Friendship, advice and support if estrangement has affected your life.

So sorry August. It doesn't mean that the mother has said anything horrible. Kids are quite capable of making their own minds up and she might be upset about something you have overlooked. Have you considered family therapy?

So sorry for your experience too Yogini . The paranoia that comes from drug taking has made him unsafe to be around, both physically and emotionally. I just hope my GC are safe.

I'm so sorry you've been treated that way AnneWilson

I'm totally with you on that Allsorts. My ES has yet to tell me exactly what I'm supposed to have done but I'm over beating myself up about it.

I'm sorry it's been ten years smiles and yogin but it goes to show you can weather this horrible thing and keep on going.

That's so sad Whiff - not a word but a response when given a deadline for money.

My shopping just arrived, I'll post this bit before I lose it ...

I'm sorry you have been put through so much Whiff. I too have gained the courage to speak about this in real life due to the support of smiles, you whiff and all the other wonderfully supportive people. Sorry your friend has to isolate. Hope she doesn't get unwell.

Goodness onwards - that's an awful way to feel.

So sorry to hear what's happening with your daughter AugestWest For others to deliberately turn her against you is dreadful and heartbreaking. I'm glad you got the visitation rights and I hope as time goes on she will begin to question things for herself and get a better perspective. I agree with the advice from Smiles. She's a wise lady.

Sorry August I was by no means saying don't post here, but thought you'd get more useful information from those in the same situation as yourself, fathers & mothers. They can give you insight that only those that have trod that path can.

When I got divorce from my children's father, even though he never gave any child support, I never stopped them seeing each other as I thought that cruel. I told them to love him as he was their father. So other than that, I have no knowledge to share with you, perhaps others on here have. Best of luck.

Unfortunately children can be too easily influenced by the parent they're living with, especially if the other parent's having their access denied through no fault of their own.

If only there were more mums like you Yogin who allowed their children to continue their relationship with their father, rather than using them.

Just think, regardless of how our EAC and/or their partners feel about us, if they'd put their children before their own petty grievances, we'd at least be able to see our GC.

Our problem hugs is we never did the things we've been accused of. His wife's projected her own dysfunctional childhood experiences onto out ES, and he's gone along with it.

Goodness knows why, and we're unlikely to ever find out.

Says it all doesn't it Whiff, when there's money involved they respond, if it's anything else we've ceased to exist.

We're waiting for the engineer to come and (hopefully) repair our fridge freezer today. Fingers crossed it can be done, if not we're on a repair or replace scheme but we live in a town house with the kitchen diner on the first floor.

American style/size fridge freezer, tight turn at the top of the stairs. It was a pain when we moved in so prefer not to have it replaced.

He's just arrived.

It's fixed. Need to come back with a new door but thank goodness it's working again.

When I got divorced from the kids father, he still had access even though he was abusive. I never ran him down to them, but tried to concentrate on things he was good at or did well.

Despite my attempts to facilitate contact, the youngest was never interested so contact tapered off when he was a teen (he regards his stepdad as his dad because sometimes its not blood but who's kind) and the middle one was so upset by his dads constant favouritism of the eldest that he stopped contact in his early 20's. Hes the one that has suffered the most because his dad only blatantly bigged up the eldest- so the middle one felt very hurt and left out by his dad .

I think my ex hated the younger two because they look like me. He used to belittle my appearance in front of them and he was horrible to the younger ones for looking like me. I can't even begin to cover the harm he did them before I left and afterwards- and people have no idea why I left him. They don't want to know him as adults and it's not because of me. He had tried to make me get an abortion when I fell pregnant with the youngest and had also spread rumours that the child was not his. Anyone who sees my youngest would know he is a top class liar.

Thank God I don't have to have anything to do with this man anymore. I have many years of biting my lip and encouraging my kids to continue a relationship with someone so unstable and abusive that I am not sure I should have. As adults they have chosen not to have anything to do with him despite my best efforts. I don't believe in estrangement, but Low Contact if space is needed at times.

