Friendship, advice and support if estrangement has affected your life.

PIxie you have your DS with you now, which will make you light of heart and happy. As for your eldest S Xmas card; the younger generation do send cards like that now, coming over from USA trend. My DD sent one to me of my DGC in an Xmas scene. As you saw from my little Doggie Joey's Xmas scene from his groomers, if I hadn't been so enthralled and sent it to everyone, I may have sent that as my Xmas card this year, maybe next year I will. So maybe the card wasn't sent to rub your nose in the fact you don't see them, maybe an olive branch. But I can understand you felt upset when you saw it. I couldn't look at pictures of my lost GC that my DD would sometimes try to show me. Enjoy your Xmas with your DS xx

Off now for Xmas, just sitting watching the dear squirrels collecting their nuts from my garden, even in this pouring rain! And the lovely Dove couple eating their breakfast from my bird table. I just threw a few monkey nuts out, just in front of my patio doors and the squirrels are so near I could almost touch them.

Had fun doing my Xmas classes this week, everyone happy and in the festive mood. So I ask myself why I feel as if I could cry when I sit on my own with my thoughts, not even thinking of my estranged loved ones. Yet there they are, peeking over that ever so high wall I've built over these last 10yrs. 10yrs!! for what; a jealous, controlling son-in-law!

Do hope you are feeling better today Smiles and that you can make your special Xmas carol services, hope your voice holds up if you do. Such a lovely e-card you sent me, with lovely nativity video clip. Such a shame I can't put it up on the sideboard. I'm keeping it to show my DD&GC&S.

Thank you to everyone for all of your kind words over the months. Yes, my youngest son arrived yesterday and I am going out with him tomorrow for our tradition Christmas Eve lunch. He’s gone out today to visit some friends and we are having a take away tonight and probably making some cakes. He loves to bake.

I wish you all a very merry christmas and hope to catch up soon.

Best wishes to you all.

Hello Lilly so sorry to hear your story, stay here with us and hopefully get some solace and advise from us in the same sad boat. This time of year is hard, we are remembering those we loved and lost through passing away, but also those we loved and had taken from us in the most cruel and heartless way, knowing they live on, but without us in their lives.

Oh Whiff just read your post, hope you are feeling better and not so sad.

Like you I will never forgive, as I can never forget the immense cruelty of what my estD did to me and my darling little GD that I had such a special bond with [reason my s.i.l wanted me out] My estD wouldn't have done what she did if she hadn't of been with him, as he & his mother were the driving force behind the estrangement, but she could have said "no" to it all and saw us with the C without involving him.

Such an especially hard time of year, sending wishes to all for a peaceful Christmas and hope all those unwell get better soon.🧑‍🎄🌲

Been crying off and on most if the day, been quite unwell last few weeks, need food in and have to try tomorrow to get out regardless. It’s not as if I can ever have a reconciliation, though many do, but my cut off was so brutal and cruel, it’s not possible.
Anyway enough self pity. I wish you all a happy Christmas and hope whoever you’re with you enjoy it.

Oh dear Allsorts and Whiff, sorry to hear you are so low, hugs to you both. Its a bad time for anyone who is having problems, Christmas just seems to amplify any worries or heartaches.

We are sold this vision of happy families, gathered round a groaning table, all laughter and fun but for so many the reality is very different. I think this Christmas is going to be especially brutal for an awful lot of people. I'm just so grateful that I have a warm home and can feed myself......anything else is a bonus. Sounds naff, but I really do count my blessings.

Lily. Welcome to the thread, I hope you find comfort here, no you aren't being naive or foolish to be sucked in by your ex husband, narcs are very very clever. They are often charismatic and charming and they know exactly how to control and manipulate their victims.

It comes as no surprise that a Minister of the Church should be a narc. What better place to hide in plain sight, what better position to be in to be able to assert control and manipulate people. Narcs will always insinuate themselves into positions of power, it's how they operate.

As for him turning your children against you, sadly this is par for the course. It's part of their modus operandi. They are experts at turning people against each other, at ripping families apart. Hopefully one day the scales will fall from your childrens eyes and they will realise that they were just pawns in his nasty sadistic game.

Smiles and Allsorts and anyone else who is poorly, hope you feel better soon. I have felt quite grim this week, constant coughing which is so draining, thankfully covid test was negative. Gradually starting to feel slightly more human.

Anyway that's about it for now...except to wish you all the best.

To borrow from one of my favourite books, "The Wind in the Willows".......

In the immortal words of the Chief Weasal.

