Friendship, advice and support if estrangement has affected your life.

Smileless I'm sorry to hear that you are feeling unwell. I have covid and it's been horrible. Honey and lemon in hot water has helped me put up with it.

Sorry to hear that you have covid Grandmabatty, mine isn't thank goodness. You're right about drinking honey and lemon, I'm sure it helped give me a good night's sleep.

Hope you feel better soon.

I’m sorry to hear of you being unwell and send love and hugs.

Just cannot sleep tonight and if I lived alone then I think I might run about the house with the hoover and do some cleaning! I feel so down in the dumps and yet my youngest son is coming home some time this week. I should be singing from the rafters but I just cannot sleep. So many things I want to get done. My husband wouldn’t notice if the dirt in the house sprung tentacles and strangled him! I feel exhausted with this whole estrangement thing and just cannot put it to the back of my head. This time of year is hard for us all. Must get back to bed and try and sleep. Night night and thank you for reading. I think I am going bonkers.

Thank you Smileless. Today is the first day where I don't feel grim. I went to have a shower and - the blooming thing isn't working! So a bathroom sink wash it was. I've put clothes on for the first time in a week and washed my hair - jug over the bath- so I feel better already. I've also tested negative so the plan is to have a quiet day today and then finish shopping tomorrow. I don't have a lot to get. I'm going to dd's house for Christmas Day so I don't need to think about Christmas food.

I hope you get a better night's sleep tonight Pixie. It's very frustrating when thoughts keep you awake. You're not going bonkers but I know it can feel like that sometimes.

When I try to put our situation to the back of my mind, I find it makes me think of it even more, so I don't fight it, I let the thoughts come, knowing that they'll recede again, until the next time.

I had a bad night too just like you, unable to switch my brain off so when I did manage to sleep, resulted in some rather weird dreams.

I'm glad you're feeling a little better Grandmabatty. What a pain that your shower didn't work but it's good you managed to freshen up and wash your hair without it.

A little TLC goes a long way to making us feel more able to face the world doesn't it.

Good you've tested negative, especially as you're going to your DD's for Christmas day. Something lovely to look forward too.

Welcome Grandmabatty & Beachgranny67 Hope you're soon fighting fit Grandmabatty

Sending you hugs Pixie and Normandygirl

Good to see you again Toetoe - sorry things aren't better.

Hope you're better soon smiles.

Been busy running errands today so just a quick hello. Take care all. x

Hope you sleep well tonight Pixie….some good advice given by Smileless. Lots of Covid round here too, and already some disrupted Christmases, so hope all of you who are unwell soon begin to feel better again. Had a pottering day….went to get last bit of shopping and got caught in an hour long traffic jam! Felt sorry for those in cars with small children. Looking forward to starting a good book in next couple of days, which will keep me focused and away from the tv ads of perfect family Christmases which we know don’t exist in reality. Wishing you all much peace over the next few days and hope you can find things to enjoy.

Pixie this estrangement does send you bonkers, it did me for a whole 6.5yrs at which time I decided enough is enough. I actually came off GN, stopped with writing cards, lighting candles, putting money in estGC bank acc I'd opened for them, stopped praying on my knees every day, just went 'cold turkey' on it all and just Stopped Felt tons better for it, got my brain back, I had finally accepted and moved on.

Wish you better Smiles for your concert xx

Thanks hugs and Yogin but I feel worse today so wont be able to do the concert this evening.

I need to walk into town for a few bits and pieces and hopefully will feel up to it tomorrow. Just the two of us over Christmas and all organised, so another day or two of not feeling up to doing anything wont make any difference.

Sending (((hugs))) to you all xx.

OH dear, hope it passes soon smiles. Sending hugs right back.

Get well soon smileless 🧑‍🎄

Get better soon Smileless. Thank you all for your good wishes. I'm feeling a lot better but sil has covid now and probably picked it up from me. He'll never let me forget it! Shopping achieved this morning and I'm waiting for my plumber to call. Fingers crossed I don't need a new shower.

I hope you are all managing this week. Surprise of the day was a card from my eldest son (it was a year today since that horrible phone call with him) via MoonPig. It is covered with photos of him, his wife and my two lovely grand children. Hubby asked if it was a way of trying to get back with me. It felt like the opposite and the card shouted “this is what you are missing”. Sorry to sound so negative but it was bitter/sweet when I opened it. I sent his kids (my grand kids) money and sweets plus cards via DPD and him and DIL just a card. No cash for the adults this time. I will thank him for the lovely card via text message but not yet.

