Friendship, advice and support if estrangement has affected your life.

That's heartbreaking about the hospital Diddydot I'm glad you found he strength to see it as a wake up call.
The last time I was in hospital my ES was very angry that my family let him know - he didn't need the stress.. He didn't visit which was fine—he lives a long way away, but blaming me for being in hospital again seemed a rather odd reaction. I'd much rather not have been there. It's one of the things he holds against me. Being ill too often.

I do know what you mean onwardsandupwards. I sometimes think my tendency to want to keep giving and mydesire to keep the peace has a lot to do with the way my ES sees me. I have a friend who has always been very shouty and blunt. Her son and daughter both estranged her very briefly. But she had no truck with their nonsense, gave them a sharp talking to, and told them it was their loss. They came scurrying right back!

As you say Allsorts it's so easy to blame ourselves and make excuses for them. The spa break sounds wonderful.

Hope you feel better after a good rest Yogin.

Back to some unpacking for me today.

Allsorts , that sounds amazing. I feel so rough with this virus. It would be lovely to be sitting in one of those big bubbly jacuzzis, right now. A spa break would be amazing.

I'm thankful for this forum because it exposes the cruel truth and provides support for those who need it. I hope people who read it will understand and have compassion for estranged people instead of blaming and judging. I also hope that estranged children will read and see how this is going to affect their kids.

Every generation thinks they will do better than the last. But every generation makes mistakes and is affected by the previous one.

Avoidant estranged kids who are parents will bring up kids with the example of, if you dont like something you avoid it. So, what happens when they grow up and their parents do something they don't like?

I think it would be better to do LC so you can mirror mature behaviour to your kids and teach them conflict resolution, negotiation and healthy boundaries. Kids are taught about Emotional Regulation and Resilience at school- they are not taught to be avoidant by school- but their parents, if they are estranged from their parents will affect them. Either they will long for the GP they have lost, or they might become avoidant to their parents when they are grown up, lacking compassion, thinking everything is about them.

I know I longed to see my GP more. I'm glad my Mother was at least LC with them, but she estranged from other family members who I have missed my whole life. I loved playing with my cousins and visiting my Aunty and Uncle- they left a huge hole in my child sized heart when my Mother estranged them. She got what she wanted by cutting them out of the family, which was to inherit all the money from her parents, but at what expense?

I see what you mean about the Christmas smileys now Yoginimeisje Hope you don't have this horrible virus too.

What a lovely post: QuoteSmileless2012 Mon 26-Dec-22 18:15:20

Just to clarify; when I said about where are all the Xmas smileys gone, I didn't mean the GN posters I meant these: and at Xmas time they always have an Xmas hat on

Feeling very tired today, hope it was just all the cooking & clearing up, which I was still doing before going to bed last night. Woke with a rough sore throat & cough!

Terrible to hear you were in hospital where your DD worked and she didn't even pop in to visit you Dibby

Lovely post everyone, even though sad to read.
Take care all xx

Good morning everyone. Only just beginning to see that maybe this virus I've had could go away. I felt at times I just couldn't be bothered, I would sleep, wake and just felt so bad it seemed never ending.
Reading Dibbies posts and I could have cried, how dare these selfish AC treat a mother, anyone really, like that. It took me years not to find excuses, we all are so proud of out C, want them happy and well, automatically think we must be at fault if they treat us bad. . I don't make excuses any more, I would never treat anyone badly least of all my family who love me. Like everyone at times I have been thoughtess and immeduetely put it right. The regret is the years it took for me to realise that when people, even your child, show you what they are really like, believe it. I have no trust in my d now, she obviously felt herself entitled to make my life hell and me feel worthless. .
It would be lovely if I had my dh, but I don't know he would have stood for what I have, he wouldn't have put up with the nonsense from the very beginning. He would say if that's how she wants it, she's got it.
Let's all,just not shed a tear for what they have become, realise that we were enough before we had children,,we are now.
For tge first time ever,going to book a spa break and get some pampering, just going to find one not too far away like the other end of the country and spoil myself.
Love to everyone.