"The Condiments of the Season and a Preposterous New Year". 😂

And before I go a big thank you to this who so kindly sent me e-cards, unfortunately I haven't been able to open them yet, I will have to get my son to help me.

Im such a technophobe. I think I need some more computer lessons, I'll add them to my to do list for next year.

❤️❤️

Welcome Lilly4. I am sure your post will resonate with many here. Acceptance can bring both relief and sadness.

I'm sorry supporting your friend has brought so much grief back for you Whiff. I'm glad you are able to talk through it with us. As you so wisely say, this group of people offers us all the understanding that we sorely need. xx

Sorry you and Mr S are suffering so much smiles. You surely must be over the worst soon. xx

It sounds lovely watching the squirrels Yogin. Sorry the sadness insists on intruding.

Have a lovely time with your son Pixie.

Sorry that you're feeling low and unwell too Allsorts.

Oh dear. It can be a tough time of year. I was finding a home for the photo albums today, all those pictures of my children when they were small, my son smiling happily in all of them - not that you'd think so from what he says.

Getting a bit tired of the endless admin atm. We left lots of helpful stuff for the chap buying our house whereas we found nothing here. No electoral roll form which I know went out just before we moved in, and the last owners haven't taken themselves off it. No info on bin days, no instructions for the boiler or any appliances, nothing. They don't seem to have done much about changing their address so their mail is piling up here. We asked the EA to let them know but they haven't called for it.

Hugs....posts crossed. Yes the admin is the worst bit about moving. What a shame the previous owners were so unhelpful. Keep your pecker up, it will all come right in the end.

I still have some outstanding admin tasks. They can wait until I'm good and ready. Lol.

Old photos are difficult aren't they, so many memories. I still struggle.

But here's A funny thing. Since moving I have started listening to music again. I haven't been able to play any music since my husband died, now all of a sudden I can. I guess it's a sign I'm healing.

When he was a poor student my youngest son used to make me playlists on CDs as presents for Mother's Day or Easter. So thoughtful and imaginative and his choice of music was always spot on. I played one today whilst wrapping Christmas presents.

He is still as thoughtful and as considerate towards me as ever. All throughout the trials with his elder brother and all the heartache he caused my youngest has been my tower of strength, loving and supportive. I don't know how I would have managed without him.

Welcome Lily. It’s good you have found us, and I’m sure you’ll find comfort amongst people who understand. I certainly have. I don’t discuss estrangement in person as not many people get why it’s impossible to sit down and sort it out. My journey has been similar to yours - I stopped sending cards/gifts a couple of years ago, which has helped me heal. I’m also learning how to protect myself. I really value new friends who’ve never known my EC so don’t ask after them. I keep busy and plan interesting things to do, and likewise am grateful for so many things, not least a warm home and food. This evening a family with 2 primary aged sons invited us to go and play table tennis with them. We may not see our own gc but like you I feel that surrogate gc have come into our lives, and we had a wonderfully happy evening. I’ve given up feeling guilty. I also apologised for everything I could think of, but no apology was good enough and I ended up feeling much worse. That’s what made me realise things weren’t going to change. I’ve had some pretty distraught Christmases, but this year I’m ok. It will be just the 2 of us, and we’re already enjoying the sense of calm and peace. I’m sure EC justify to themselves what they do, otherwise they wouldn’t/couldn’t do it. I can’t imagine living with having made that decision though. Which is why I wish my EC well and hope they are happy in their chosen life. There will always be a hole in our life, but I’m discovering it gets smaller as the years go by.

Sorry to hear there are a number on here who are unwell. It no doubt makes it harder to deal with the emotions of this time of year. We’ve all learnt the down days do pass though, so hold on and I hope the season brings some treasured moments.

Just a quick pop on. Wise words as always Yogin.

Hope all of your who are feeling so ill I hope you feel better soon. I know how a virus knocked my daughter and grandson about the other week. And one of my craft friends said she has never felt so ill and so weak after 2 weeks she's still got a cough .

Well all have the best Christmas you can and it's only one day and the chocolate box Christmas is a myth. Hopefully 2023 will be a better year for us all. Take care my friends 🌲🥂.

This is the first year that my son won't be with me and his wider family for Christmas. I kept hoping that he would get in touch but that hope has vanished. I'll think of all who are estranged from family. May we all find peace.

Morning everyone. Feeling a little better this morning having slept quite a lot during the day and through the night. Not well enough for Midnight Mass which is a huge disappointment, as well as being unable to go out for our traditional Christmas Eve meal, but there's always next year.