So sad about your Daughter in Law and son Smileless. I guess he took the path of least resistance, unless like my son he went on a drug trip with someone to "interpret" for him. Those people like the shamans who turned my son against me are pure evil liars and only want to get the money for their services.

Hope your fridge freezer can be fixed!

I just said all that because it's not always the Mother who's fault it is. It can be, but every situation is different.

I can honestly say hand on heart, with a clear conscience that I did my absolute best and it was not easy- I did choose to marry my current husband in order to get support from a like minded person to parent them well, try to address what they had been through, provide a stable and kind role model. Even that was not enough as my ES was so damaged by his father and is angry with the world. He blames us even though we were the only ones to care- I guess he will always feel that rejection from his father (and blame me) but it was always that way. In truth his Father only wanted one child and I talked him into having a brother for him, thinking he would bond- but he didn't. In that way, I suppose it IS my fault, but I couldn't have foreseen it. He had been abusive over the years and I thought I deserved it, but he became more abusive after we unexpectedly concieved a third child and I refused to abort. That was when my eldest went to school and mentioned the abuse at home, at school and I was put into a situation when I had to take action to protect my kids.

He had to see them with someone else present, but I didn't stop him seeing them. It does annoy me that he told lies to gain the sympathy of others, but ultimately his own kids know who and what he is. Even his Golden child.

No Onward, it isn't your fault. Victims of abuse are more often than not made to feel responsible for their abusers behaviour.

It's tragic that your ES has been so badly damaged by his father and even more tragic that he's turned away from the mother who clearly loves him.

Thank you for your explanation Smileless on what bread crumbing means. I really don’t like these terms, but years ago it was said just give enough crumbs to keep them on side, the fact is you don’t treat anyone like that, it’s nasty, it’s like not speaking to people until they do what want, sending someone to Coventry. It’s controlling and has nothing to do with love, why would a nice person consider treating people like that. Once your ac has resorted to that you’ve lost the battle, I won’t play games to try to change that person even my own child because the respect for you has gone, I don’t see how you get them back by in turn trying to control such people. I don’t want to be that person , It’s like H badmouthing his father and brother and expecting an apology from them. I treat people as I want to be treated and want to be a nice person so they must do what they want.
Annie I’m glad you had the courage to do what you did, you did the right thing, there’s lots of people out there worthy of your love that won’t throw it back in your face.

Smileless2012

No Onward, it isn't your fault. Victims of abuse are more often than not made to feel responsible for their abusers behaviour.

It's tragic that your ES has been so badly damaged by his father and even more tragic that he's turned away from the mother who clearly loves him.

Thanks Smileless

It is tragic. Unfortunately I had no idea that the man I had kids with could only ever love his firstborn.
Their stepdad married me when the kids were very young , we hoped young enough to adapt and thrive with love. My husband has no other kids and has always loved them and thought of them as his own. He has a genetic hereditary disease . He is as heartbroken as I am. To lose kids and also Grandkids is just awful.
At least we still have the youngest, and pets. It doesn't make up for it, but it's something to live for.

Glad you got it fixed smiles. I know you didn't do the things you were accused of. That's what makes the situation so impossible, you can't fix something when the way it is broken is misrepresented.

It often isn't the mother to blame onwards but I do think society has some kind of attitude that does sometimes assume that. Which is just awful and is probably partly why I used to find talking about being estranged so difficult. I did think people would assume it was my fault.

I agree allsorts - a lot of the behaviour can be about controlling us, and it's very destructive to a relationship if you have one at all.

Wise words as always from Smiles ,Allsorts and Hugs.

August I can only tell you what happened when my brother's second marriage finally ended after years of his wife wanting to be married then didn't then wanting my brother back. When they finally spilt his youngest daughter was 8 her brother and sister went with my brother as they are 14 and 10 years older than her. He could have her for a weekend every 2 weeks. But he daren't be a minute early to pick her up or a minute late dropping her off. Her mother did bad mouth my brother but her siblings soon told her the truth. They have always had a good relationship.