PS My friend aforementioned has had large and loud family rows with her kids this year (I haven't with mine) yet this Christmas all is well and harmonious for her and her kids & grandkids.

I am not the "rowing type", but I do wonder if I had shared a few home truths, if there would have been more respect? Words can hurt and I was worried about making things worse, so I have always responded and not reacted. This may mean that I have been quiet at the time and taken time to think before saying anything.

ES has shared many things he feels I failed him in (all of which I did my best at the time ) but he has failed me many times and caused me much pain- and I have not told him those home truths. Mainly I have taken his abuse and not responded in case I made it worse.

He does not respect me. I have always been the type to respond, not react- but I don't know if it would have helped to be more like my friend and say whatever I thought. Every family is different.

But he has caused much pain and I think, deliberately and calculatedly. Even though I have not reacted or said anything horrible, I do believe he will reap what he sowed and that a kind of karma will come on him. I wouldn't wish bad on him, but I don't think his actions will bring good in the long run to him and I wish he would be the one to grow from this and learn how to navigate family relationships better for the sake of his DC, who deserve to know the love of uncles, aunts, grandparents and cousins.

I can always say, to the best of my knowledge, hand on heart that I have done my absolute best for him, even though there have been mistakes and things he didn't like. I have never pretended to be perfect and have always been willing to discuss things.

I have done everything for this boy. Its not mutual. I can't think of him ever putting himself out for me. Even when things were "better", if I asked him for a drink of water or to go to the shop he would endlessly complain.

What he doesn't realise is, is that he will destroy every other relationship he has, because of his bitterness and paranoia- unless he is willing to move on. He is extremely controlling to his partner and DC, which is not a recipe for healthy relationships. He has tried to control me. Indeed, the only way to get along with him is to be controlled. This is why he doesn't allow his partner or DC to mix , have friends or even attend education. His partner puts up with it, but she may one day realise she's being coerced and ask for help. There is no help for her until she reaches that point, but I would rather that he understands that his insecurity and need to control others has wrecked every relationship.

Last time he spoke to me, he admitted that DiL had wanted to visit us, but that he had stopped her. She has no other family. I hate what he is doing to them. He stopped us seeing GC on their birthday's and didn't explain why, just emotional abuse. That's why I just stopped replying.

I think the truth of the matter is, he was really rattled last time the GC visited as they had such a wonderful time and did not want to go home (because he goes on his phone all the time and doesn't make an effort to play or take them outside) I think they talked about us endlessly and he got angry. But he has punished his DC and is not meeting their needs. He does not care for them, only for his own ego. Perhaps I should have given him those home truths. But I am enjoying the peace of not being emotionally abused too much.

People should never judge Estranged Parents, they should try to listen and know that we have done our best.

People should also look out for couples and their kids, who seem restricted- and talk to them. Maybe the Mother doesn't have family and is being coerced. Maybe the DC are not allowed out much. They were under Social Services but ES convinced them everything was good and I suspect it is not, but have no proof.

Love is not coercion and control, manipulation or restriction. Love is allowing others to love your partner and child, too.

Thank you for sharing ENO. I'm sorry for the loss of your father. It must have been difficult taking on a supportive role with your mum under the circumstances, but how wonderful that you've managed to do so.

We can all change, it's just sometimes we need the impetus to do so, and importantly, know that we'll be accepted without retribution. Wow, that is such a powerful statement and so true.

Oh you did the right thing Onward no way would you want to risk bumping into your ES on Boxing day of all days.

A couple of days after we moved here, I just couldn't stop crying. Mr. S. looked desperate and eventually asked me if we'd made a mistake, if I regretted the move. It was the exact opposite.

I was so relieved to be away from them, including the GC. I'd cried so much during those 4 years that the amount I cried that day shocked me TBH. I thought I was all cried out but it was the relief and no longer feeling afraid.

Not having to be afraid to go out of the front door, to see them, to be ignored and be blanked by our GC because they didn't even know who we were.