I think it's lovely that you are playing music again DSL. There were a few songs and one artist in particular that I couldn't listen too for a few years after we were estranged.

When I started listing to them again, I would cry but now can play them and enjoy the music with hardly ever shedding a tear. Like you, I saw this as a sign that I was healing.

Allsorts the past few days have been weepy for me too. This time of the year and feeling so rotten have made me more emotional than I've been for a while.

We still have some work to do dear friend, as we all do. This is something I think you never get over, you just learn to live with it, and make the most of what you do have.

I hope you manage to get in the food you need today. I was glad to get ours yesterday and close the door on the rest of the world so there's just the two of us, and our lovely pooches for group hugs and that wonderful feeling of being loved and safe.

Whiff we give so much of ourselves when helping and supporting others, especially when it's a tragedy that we have personal experience of.

We do it here too, thread after thread of kindness, compassion and understanding. Reliving our own estrangements as we care for and support one another.

Your friend is blessed to have you by her side.

I don't know if I could every forgive our ES Yogin, for the pain he's caused especially to Mr. S. There could never be any trust there, any at all and any relationship would be pale imitation of what we once had.

10 years, 10 years today at 6.30 pm to be precise when our first Christmas present to our GC was forced through our letter box with that note that was a knife to the heart; "you are no longer a part of mine and ..... life and are to stay away".

Have a wonderful Christmas with your son Pixie. I hope you can forget about the admin for the next few days hugs and enjoy your first Christmas in your new home.

We never sent gifts Spring just cards for Birthdays and Christmas to our GC and stopped doing that a couple of years ago. It was something I needed to do, and when I didn't feel that need any longer felt it was another step forward on the road to recovery.

Grandmabatty I was a member of a closed online site for EP's and there as a lady there who used to refer to the 'hope devil'. It breaks your heart when to realise that there's no point in hoping but that does enable and encourage us to accept things the way they are, and allows the healing to begin.

Refusing to take the emotional abuse that's doled out takes courage and determination Lilly. The finality of our relationship that springs to mind is frightening but for me, having read some of the awful behaviour that P's and GP's tolerate for fear of being estranged, I'm glad we're out it, I really am.

All that remains is to wish you all a happy and peaceful Christmas. I'm taking myself off for a long shower now and for what I know is going to be a damn good cry. I can feel it building up inside me, and am determined that this one will be the last this Christmas.

Love and hugs to you all xx

Have the best time that you all can during this festive period. Catch up with you all in the new year.

Xx

I’m just off to bed hoping I might sleep and be well enough to see family tomorrow, but if I can’t I will manage. Hope you all find the joy in Christmas, it’s easy to let one person ruin things. Not being well and all the emotions Christmas stir up has upset me too Smileless. I do know there’s other people, genuine who are there for me, as you all are, that’s what matters. Just watched a new version of the Nutcraker it was a delight.

So sorry it's been ten years Smileless. That's so heartbreaking to have your gift returned. I remember you saying this on a previous thread and the fact that it's a ten year anniversary has got to be hard.

The hope devil has been tormenting me the last few days. My son told his brother a few months ago that he wouldn't be in the UK for Christmas. Well, we drove round there and they are definitely at home. Part of me thinks he may turn up on Christmas day just to spite us and make us look bad, thinking we wouldn't have got GC any gifts, so I have got some small gifts in gift bags just in case. He won't win that way.

I don't think he will show his face though. He has said some truly dreadful things this year, to which I had no answer and I don't know how we can come back from it. He wants to control the things I think and do and I won't be controlled. The way I look at it is: I have lost them and that's sad, but I haven't lost myself. I have not allowed his bullying and coercion to change who I am. He has been cruel and he knows it. I cannot ever chase him again or it will give him carte blanche to be abusive again and I'm not going to deal with that as I get older.

I remember this time last year feeling like we should be "the adults" and take a gift for the GC. It did open up a dialogue, but then during 2022 they disrespected us worse than ever and treated us appallingly, so was it even worth it? At least I tried. At least we know we did our best.

We are ill with a flu like illness anyway, so even though we will be sad not to see them, we will at the same time be glad of a quiet day as we recuperate from "the lurgy".

Wishing you Smileless and everyone reading this the best possible Christmas day Hoping you are able to enjoy the day and all the other good things in life. xx

I will address all of your posts after Christmas.