My youngest son will be here on thursday night and he is going to make some cakes (not sure what) on friday afternoon. Soooo looking forward to seeing him. He is going back on 28th as he is meeting up with his partner then.

I feel a bit better in myself today but still have a lump in my throat like I want to have a good cry. Life!

Purplepixie that's hard.

OH goodnes Pixie - I do hope that wasn't the intent. I hope it was meant as an olive branch, however clumsy. x

Thanks everyone for your good wishes. Feeling better today, not 100% but well enough to walk into town later.

Like hugs I hope that wasn't the intent Pixie but that would have been my reaction too. Sending a card with pics of him and his family was at the very least insensitive x.

Hello everyone.......

Finally I have my internet up and running.

Settling in nicely and loving my new home. I am going to be very happy here. It's just a few streets away from our old family home so I really do feel that I have come home again.

Unfortunately I have now developed a "lurgy". Feeling quite grim, just hope I can shake it off by Christmas. Hey ho, this too will pass and if I do have to spend Christmas alone in splendid isolation - well it's not the end of the world. I can always reschedule "Christmas". The way the world is right now I consider myself a very fortunate person. There are so many struggling ........

As I reflect on all I have achieved in 2022 I am in a much better place than I was this time last year. 2021 was dreadful and last Christmas finished me off. I did see my eldest son and his family but it was not a happy experience. I was treated shamefully by my son and DIL and I vowed "never again". I immediately adopted my red rope policy, maintaining a polite but cool approach in my dealings with them, and stepping right back, never initiating contact and being less available.

Each year I set myself a mantra. This time last year I was in a pit of despair, heartbroken, emotionally bruised and battered, at the lowest ebb I had ever been. I decided enough was enough and chose the phrase "radical transformation" to be my guide for 2022.

It's been a long hard slog but I achieved it. I have moved house, lost some weight and miraculously have somehow managed to salvage and repair my relationship with my son.

My red rope policy worked. It was a gamble but tbh I felt that I had nothing to lose. The threat of estrangement was all too real but I had decided that I would rather be estranged than continue being abused and ill treated.

Anyway my gamble paid off. My son and I are reconciled and so far DIL is being civil. She still treats my son like a slave and but I can't interfere. He needs to sort things out. At least he knows he still has me. Unfortunately the two brothers still haven't seen each other and that does make my life more difficult but again I'm not going to interfere. Hopefully they will work something out soon. The stumbling block is not the boys but their partners. DIL 1 is very jealous of DIL 2 and DIL 2 cannot forgive DIL 1 for the way I was treated.

The scenario is very reminiscent of William, Kate, Meghan and Harry. My DIL 1 is very much cut from the same cloth as Meghan . A complete narcissist. So many similarities. Hey Ho. I learned a lot from watching how our dear late Queen handled Meghan. . If she felt anything like I did she must have felt so hurt and betrayed but she remained calm, winning all our hearts with her quiet stoicism and dignity.

As we all know it breaks our hearts when our ACs throw all our love back in our faces, In my sons case it wasn't intentional, he was so wrapped up in his own misery he didn't even realise how much he was hurting me and the rest of the family.

When I had "the conversation" I could see he was genuinely astonished and appalled at what he'd done. As I said I am one of the lucky ones. My son woke up from his stupor and has worked hard to make amends. Harry is still sleepwalking.......

Pixie.......only time will tell whether your son is offering an olive branch or not. I hope he is and I hope you can accept it.

"Forgiveness" is very difficult.

I have done my best to forgive but I will never forget. I have laid the emotional burden down for my sake, it was compounding my grief and making me ill so I had to let it all go. I wanted to set myself free from all the grief, pain and sorrow of losing my husband and start a new life. Holding onto the hurt from a threatened estrangement was making matters worse. I felt I had to be prepared to walk away. Once I reached that stage I was able to tackle my son and have that difficult conversation. That conversation was a huge risk but I was prepared to roll the dice and live with the consequences. If it meant total estrangement then so be it but I couldn't live in no man's land any longer. The stress was too much.

I will be honest and say I am still not entirely confident and relaxed, I simply don't trust DIL, never will. I see my son and DIL regularly and I can't see that theirs is not a healthy relationship. I can see my son is not happy, he is much changed, a shadow of his former self. I say nothing.

But my silence doesn't mean she has broken me. I'm not scared of her, she can bully my son but not me. If she ever starts on me again I WILL walk. No more eggshells for me......my son realises that I've moved the goalposts, not sure whether DIL has grasped that I've changed. But, if she starts her nonsense, she will find out.

Anyway I am in a much stronger position than I was this time last year. Just hope it continues. I have chosen my new mantra for next year and it is "blossom". I intend to blossom and grow. I shall bloom where I'm planted.