There has to be communication and a desire to want a relationship, to put things right and to allow love to be triumphant but we can't do that alone, they have to want it too and I honestly don't think I do anymore.

I know how you feel Smileless , a bit. Today DH suggested a place to walk the dog but it's a very popular place. I suggested a less popular place where we are unlikely to accidentally bump into ES.

So sorry Scotty. That's such a shame. I'm glad you get to see your GC, for their sake as well as yours.

My friend has had her GC (and their parents) staying for the entire Christmas. They have had their ups and downs, so I'm happy for them. No arguments and all seems well for them. A few months ago I heard her tell her son that he ruined her life, so I guess there is hope for everyone, with good communication and the will. It's better for the kids who have the benefit of being loved by so many people at once.

Dogs are definitely loyal. Also their love is unconditional. Thank God for dogs!

So sorry about your E daughter , Dibbydod. That's really sad even you being in the same hospital. Only one thing springs to mind why she may be LC - she may be suffering from Compassion Fatigue. Often people working in hospitals are so emotionally drained from their jobs that they suffer that- and it does affect relationships. You could ask her if she is suffering? Perhaps she doesn't have anything left to give?

You're right Smileless , it is hard to post for the first time and I think I was in denial for the past few years. Thanks so much for your support here and to all seasoned supporters.

I’ve been reading this thread, not commenting knowing that I’m lucky that I’ve not yet had any real problems with relations with either child now they’re grown.
I will share my experience: my father died in October, after two years of decline, being bed bound for the last six months of his life. My mother was supported by carers, and as he was in complete denial about his condition, his mood was sunny until the end.
Now before this all started I can say we had a cordial arms length relationship. We minded our own business and filtered what we shared.
My father had made all the decisions in their marriage of 60+ years. Once declining, he opted out, mainly through the need to sleep lots.
My mother firstly went into a defensive panic, then accepted help. I now do all paperwork and guild her in making those decisions, something she’s relived by at 87.
We had to travel a long road to get to this point and I can only offer thanks that we’ve both managed to be positive about this change.
We can all change, it’s just sometimes we need the impetus to do so, and importantly, know that we’ll be accepted without retribution.

We were in the same position Dibbydod with our ES and only GC living literally just up the road. We eventually moved after 4 years because I just couldn't stand it anymore. Never knowing if we'd see him or our GC out and about.

I'm so sorry that you had your 'wake up call' in such a brutal way. Knowing that your ED was working in the hospital where you'd been admitted must have been soul destroying and heart breaking.

You've done so well to draw that line in the sand, move on and rebuild your life. It takes courage to do what you've done so be proud of yourself. Have pride in how far you've come and take courage in how far you can go.

It also takes courage to share here for the first time, even though all you will ever get from the regulars here is support and understanding.

Our EAC have given up on us that's true, but we never give up on one another here. I've been posting on the support thread for getting on for 10 years, why?

Because if not for this support thread and those who post here, I don't know if I'd have been able to cope. Yogin was the first person to welcome me here all those years ago.

I still need the friendship and support and more importantly, I want to give that to anyone who needs it, whatever their circumstances.

Here you are among friends, who truly understand what you;re going through, so now you're here I hope you and Scotty will stay, and we'll face whatever 2023 has in store for us, together.

* Onward* that’s ok no worries , you weren’t to know , think it may be worse when they live nearby as it’s a constant reminder , especially as my eD lives just up the road .
Smileless thank you for your kind words . It were during my spell in hospital that it finally hit home that my eD didn’t want anything to do with me, up until then , I had hoped / were hoping, that this situation could be resolved somehow .One day when in hospital, I broke down , as my eD actually works in the hospital I were in , I kept thinking , why doesn’t she want to come and see her ill mum , it really broke my heart . Surprisingly , the nurse who comforted me told me that maybe it were the “ wake up “ call that I needed . And , yes m she were right , so , since then , I’ve gathered up the strength to put a line in the sand and move on . Suppose it’s so much easier on here to say how you feel as everyone understands .
Scotty so sorry to hear about your two adult children . Why is that our children do this to their mums without a proper explanation . Why can’t they be adult enough to talk it over . Today’s generation give up so easily , without a thought who they be hurting . It’s so true what you say , as I feel so much humiliated by admitting my eD to friends , in fact it were only recently that I’d finally told my one and only sister . She were annoyed that I’d not said sooner , but I told her it’s not easy for me to admit .
Hugshelp, thank you , and thank you all .💐

Thanks hugs.