Just get through today the best way you can . And remember family is special all year round just not Christmas day. So those of our families who have turned their backs on us and been so cruel and cowardly in their treatment of us one day they will reap what they sow as they think they are prefect parents as our grandchildren grow and meet partners of their own they will find out what it's like to be treated like crap. And if they are lucky enough to become grandparents they will feel as we do when they are ripped away from us or we are never given the chance to be grandparents. But for however out children treat us what will forever stick in their claw is that we are their parents and their children's grandparents and there's not a dam thing they can do about it. And that my friends is what they hate the most.

For those who are lucky enough to have children and grandchildren who care and love us proves that we are good parents and grandparents. And that we are not in anyway to blame for how our estranged children treat us the fault is with them and then alone. And they know it but won't admit they are to blame.

So everyone you are good parents and grandparents have the best Christmas day you can it's only one day . Hopefully those of you who are feeling poorly feel a bit better today.

My friend who I have been helping is going to the gym this morning with a friend. Who knew gyms opened Christmas morning. It's part of her way of coping with her first Christmas on her own.

So my Warrior Queen's Merry Christmas to each and everyone of you and thank you all for getting to yet another Christmas. 🎅🌲🥂🍾❤️

https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202212/medium-509445-dscf4957-small2.jpg https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202212/medium-506720-untitled.jpg

I love personal CDs DSL. Mr Hugs made me one for our 25th wedding anniversary - songs chosen to tell the story of our life since we met. It still makes me go all gooey.

I'm glad you've got good things to fill your life spring20. Just the 2 of us today, too, and we're enjoying the relaxed calm and peace.

Sorry you'll be missing your son grandmbatty. Sending you Chirstmas love.

Glad you're feeling a bit better smiles.. I'm sorry you have that terribly painful Christmas memory from 10 years ago, but I'm so glad you've found a way to heal.

Hope you're feeling better allosrts

I hope you feel better too onwards and upwards and the day brings you some joy.

A merry Christmas to you too Warrior Queen Whiff - that has a ring to it!

Mr Hugs and I are going on our Christmas stroll now - the sun is out - and we have a lovely lunch to look forward to.

We have on our jumpers, knitted my me.

Thanks so much Whiff and Hugshelp I hope your day has been the best day possible, along with everyone on this forum

We had just four of us here today. Delicious food and very civilised. My youngest has been a delight.

Admittedly, I did peek at my ES's social media and he had been on a gambling site on Christmas morning, was boasting about his winnings. I feel he may not still be with DiL or have GC living with him- or perhaps he is the selfishest and meanest father ever, as well as an abusive son. In which case, my DiL and GC will be better off without him. The truth is, he will either have held them hostage to his demands (isolating them from Everyone) or they are no longer with him. Only time will reveal which.

My Mother decided to ignore my existence by not replying to communications or gifts. I'm not sad for myself because I know I have been a great daughter and that she is a very ill woman. She wrecked my sibling's Christmas day. Thankfully she lives too far to effect that on me. Her choice.

Over and above it was a peaceful and relaxing day with zero drama, and for that I'm thankful.I did slightly expect my Mother to reply or react to her gifts, cards and messages, but I am also not that surprised. It was her who decided to move several hundred miles away and treat me like something on the bottom of her shoe just because she thought she could do better with my siblings. But my siblings are getting stronger and not taking her abuse anymore. One of them even left the country for the foreseeable future just to avoid Christmas. The other one tried to make plans with her and she ruined all of the plans.

I missed my GC, but I don't miss any abusive people.

Two & half years ago I’d put a post on here asking for opinions if should send my eD a birthday card …well I did , and since then Ive sent her birthday & Christmas cards , along with heartfelt letters saying how much I love& miss her , asking please can we talk thing through , but I heard nothing , she has not even given me the light of day . I have been so very hurt as we all know how that feels . But , what I’d like to say is, that , couple months ago I ended up in hospital and were very poorly . My eD knew I were in hospital as her brother told her how ill I was , but she didn’t want to know . That were the wake up call I needed , as , I decided since that I’d had enough of the awful pain of hurting , so, with a heavy heart , I decided not to send her a Christmas card this year , as I need to try my best to accept that she doesn’t want me in her life , I need some sort of closure to help me cope . I hope you will all understand.
Now that I’m posting back here in this group I would love to be part of it as I can see that everyone is so understanding of each other’s situations, I find that this is not an easy subject to talk to with friends as I feel I can be judged and that’s the last thing I’d want as it’s enough to live a life without having the love of of a child which I gave birth to .

