."

Unmet expectations are so often at the root of problems.

Using children as weapons is so cruel. They can get used for emotional blackmail and when that doesn't work as the ultimate punishment; do what I/we want or you wont see them.

Some parents will have some very difficult questions to answer in the future.

CrazyH, I'm glad for you and the girls that you were not stopped. I was told my GC wanted to talk to me, but then prevented from doing so. DS also told me GC wanted to come to our house, but also prevented that too. I'm sure it was calculated to hurt. But he has hurt his child.

Sorry it's rough on the pocket, I know GC are expensive but well done you for keeping some kind of contact. I would have if I could, but all that was on offer was contact with my son- and all he offered was "work" that was extremely dodgy.

I'm so sorry for all who are estranged too

As some of you may know, I was on the precipice of ‘estrangement’ - oh the cruel, cruel things that were said to me.
But, I couldn’t bear the thought of not seeing the little girls, and they didn’t stop me. I used to go over, play with them for an hour, while parents were upstairs.
Things are not 100% now. For eg. I have advent calendars for them. I will drop them off at the other grandma’s house. D.I.l. and girls are usually there after school. So, I will time it for about 3.30 so I can see them.
Another sad thing is, this middle son, does not have any sort of relationship with my daughter either. It’s all so sad. The only time they will see one another, is in January, when I’m treating the family to Dinner and a night away. Very hard on my purse, but worth it if they see each other once a year.
So sorry for all who are estranged or are in pain for one reason or another. Take care all ….xx

Yes, I know nothing is set in stone. I am keeping busy and have many good things in my life.

He caused me so much anxiety and problems that my health is better for his absence, which is the only upside. I would never have chosen this, but his behaviour has. It helps that my husband and his brother are united with me in the way that we feel.

If we don't chase him at Christmas, I think he will be surprised. He's gone too far. Not too far to be forgiven, but too far to continue without some self reflection and change. If we chase him, it will all start up again and that helps no one.

Choices have consequences. He can see how he likes the first Christmas on this earth without parents and siblings. He can see what a jolly Christmas he will have for his offspring without GP and Aunts/Uncles. It's the GC I feel sorry for, but I'm not the parent and cannot do anything about it. I also know it's not my responsibility to make sure his offspring have a joyous Christmas, it's his. I do know that he is not in touch with anyone he is genetically related to and that's a real shame for his offspring, in particular.

Travel hopefully and maybe in the fullness of time relationships may be repaired that brought tears to my eyes mumofmadboys.

You are estranged at the moment but who knows what the future holds? Your DS may come to his senses or he may have a brush with the law. You have done the right thing . Travel hopefully and maybe in the fullness of time relationships may be repaired.

Thanks so much Wyllow3 and Smileless

There is a history of estrangement in the family, with my mother estranging us from her family and trying to stop us having anything to do with GP. So I am genuinely sorry for GC because I know what it's like to suddenly not have Aunts and Uncles anymore-and to be denied time with GP. I am annoyed with DS for doing this to his offspring , not just for his treatment of me. I always allowed my kids full access to my family, but now ask myself if something rubbed off or if it can be genetic to have estrangment in a family?

I have tried very hard not to estrange anyone...