Scotty So sorry about your son not speaking to you; 2 years can feel like a lifetime can't it.

Low contact with your D must be difficult too, but it's good that you see your GC and they able to stay over with you. Estrangement is truly heartbreaking and like you, Mr. S. and I are fortunate to have one another for support.

Please never feel humiliated, there is no shame in having an AC who wants nothing to do with you but wont say why. The shame is theirs not yours.

Oh yes Onward if only our ES's were more like dogs, especially when it comes to loyalty.

Good that you had a peaceful drama-free day onwards and upwards.

Lovely to see you again Diddydod. I'm sorry you got no response but at least you know you did your bit.

Merry Christmas Yogin. It's lovely that you still have some jumpers saved. Enjoy the beach!

Good to hear you had a lovely Christmas Grandmabatty

Sorry you're still unwell and feeling teary smiles.

Love, light and peace to you all.

Reading all your posts, it brings comfort that we aren't alone.

I have 2 adult children, a DS who hasn't spoken to us for over 2 years and a DD who does speak but is low contact. We are permitted to see DGC and they are allowed to stay over with us, but there is zero interest in our lives from either AC. We again spent Christmas Day alone, so went to the coast with our dogs.

We don't know what we've done wrong and have tried on several occasions to speak to AC to try to rectify this sad situation, but DS ignores our contact and DD says that nothing is wrong. Thankfully we have each other and can support each other when things get really painful, but this estrangement is the hardest thing I've ever had to face, and it breaks my heart to not be in relationship with my own children.

Thank you for those of you on this forum who understand and are brave enough to post, it does bring comfort to those of us in this situation and helps us deal with the humiliation of being rejected by those closest to us.

Dogs are brilliant aren't they Smileless. Always want to have fun and always happy to spend time with us. My ES used to get jealous of the dog. He actually tried to get me to part with the dog. Im so thankful I didn't obey all his whims because he is so unstable and always used to change the goal posts anyway, so whatever I did was wrong. Our dog was so happy yesterday with a gingerbread man toy and new dog chews plus a turkey dinner!

So sorry you were feeling unwell and tearful Smileless, it's hard feeling so ill on top of the seasonal challenges. If only our ES's were more like dogs! (loyal and easily pleased!)

Our Christmas day got off to a bit of a miserable start. Can't believe I still feel so crap but despite feeling under the weather, we had did have a lovely Christmas dinner, just took me longer to have it all ready.

DS face timed us and feeling unwell, I was unable to keep the tears at bay when we said goodbye. You're right Allsorts, when we don't feel well our emotions tend to have a mind of their own don't they.

After we'd finished talking to him, we opened our presents, starting with the dogs who were so thrilled with their little squeaky 'rugby' balls ,that we ended up laughing. Our little poodle loves to make up his own little games, so was hiding his under wrapping paper and then pouncing on it.

For 4 years, because we lived just down the road from our ES, I used to wonder if he'd come round on Christmas Eve if not Christmas day, so I understand Onward.

Of course he never did, and I said to Mr. S. on Christmas Eve how much easier our Christmas' have been since we moved here 6 years ago as since coming here, I've never had that hope.

You said you know you were a good daughter; never forget that. We know we were good parents. Our DS, family and friends make sure we don't forget that.

Dibbydod the moment someone posts here, they become part of this group where you will never be judged. I'm so very sorry that your ED was unmoved knowing you were so ill that you ended up in hospital.