Dibbydod

Two & half years ago I’d put a post on here asking for opinions if should send my eD a birthday card …well I did , and since then Ive sent her birthday & Christmas cards , along with heartfelt letters saying how much I love& miss her , asking please can we talk thing through , but I heard nothing , she has not even given me the light of day . I have been so very hurt as we all know how that feels . But , what I’d like to say is, that , couple months ago I ended up in hospital and were very poorly . My eD knew I were in hospital as her brother told her how ill I was , but she didn’t want to know . That were the wake up call I needed , as , I decided since that I’d had enough of the awful pain of hurting , so, with a heavy heart , I decided not to send her a Christmas card this year , as I need to try my best to accept that she doesn’t want me in her life , I need some sort of closure to help me cope . I hope you will all understand.
Now that I’m posting back here in this group I would love to be part of it as I can see that everyone is so understanding of each other’s situations, I find that this is not an easy subject to talk to with friends as I feel I can be judged and that’s the last thing I’d want as it’s enough to live a life without having the love of of a child which I gave birth to .

Hi Dibbydod, that's lovely you made that gesture. It's sad that she didnt return the gesture. Do you definitely know without a shadow of a doubt that she definitely still lives at the same address? If not, she may not have recieved them at all.

I can't guess why your eD did not want to know when you were in hospital? It might be that she does not forgive you for something? In which case, you cannot really do anything unless you know what it is, and even then who can change the past?

The best relationships are reciprocal. Anything else isn't really worth bothering with. Nobody needs the pain of unrequited love- but always make sure it definitely IS unrequited and not a misunderstanding.

OnwardandUpward

Dibbydod

Two & half years ago I’d put a post on here asking for opinions if should send my eD a birthday card …well I did , and since then Ive sent her birthday & Christmas cards , along with heartfelt letters saying how much I love& miss her , asking please can we talk thing through , but I heard nothing , she has not even given me the light of day . I have been so very hurt as we all know how that feels . But , what I’d like to say is, that , couple months ago I ended up in hospital and were very poorly . My eD knew I were in hospital as her brother told her how ill I was , but she didn’t want to know . That were the wake up call I needed , as , I decided since that I’d had enough of the awful pain of hurting , so, with a heavy heart , I decided not to send her a Christmas card this year , as I need to try my best to accept that she doesn’t want me in her life , I need some sort of closure to help me cope . I hope you will all understand.
Now that I’m posting back here in this group I would love to be part of it as I can see that everyone is so understanding of each other’s situations, I find that this is not an easy subject to talk to with friends as I feel I can be judged and that’s the last thing I’d want as it’s enough to live a life without having the love of of a child which I gave birth to .

Hi Dibbydod, that's lovely you made that gesture. It's sad that she didnt return the gesture. Do you definitely know without a shadow of a doubt that she definitely still lives at the same address? If not, she may not have recieved them at all.

I can't guess why your eD did not want to know when you were in hospital? It might be that she does not forgive you for something? In which case, you cannot really do anything unless you know what it is, and even then who can change the past?

The best relationships are reciprocal. Anything else isn't really worth bothering with. Nobody needs the pain of unrequited love- but always make sure it definitely IS unrequited and not a misunderstanding.

Thank you for your kind thoughts .
Yes I know exactly where she lives as she lives just couple streets away from myself and I’d popped them through her letterbox.
My eD has not spoken to me in nearly 3 years , I’m at a loss as to know exactly why . all I know I were in a bad place at the time as my long term partner had not long passed away , so , it were doubly cruel .

I have since tried my best to sort things out with her , but she has remained silent .

MERRY CHRISTMAS where's our Xmas smileys?
to all on here, hope you all had a lovely day.

So many post to read, I'll make a coffee and come back to read all. Lots of clearing up to do this morning as I cooked the Xmas dinner and then too tired to do anything more than load the dishwasher, probably need it on another 2 times this morning, but we had a good Xmas day. My little GD had fun whilst I was in the kitchen, opening all the plasters & sticking them to the carpet! [older GD had a tiny scrap on her ankle that really needed a plaster from nannie]
They are still there this morning, with all the surrounding peel off paper, hope the hoover picks it all up!

Hope you enjoyed your long hot shower Smiles Awful day to have your estrangement ann. on; Xmas eve. I'm the same with some songs. I have a beautiful CD where a mother is singing about her unconditional love for her baby, like a love song to her baby, it's not in English but in Sanskrit, some of the tunes sound like Xmas tunes, so I played it this Xmas in my classes. Before years I just couldn't listen to it as I feared I would start crying, this year I was OK.