But as she was 8 and played her parents off against eachother. Her mom would say she couldn't have something. Then she would say to my brother mom said you would you buy me so and so. Which caused rows . She did this until she was 13. But luckily she always loved her dad and siblings. Glad to say she has grown into a lovely woman of 20 even though she was a brat as a young girl.

I know this probably won't help you any but I have no other experience to share with you. But having a daughter and son myself found a vast difference between how they acted at the same ages. But by the age of 14 he caught up with how my daughter was. There is a 4 year age gap between them. But we had to tell them both at 17 and 13 their dad had cancer and wouldn't live 5 years. He died when they where 20 and 16.

Both my children where loving and caring . My son after his dad died sent me a wedding anniversary card because he thought I still had them had to explain that ended when his dad died. And as a widow was classed as single which I still hate to this day . I am married as far as I am concerned and always will be.

Both my children became very protective after their dad died and after they both left home permanently insisted I text everyday to let them know how I was. To this day my daughter still wants the daily check in . And yet it's one of the things my son threw back in my face in his email . In his words he was sick of the daily texts and had been for years and yet I only did what they both wanted.

With estranged adult children you can't win . So I don't play that game. Like everyone here the hurt never goes away but nor does the love you had for the child you knew. We had always been an open family no subject was ever taboo. If the children wanted to know something and we didn't know what certain things meant it was off to the library to research no Google in those days. Usually it was to do with sexual terms. I have to laugh looking back and some of the things I found out for them. Good job I am not the sort of person who gets embarrassed about things.

I didn't cause this estrangement it's what my son and daughter in law wanted. I had no choice. Didn't even see it coming. My lovely son in law after the emails did say he thought something was wrong but didn't want to hurt me. That's the difference between my daughter and son in law they never want to hurt me unlike my son and daughter in law have in words and actions. It was only after the zero contact letter my daughter and brother told me things they had protected me from for years. Note to all estranged children don't plaster things on Facebook if you don't want to be found out. I never wanted to be on Facebook . But an on a closed Facebook page for HPX like the support thread they have helped me so much . And because they are willing to share their experiences I now know I am normal for someone with HPX and not weird.

Anyway. Smiles glad your fridge freezer is working again. It's funny how much we depend on kitchen appliances. When you think freezers only became affordable for the working man in the 70's. Mind you I remember our first video recorder in 1986 cost £325 . Funny how I remember that but it took me 2 days to remember where I put my grandson's birthday presents.🤦.

True to their word have an appointment to see my cardiologist on the 24th. Funny hope quickly my month fills up. Tuesday met up with some of my craft friends at a Wetherspoons for a hot drink. 99p for unlimited mugs of tea a bargain and good tea as well. Yesterday had shopping delivered today craft group. My brother and sister in law plus Aggie are coming the weekend hopefully. They where with friends on Monday who tested positive for Covid but they are doing daily tests so hopefully they will still be negative on Saturday morning . 13th need to book blood tests at my surgery, 20th seeing my neurologist. Then the end of the month it's my grandson's 5th birthday. February so far is just craft group every Thursday, but I do want my friends from exercise class to come to lunch to repay the lunch one gave before Christmas. Funny how much we missed eachother.

Hopefully my neurologist can get me some physio if not will be cheeky and see if my GP can refer me back to the active ageing sit fit group. You are supposed to wait a year but my mobility is getting worse and I miss the social aspect of doing exercise with others. Found other sit fit groups but they are to far away on the bus.

Luckily my friend hasn't caught Covid but still has to isolate for a few more days. Most of her late husband's paperwork is with the solicitor and accountant she's just waiting for a couple of companies to contact her. Then it's just the wait for the experts to do their jobs. I have told her not to rush back to work as she is a counsellor and other people's problems will seem trivial compared to what's she's going through. I hope she never goes back to work. She doesn't need to as she only had her private practice 2.5 days a week. She talked about us meeting up when the weather gets warmer. So I have taken it as a good sign she is looking to the future. Hopefully I can persuade her to come and stay with me round about her birthday in July. Seems a long way off but my weeks fly by.

