Harry: "I want my Father back. I want my brother back"

No ones perfect I guess

That's true really as the media seems to dredge up all sorts and we don't know for sure.... However, it seems wise not to write a book about anyone we want a relationship with- if they had not agreed to facts being shared or if we revealed things about them without their agreement we would understand that it could end a relationship, or put it in danger.

It is so sad I agree.

Thanks to all who have commented on this post. Hoping the RF find a way through estrangement, as we all want to.

It really is probably best not to get in any way invested in the whole royal debacle

None of us will ever know what the truth is... usually somewhere in the middle of all the hurt feelings when families cannot communicate well

Thanks Smileless It didn't beat me, but I came really close.

I would never want to be anything but kind because I have been on the end of much unkindness and never want to be "that person".
I'm not estranged from my Mother, but only because I make the effort to keep low contact.

Glad it has been helpful, but sorry for admittedly being a bit triggering. I never thought I'd lose a child. I always thought that being kind and accepting would be "enough", but I know that on so many levels I am not "enough" for everyone. Relationships take two and I have been guilty of being an overgiver, due to being the parent my whole life.

Going forwards, just going to make the most of those who choose to be in my life and make the most of the good things. It was really hard to let go. (I wonder if it is an age thing?!)

At the end of this thread, I don't know what to say about H. I have experienced enough trauma myself to know that even the best intentioned parent can experience estrangement from their kid. I know it's nobody's choice. I know it can also be the best thing. It's not nice, but it's better than abuse and it's better than feeling suicidal.

Oh Onward I'm so sorry that you reached that point of desperation. Sometimes estrangement is the only thing that makes sense and that can be the case whether you're the one whose estranged or the one whose been estranged.

Estrangement isn't the end, although there are times when it can feel like it. It's a new beginning, another new chapter in our lives even when it's not what we'd have chosen for ourselves if there'd been a better way

Estrangement is always painful, no matter if we are the child or the parent. I agree it is never ideal, but it may be necessary to cope.

Ten years ago I lined up the pills to end my life as a result of my Mothers terrible bullying and recruiting other people to bully me at a time when I needed support more than any other time. She knew this- and yet she brought people to bully who believed her. I did not have the strength to defend myself. I prepared to die.

In the end, the only thing that held me here was my kids in the other room. The realisation dawned that they would find my dead body, how could I do that to them? I had to fight. I got a therapist and started working on survival. She warned me that my family would change if I changed. I needed to change to survive, so I carried on. My Mother did her best to prevent me continuing with the therapy. When this did not work and when I started to get stronger, she left the area without a forwarding address. I was devastated.

Many years later, I have accepted I will never have that love. She told everyone I will die young. I think a part of her goaded me almost to suicide, hoping that I would indeed die young. I will always love her, but she will never love me how I needed to be loved as a baby. Indeed she was sectioned for harming me as a baby and I will always be that bad baby who she blames and scapegoats for causing her (the perfect one in her eyes) to fall from grace and be sectioned.

This is how it is and I accept it. I will never receive anything I need from her. I am at peace with the situation, but it has taken me a long time. I have cared for her in ways she has never cared for me. I was the parent all along.

I'm sorry VS that estrangement was necessary, but glad you're not suicidal , depressed or hating yourself anymore because this was never about you- it's about Mother's like ours who cannot love. Mine is at a huge geographical distance (not my choice, but hers) so I have not had to make any decision. I have learned to be the bigger person. It's hard but I will always be the bigger person and she will always be the baby who didn't grow up and is stuck in childhood, especially now that she is elderly and needing care. There is no way back from here, for me and her.

I have never tried to change her, but I admit I spent a lot of time wishing she was the kind of Mother who would have a coffee or go to the shops with me, the kind of mother who could encourage and be kind, who wanted the best for me. But, I accept it. I can be my own best friend and work on myself.

I hope in time things will be different with you VS, but I accept they never will be for me due to my Mother's age, geographical distance and general decline.

I always tried to be the best Mother I could, to be the opposite- to never say unkind things and to listen, validate etc etc- yet somehow I've lost.

It has been a good thread Onward and produced some thoughtful and insightful posts.

Being judged is something that many of us who are estranged feel from time to time Onward which is why being able to talk about it anonymously can be helpful, especially with others who are living with it too.

Acceptance leads to letting go which enables you to move on and rebuild your life. This is what Harry needs to do if he's going to be able to be at peace with himself whether or not he's able to reconcile with his family.

My GN experience of getting on for 10 years posting about estrangement has in the main been as you've described M0nica supportive and kind.

OnwardandUpward

They do

This thread will be over soon as we're getting close to 991 posts, unbelievably. I won't make another one as I know it's been an upsetting subject. Personally feel it has been triggering and also beneficial.

It's a good timely topic, well done you.