Despite what they've done and said, it's virtually impossible to even contemplate that they'll never have anything to do with us again.

As you say Onward and Grandmabatty it's what they've done that we hate, and what they're doing to our GC, who are being deprived of their GP's and in many cases their extended family.

So difficult for those of you who when family meet, have 'the elephant in the room'. I'm grateful that we don't have to contend with that, and when I read about what some P's and GP's put up with for fear of being estranged, I'm glad to be out of it all.

It's good that so many were able to spend time with GC yesterday and that we all seem have enjoyed the day.

I don't hate my ES, but I do hate what he's done. To us, to his brother, to his kids.

Glad for you Grandmabatty , best wishes to you. We had an elephant in the room as well, so I understand. I am grateful that we had a nice time nontheless too.

I had a lovely Christmas day with dd, sil and the boys. I'm very lucky to have them as family and I appreciate all they do. I felt sad that my son has chosen to 'ghost' us all and he was definitely the elephant in the room. However we had a nice time nonetheless. I don't hate my son but I miss him terribly and I hope he is happy. Today I'll watch lots of tv and potter around. My best wishes to you all.

I have a wonderful husband too and a wonderful younger son who is kind and helpful. I don't think anyone would think you're rubbing salt in Yoginimeisje and I'm sure everyone is pleased for you that you have your GC. You shouldnt have to edit out your joy to avoid offending others because others could equally be offended with anything that anyone says, whatever it is.

Onwards Yes you're right re GC, I do try not to mention them on here, as I feel it may be rubbing salt into the wounds of those that don't have. But then I don't have a wonderful husband as Smiles & others on here have, and I do really envy them for that.

Thanks Yoginimeisje , despite feeling awful we did have a lovely dinner and a peaceful day. Even had some laughs with our youngest, who must have been missing the company of his brother.

I hate estrangement for our loss of kids and grandkids, but more than that I hate that my son lost brothers and nephews. I hate that my grandkids lost the only family home they were allowed to visit. Right now I hate my son for what he has done to his child more than what he has done to us, because as a child we were rarely allowed to see grandparents as my Mother hated them. Can't believe my son takes after her, but here we are again.

Obviously especially at this time of year I would like to say that I forgive my son, but with the best intentions in the world, I don't. I hope I can move forwards in the New Year.

Spring Hope you had a good game of tennis with your new friends and that you enjoyed the little ones.

Grandmabatty DSL and all on here, I hope you had a lovely Xmas day too.

Sorry to read your post Dibbydod I did the same as you with sending cards etc. Felt tons better when I stopped it all, took me 6.5yrs to get there though. It does no good contacting them, just stabbing yourself in the heart!

Allsorts Hope you got a good nights rest and enjoyed your Xmas day. I've recorded the Nutcracker, so will watch later.

Pixie Hope your Xmas with your DS was wonderful.

Whiff I'm sure you had a lovely Xmas day with your DD&GC, looking forward to hearing all about it.

Onwards Hope the flu is easing up with you & Hubby and that you managed to have a good Xmas day despite it, sounds like you did.

Oh no Dibbydod I'm so sorry. I don't know what to say except that distance in miles isnt always a guarantee of anything. My ES lives a few miles from me. I don't know exactly why - but he hasnt got his own way- and its probably that. I tried all of last year with him, but he treated me worse and worse before eventually cutting me off on a family birthday. I'm sure it was calculated to hurt the maximum amount.

Even though I was initially upset, I am doing better without his head games and cruelty (never knowing where I stood because he is all over the place), in all honesty and I'm more upset/concerned that he doesnt allow his wife/kids to mix with any family and friends.

Yoginimeisje sounds like you had fun, glad you're smiling. It might be because you had GC to spend time with. (I didnt) I'm also full of flu so not feeling smiley!

Love the jumpers Hugs you are very clever, my mum was a brilliant knitter, I kept some of her jumpers she knitted for me and the C when they were small. Hope you enjoyed your walk. I'm going to take a walk on the beach after this, the sun is out and it's dry!