Have any of you booked holidays yet?

Well better get up and get on things to do before I have to leave for craft.

Take good care of yourselves.

https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202301/medium-934978-dscf3500.jpg https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202301/medium-881030-dscf3510.jpg

My days fill up so quickly too Whiff. I'm glad your appointment is sorted. Good to hear that your friend is clear of covid so far and that you've been enjoying your crafting and a good bargain brew.

We're still plodding on setting the bungalow to rights. We had an electrical safety check before we bought and knew we had a few jobs to do when we moved in. One of them was replacing the lights in the bathroom, as they weren't to a high enough safety standard though they looked fine. Well we had that and some other work done yesterday and I was shocked when I saw the bathroom after the electricians left. Surely it's not just me thinks this isn't acceptable:
They all have gaps around them where the steam can get in and if you try to change the bulb they feel like they are going to fall out of the ceiling,
They are coming back today and I'll have to say I'm not happy with this. The trouble is it makes me wonder if all the work is ok if they think this is fine.
Also got the dentist today. Not the most fun day to look forward to all round.

https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202301/medium-999124-img-20230105-111429360.jpg https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202301/medium-441025-img-20230105-111424549.jpg

Hugs they have left your lights in a state. Looks like they cut the holes to big to start with and then knocked some plaster off the ceiling. When they come back today make sure they use plaster for the repair make sure they don't use the silicone foam filler if they do you will have a problem with condensation forming on the silicone filler. By the look of it it may need a couple of costs of plaster as they have exposed the strands in the plaster board. Once the plaster is dry it will need a mist coat before painting. I am no DIY expert but picked up a few things by having jobs done and asking a lot of questions.

Mr S might be able to advise you better as he did such a lot of work on his and Smiles flat.

I was luck most of my workmen I used came from recommendations but the couple I found myself where also very good and never left a mess.

The other week I had a cross stitch sampler come through the post and thought it was my gift for having my work published in the magazine. But it must have been a prize from a competition I entered on Gathered because yesterday I had the above with a note thanking me for my letter and here were my gifts.

At craft group yesterday one of my friends had brought a cross stitch kit years ago and will never get round to doing it so asked if I would like it. It's lovely so next week will take her a jar of my lemon marmalade as a proper thank you.

Finished my latest cross stitch yesterday. Already decided my next piece of work.

Busy day ahead so will have to pace myself . Do a bit then have a rest.

Hope you get on alright at the dentist today Hugs.

https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202301/medium-531320-img-20230105-172641523.jpg https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202301/medium-536881-img-20230105-155322243.jpg

This my steampunk owl. I will frame it and have some cogs to stick on the frame. Kit from my friend.

Love your owl Whiff! So clever!

Wow, you sound very knowledgable Whiff. Thank you so much. I shall certainly take that on board before the come back this afternoon.
The cross-stitch sampler looks lovely and the steam punk owl is fab.
Right, off to the dentist for me, now.

Looks great Whiff! Afraid my eyes not good enough for cross stitch now, but I did enjoy doing it in the past. Like the sound of lemon marmalade 😊

Thank you hugs. It's good that you are gradually crossing off that long list of things to do which is inevitable when you move to a new home.

We bought ours as a fully refurbishment but still had issues. When looking around on one occasion before completion, I pointed out to the estate agent that one of the ceiling lights in the en suite was hanging down. She said it was a simple straightforward matter of pushing it back in, so I said 'great, no reason for it not to be sorted before we come for another look a around then'.

You're right not to be satisfied with the lights in the bathroom, do make sure you don't pay until the work's done to your satisfaction.

Hope your dental appointment went OK. I hate going to the dentist but drag myself there every 6 months anyway.

A woman of many talents for sure Whiff. The advice you gave hugs is what Mr. S. would have advised too. Your cross stitch is lovely.