Glad to hear you are feeling better Smiles. Such a shame you missed your concert, these winter bugs are such a nuisance, I think all that isolating for Covid has weakened our immune systems.

Anyway I wish you all a Very Merry Christmas, that you all find a measure of peace and that your broken hearts can start to mend.

Love to all. ❤️🎄. May 2023 be better for us all.

If my son has offered an olive branch then I will accept it but I cannot go back to the disrespectful way he used to be with me. I wish that phone call had never happened but it did let me know just what was going through his head. Who knows what he thinks now.

Love and hugs to you all. I am off to do a bit of knitting and try and unwind. 🤗 ❤️

Lovely to hear you're enjoying your new home DSL. Hope the lurgy passes soon. So good to see you reflect on the progress you have made this year.

Totally get where you're coming from Pixie. Enjoy the knitting.

Knitting is so relaxing isn't it, unfortunately its not something I'm very good at. When my husband was sick and I was so stressed I used to do a lot of embroidery. It helped me switch off.

Pixie I am glad you have decided to accept the olive branch if it is indeed being proffered. I hope that you and you and your son can be reconciled. As I have said before I think it can be hard to trust again once our trust has been broken, the sense of betrayal runs deep and is extremely painful. But I guess we have to try.

I wasn't able to give absolution but I have been able to give my son (and DIL) a second chance to redeem themselves. But.......if they ever treat me badly again, that will be it, they won't get a third chance. I may have dodged a bullet but then so have they. I hope they realise this.

I do believe that, up to a point, I was culpable in what happened. I allowed them to get away with murder, I made a rod for my own back. By trying to maintain the peace I allowed them to treat me like a doormat and walk all over me. And then I woke up.

That's why, after last Christmas which turned out to be the straw that broke the camels back, I did a complete about turn. I set up my red velvet rope and it has remained in place ever since. I will never let my guard down again.

Alas, some people, even much loved family members, will abuse our good natures if we let them. With my son it was unintentional, careless rather than premeditated, taking me for granted but with my DIL it was deliberate and calculated cruelty. I should have stood up to her much earlier but I didn't so I must take some responsibility.

It's a sad fact but there are some people in this world who will interpret gentleness and kindness as weakness and who will then seek to use our gentleness and good hearts and weaponise them against us. My DIL is such a person and she tried to poison my son against his family, isolating him so she could have complete control. Just like Meghan has done with Harry.

It's hard to conceive there is such wickedness in the world but sadly there is, I didn't want to see it but in the end I couldn't avoid facing the truth. My youngest son sussed my DIL out immediately, that is why she took so violently against him. She couldn't pull the wool over his eyes the way she did mine.

Looking back there were so many red flags but I just didn't want to see them. We had just lost my husband and I wanted my son to be happy. I was pleased he had met "his person" and we all welcomed her into our family, little realising we were welcoming a viper into the nest. If my husband had been alive my son would never have succumbed but she pounced when he was vulnerable. Trauma bonding......just like Meghan did with Harry by using his grief over Diana's death to trap him, DIL did exactly the same with my son using his grief and vulnerability. But that's narcissism for you.

I'm lucky I can walk away any time, but for my son it is not quite that simple. She will fight dirty and use the children as pawns. He's trapped.

Anyway Pixie. I wish you all the luck in the world.......just take it slowly, set some boundaries and protect your heart.

Hugs.....thanks. I feel pretty wretched, so just having a sofa day. I have got an easy ready meal for dinner. Hopefully it will soon pass.

Hello to everyone...I am new here and so very appreciative to have found this forum.

I''m Lilly4 and I have 2 e'd adult children who act somewhat like their narcissistic dad. I dropped the rope 2 years ago (stopped allowing them to hurt me when I'd go visit or call or send them money and gifts).

I grieved pretty hard for many years. I just still cannot understand why they wont just sit down and talk things out with me. I was not abusive or a yeller. I have invited them to talk, and I apologized for everything I could think of that I did that caused them pain...but I can only guess as they do not care enough about a relationship with me to tell me what horrendous thing I did to make them completely reject me....so I can attempt to make it right.

So I stopped trying...sending gifts, etc 2 years ago. I have peace being away from the efforts that meet with rejection...but I still feel sad...like right now for the holidays...because this is not what I had wanted to experience...the loss of the dream of what family was 'supposed to be'...

perhaps all this happened because I was too naive and did not know that a minister could be a narcissist...or how destructive these people can be...and that marrying him would cost me any children I might have (plus a lot of flying monkey friends and family, sadly)

God has given me some wonderful friends and my faith helps me. My career is working with children, and I consider my charges as my "adopted" grands. So sweet!!