Some GN posters are authority to all topics. Oh well.

Onward

Yes the reason I'm on estrangement is because I'm not happy about being estranged or the price I paid to an abusive parent.

When I first joined, I was looking for a more balanced view. There are lots of groups out there for estranged parents and estranged children and few where there are both. I didn't want to exist in an echo chamber.

I've made friends here, estranged children and estranged parents and we have been able to support each other effectively

And there are times when others are projecting their pain onto the other side... and I see it and don't want that to be myself doing that.

Emotions can be high, words can be misunderstood, tone can be misread and when giving advice that its too late for another to follow or that they wouldn't follow it can be shouted down.

But I'm not interested in sides, I'm interested in preventing estrangement and helping reconciliation (where possible or wanted).

I've actually done a lot of healing here though

Those doubting comments and voices have made me examine myself and ask myself if I did the right thing and helped me really know I have through self reflection

The unfortunate thing is that I also know those dissenting voices don't have my healing or happiness at heart.

But no I will never be happy to be estranged, to not have a loving mother, to not have that bond and everything that goes with it

But I'm happy in my life, my children, my relationships and my work and I didn't honestly have that before estrangement. I was depressed, on tablets, suicidal and hated myself

So on balance, estrangement was the answer for me, just as it is for anyone estranged from an abusive other

Why do we ever need sides anyway or animosity or grudges

Surely happiness is the goal for everyone and that's not achieved through arguing or point scoring or unkindness in any form

They do

This thread will be over soon as we're getting close to 991 posts, unbelievably. I won't make another one as I know it's been an upsetting subject. Personally feel it has been triggering and also beneficial.

VioletSky

Can't even tell who is who apart anymore

Whoops

Violtsky
Usernames give a clue to who’s who.

work because we are all so different.

M0nica

I do not understand you pursuing a course that clearly makes you unhappy.

I also said that when I looked at estrangment threads, I did not see the plethora of judging and blaming posts you refer to. The vast majority seemed to me to be supportive and kind.

Your answer does seem unkind M0nica. Perhaps it's not making VS unhappy - maybe she just already is.

I hope we have been supportive and kind. Speaking for myself , I aim to be supportive and kind, but I am aware that sometimes words can be misconstrued. Generally I try to treat others as I'd want to be treated, though it doesn't always

VioletSky

Can't even tell who is who apart anymore

Whoops

I know what you mean VS. Your responses match so well with people whose names I can’t always recollect.
Can’t tell who is who apart anymore.

VioletSky

I'd love for it to be that easy Onward

I loved my mother and wanted to fix her, fix me, fix our relationship

It took years after estrangement for the hope to die

I had to know I did everything I could to be in the place if acceptance I am now

People are different I guess and I don't expect anyone to handle things my way, least of all Harry who to me is just.. Well he is just a public figure

I believe you VS. I did feel that way too and it has taken me a long time to let go and accept that she will always be who she is. I am now "over the hill", so it may be easier now.

No one has any right to judge you for estrangement, VS. Yet, I know what you mean and feel people might also judge me, in real life (if they were to know). I have decided that I am more comfortable not talking about it with anyone except my husband and online anonymously because it helps me cope.

I also understand how you feel about people seeing it as a Mother's POV. I think we can all identify with someone who we percieve to be similar to ourselves in some way and often mistakenly attribute characteristics. There are most of us who feel our kids have been unfair , some of us who feel it's our parent and a few of us who are like the filling in a toxic sandwich.

Sadly none of us can change anyone except ourselves and how we deal with our situations. H can't either. All the books in the world will not change the basic problem.

I hope we will always be kind and supportive, as we are all experiencing different types of estrangement. It doesn't help us to turn on each other because we are not each other's mother or child, but strangers with a common pain.

Can't even tell who is who apart anymore

Whoops

Same names every time lol

I think my reply to you on the other thread you tried to continue on speaks for both

I'm not interested in this tbh

So I'm going to ignore it now

M0nica

Still avoiding the second comment VioletSky

Ehat did you expect M0nica?

Well I guess you better get the thumb screws out if this is an interrogation

Otherwise, I don't owe anyone any answers

Still avoiding the second comment VioletSky

I'm not unhappy, it's a very interesting subject

And I am also supportive and kind

I do not understand you pursuing a course that clearly makes you unhappy.

I also said that when I looked at estrangment threads, I did not see the plethora of judging and blaming posts you refer to. The vast majority seemed to me to be supportive and kind.

M0nica

If writing about your estrangement VioletSky has always ended up with negative comments why still do it?

Admittedly, I do not go on estrangement threads that often, but when I do I am not aware of all these posters judging and blaming those posting on the subject who are experiencing it. The vast majority of posts seem to me to be helpful and supportive.

Because I should be able to and so should all the EAC who have been and may come here

Sadly most have left but I am still here holding space for us