Great news about your appointment for later this month, and fingers crossed that you get the physio you need to help with your mobility. Lemon marmalade sounds lovely, I like the lime one.

Difficult to avoid Harry's latest car crash in the guise of his memoirs isn't it. My heart goes out to Charles and William. The attempted trashing and public humiliation is toe curling and I say attempted because I think he's scored an own goal with this one, and the 3 interviews to promote it haven't even been aired yet.

Not sure how the book went on release in Spain when apparently all the boxes had written on them 'not to be opened until January 10th'. Now one or two shops getting it wrong could be believed, but stores across the country.

Shouldn't think H's very happy about it as there's no real need to buy it now the so called 'revelations' are in the public domain. Wonder if he'll blame the Palace or a member of the RF for this leak too.

Been a bit weepy today about all the H stuff as it's so upsetting . Am devastated for Charles. For W & K & kids, For the RF . For the country and for H's kids! For security risks!

This afternoon I saw a friend pushing a pram with her new grandson in and had to congratulate her and admire the baby. She was on the way to pick up her other grandson from school. Came home and cried. Not a close friend (hadn't seen her for ages), but you know, still at least I managed to congratulate her and keep the estrangement inside.

to you all

It's hard to listen too and read about isn't it Onward as it stirs up the pain of our own estrangements .

That's hard too isn't it, congratulating someone on the birth of their GC when you miss your own.

Your response to the estate agent was spot on smiles.

Sorry you had a difficult afternoon onwards. Well done for being able to congratulate your friend. xx

The rest of the electrical work is looking good and is finished. New, larger bezels are on order for the light fittings to be fixed. They rang around and found a workable solution which sounds fine.

Still a fair few things to fix but it's so good to see the list shrinking. We knew we were taking on a bit of work but we still love the bungalow and the neighbours we have met so far seem very nice.

Our new dentist was also very nice and I came away without it costing an arm and a leg so very happy with that. Mr Hugs has to pop back soon for a little work but nothing too drastic.

I have a writing workshop most of the day tomorrow then we plan to pop down to the shops and try and find some eggs. No eggs at our local supermarket for the last four weeks.

Hugs not knowledgeable just nosey and like to know what people are doing and why. I am a chatterbox so if I have tradesmen in I do like to talk. I spent to many years without anyone to talk to on a daily basis . That's why I still talk out loud to my husband. I used to worry if I didn't use my voice I would get to the point where I didn't want to talk . Silly I know.

Smiles my marmalades are done my own way . I can't shred the peel . I cook the whole citrus fruit deseed and blitz with a stick blender . Takes me 2 days to make a batch . I can't do it in one day as I get to tired. The texture isn't like normal marmalade but tastes delicious.

Onwards I remember holding my daughter's youngest when he was 4 days old and shed a tear as my son's youngest would have been born 4 months before. I knew I would never get to hold him or even know his name. So I understand how you feel.

Unfortunately are estranged children just don't care. It's all about them . They cause so much pain and deprive our grandchildren the joy of knowing their grandparents and us knowing them. As my son's oldest would have forgotten me by now..

Yes Smileless very hard to do!
Yes, they do deprive the kids of knowing they are loved by us, so sad. So sorry Whiff . I'm glad you do have GC to hold, but so sad for the others.
Your marmalade sounds amazing! Is it a recipe or is it your own invention?

They don't seem to care, like Harry doesn't seem to care. It's all about how he wants them, but he isn't making the right actions to reconcile and Actions do speak Louder than Words. I don't think Charles can give into his demands, either, or trust him.

Thanks Hugshelp , I hope you find some eggs! That's a long time without!

Just to be clear for the people who think I'm only posting about estranged kids, when my mother cut off her side of the family I was devastated to lose them all- cousins, the lot. When she estranged from us about a decade ago and moved away in secret my kids were absolutely DEVASTATED and it was the start of my ES's MH breakdown. I had forgotten that, until today. Estrangement has whipped our family. All of it done by my Mother and my ES.