I look forward to learning from/with all of you. Thank you for being here and sharing...it is a beautiful thing to assist each other with healing!

So much to catch up with. Have been helping my best friend cope with her grief but had knock on effect of sending me back to when my husband died . It's took me nearly 19 years to realise I thought I had grieved properly for him at the time but looking back realise because of the demands of others took me years until the children left home to do it. Then not really fully as parents and mother in law dependant on me . It's no wonder I never had a good night's sleep since the children where born. Even after both parents and mother in law died still didn't get a good night's sleep combination of jaundice then buying and selling my house. Funny how my first night in my bungalow fell asleep within minutes of my head hitting the pillow and had no trouble sleeping since.

Think it's a combination of finally living closer to the children, living in my bungalow has made my life easier,better health which means I now know I was born with a hole in my heart and was born with HPX, made lots of new friends , lovely neighbours who actually care and check up on me if they haven't seen me out and about. Finally having a place that is mine . I chose it and decided what has been done in it never had that before. I know that sounds selfish but I don't feel that way. Since meeting my husband at 16 became us . And I wish will all my heart I was still us but can't be. So had to make a new present and future on my own and it's been and still is hard. But had to do it. I promised my husband I would live the best life I can and do.

I have always been a planner good job to as I know realise things that my body has done isn't weird but was and is because of the HPX. Without planning my life would have been more difficult.

The estrangement with my son came out of the blue never saw it coming. But looking back because of helping my friend all the signs where there but as I lived so far away put up with things. My son and daughter had wanted me to live closer to them for years but couldn't until my mom died. They understood as I was needed .

Wasn't until I got jaundice and was seriously ill that I realised I had lost me . We become so wrapped up in our labels they take over. Don't get me wrong I don't regret my decisions but didn't realise how much it cost me in terms of my health.

Funny how happy both my children and their spouses where when I moved here. For 7 months my son and his 2 eldest visited every week but only saw my daughter in law 3 times and was never invited to their home ever again. And yet had spent lot of time there pre my move.

My son's email dumping me as his mom but saying give him some months he loved me but didn't like me. Then when I got in touch 3 months later for their birthday and birth presents etc for my new grandson . Then that letter that finished my role in his and my grandson's life.

Estrangement is a living grief. My son and family are there but he has decided I don't exist my 2 older grandson's will have forgotten me by now and the youngest never had that chance and not knowing his name is cruel so I have given him one. As I can't bear thinking of a grandson of mine without a name .

Had an overwhelming need to see my son but wise words from friends here made me realise I can't allow him to hurt me more than he already has.

Like I said helping my friend has brought things back that I had thought I had dealt with long ago.

Unlike some here I can never forgive my son and daughter in law for what they have done and said. And if my son did get in touch and want a relationship again then we could have it but he has some explaining to do and I would never trust him again he destroyed that. Would anyone trust a cheating husband I wouldn't have so there is no way I could trust or forgive my son not to do this all over again.

Like I said helping my friend has brought everything back . But I am very lucky still have my daughter and family. Who I see weekly.

So hence my absence from here .

Seems strange to saw glad to see toetoe ,spring and Lilly here but we all need somewhere to go where you can find help,advice, friendship and understanding from a group of people who know what you are going through. All the new posters shows how vital this support thread is. Estrangement has far to long been a taboo subject. Some narrow minded people think we as parents must have done something to make our children turn against us. When the fact is it's our children who decided we are surplus to requirements. As parents we give our children unconditional love and attention. But has shown time and time again once our children become adults that not good enough. I could blame my daughter in law as she liked the idea of me living closer but not the reality. But it was my son who wrote the email and sent back all the cards and new baby gifts and wrote the letter. They are both to blame for what they said and did.

Smiles hope you are feeling better. Will.end now but pop on later and talk about others not myself. Found this hard to write especially as thanks to another thread found out there is now treatment for the cancer my husband died from ,its no longer an instead death sentence as it was for him..

Be back later.

A very warm welcome Lilly. We are always pleased when someone new finds this support thread, but so sorry that it's needed.

Just a quickie from me this morning. Feeling really awful, this cold gets worse so I've had to cancel my hair appointment this afternoon and our Christmas Eve meal out.

Mr. S. has it now too so we're both feeling pretty miserable and I'm very weepy. As if this time of the year isn't difficult enough.

Got to go out for a few bits this morning. Engineer was supposed to come to repair our fridge freezer yesterday but it was cancelled and re arranged for January 4th!!!

My head's pounding but I'll read everyone's posts later.

Take care dear friends x