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Estrangement

Dear scapegoats

(57 Posts)
VioletSky Sun 02-Jul-23 21:55:27

www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/tech-support/202306/is-there-an-upside-to-being-the-scapegoat-in-a-toxic-family

There is always an upside

Scapegoated family members have an amazing ability to heal and grow as people. The more they try to bring their scapegoats down, the better we become smile

Mamasperspective Mon 03-Jul-23 14:17:02

Depends on the context of the situation as to whether the person is actually a scapegoat or whether they just point blank refuse to accept that their behaviour is wrong which has caused the conflict and then they won’t accept any accountability.

Oreo Mon 03-Jul-23 14:42:32

I don’t think the OP will like that one little bit Mamaperspective but I do!👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻A really good point.

Norah Mon 03-Jul-23 14:55:11

Mamasperspective

Depends on the context of the situation as to whether the person is actually a scapegoat or whether they just point blank refuse to accept that their behaviour is wrong which has caused the conflict and then they won’t accept any accountability.

And that ^ only matters if people actually care to some perceived conflict, apart from being happily un-enmeshed in "family". Not just everyone wants family in their spaces all the time!

Smileless2012 Mon 03-Jul-23 14:58:45

Yes, that's a very good point Mamasperspective.

fancythat Mon 03-Jul-23 15:16:58

Far better for it not to have happened in the first place.

And the hurt must be very deep and personal.

VioletSky Mon 03-Jul-23 16:25:01

Here are some signs of scapegoating by abusive people that are clearly identifiable:

1. They are verbally abusive to you

2. They take their problems out on you

3. They try to damage your reputation with others

4. They are pathologically jealous of you

5. They hold you to different standards of behaviour than themselves or others

6. They make you feel unwelcome or excluded

7. They expect support and help from you but are reluctant to reciprocate unless it benefits them

8. They demean or ignore your successes in life

9. They place the blame on you for everything

Scapegoats are usually the ones who seek help and support to deal with these situations and come to understand scapegoating that way. Thankfully scapegoats generally become far more emotionally healthy and happy than those who wished them harm

Beetlejuice Mon 03-Jul-23 16:32:20

I'd have to hear both sides of the story behind the estrangement before I could judge. Whilst one side could claim to be the scapegoat, the other side could have just come to the conclusion that they're tired of the other's behaviour and lost patience. Always 2 sides to any story in my experience.

VioletSky Mon 03-Jul-23 16:35:51

I think just supporting people who clearly need support is the best way forward

Obviously family scapegoats aren't one side or the other in estrangement anyway. We see plenty of stories of parents and grandparents scapegoated in families as well as stories from those scapegoated in friendship groups or workplaces

VioletSky Mon 03-Jul-23 16:37:15

Anyway hopefully someone finds the article helpful, it helped me and educating yourself on how others use abusive tools to scapegoat is so freeing because you can finally put down the burdens that aren't yours to carry

AGAA4 Mon 03-Jul-23 16:50:21

Being a scapegoat must be a very painful experience. Having someone turn others against you to bolster themselves is cruel.

There are two sides to a story but often we only hear one side and some people will believe that side and then scapegoating can occur.
I am wary of people who demean others and rarely believe everything they tell me.

Smileless2012 Mon 03-Jul-23 17:21:36

Yes it is cruel AGAA4 and painful to experience.

MerylStreep Mon 03-Jul-23 17:29:47

VioletSky

Here are some signs of scapegoating by abusive people that are clearly identifiable:

1. They are verbally abusive to you

2. They take their problems out on you

3. They try to damage your reputation with others

4. They are pathologically jealous of you

5. They hold you to different standards of behaviour than themselves or others

6. They make you feel unwelcome or excluded

7. They expect support and help from you but are reluctant to reciprocate unless it benefits them

8. They demean or ignore your successes in life

9. They place the blame on you for everything

Scapegoats are usually the ones who seek help and support to deal with these situations and come to understand scapegoating that way. Thankfully scapegoats generally become far more emotionally healthy and happy than those who wished them harm

It’s good to see that you’re healed and are over it.

imaround Mon 03-Jul-23 17:49:00

VioletSky, thanks for a great article. True scapegoating is a form of verbal (and sometimes physical) abuse. The people who this article is in intended for knows they are a scapegoat because they have done the work after an abusive childhood.

Lord, I am in therapy again because as my parents are aging and dying, it is bringing up issues that I thought I had worked through are coming back up. Being the victim of abuse is not something you heal from and get over. Like alcoholism, it is a lifelong struggle that ebbs and flows.

I literally heard things like "I am not surprised you cant keep a boyfriend" and "look at how big your ass is (when I has a healthy size 13 year old). Those were the most common. Then add all the parentification. Then add on trying to turn my children against me years later.

I have said for many years that being the scapegoat of my abusive mother was the best case scenario for me. Of the 3 of us, I am the "healthiest" for many reasons. IMO, the Golden Child is the one who will suffer lifelong from the abuse.

Smileless2012 Mon 03-Jul-23 17:54:14

I'm sorry that your parents age and health issues are resurrecting issues that you thought you'd dealt with imaround, and hope that your therapy will bring some much needed and deserved peace flowers.

VioletSky Mon 03-Jul-23 18:00:59

imaround it's incredibly frustrating that we need to get the professional support that our abusers should have sought for themselves.

I agree with you about the golden child, it's incredibly difficult for them to see and understand how toxic the home growing up was and then they repeat those patterns with their own loved ones.

What I have noticed though in other forums is the amount of people treated as a golden child breaking free seems to be increasing?

I truly hope one day we can put a stop to any abuse of children. Every child deserves to grow up feeling loved and wanted.

Every time I see a scapegoat breaking free and working to heal themselves it makes me so happy, when I see a golden child do it I have so much respect for them. Another toxic cycle broken

More education, sharing and enabling people to break free matters so much

Coronation Tue 11-Jul-23 08:40:24

How does the golden child suffer?

biglouis Tue 11-Jul-23 09:02:45

And that ^ only matters if people actually care to some perceived conflict, apart from being happily un-enmeshed in "family". Not just everyone wants family in their spaces all the time

My experiences as a child and young woman in a toxic family (where I was always the black sheep) led to my decision to be childfree. Ive never had the slightest interest in "family life" and have always shied away from it as an adult. It is well known that people who are abused may often go on to abuse their own children,

Some of the most hideous crimes are committed within "the family".

Family life - you can stick it where the monkey stuck its nut - to use a well known Liverpool saying.

seadragon Tue 11-Jul-23 09:28:15

Coronation

How does the golden child suffer?

I was interested in this post as I recognised, in my teens, that my sibling was being scapegoated and tried hard to mitigate the effect on her and challenge our parents while colluding at times as well, I suspect..... I was an only child for 11 years and could literally 'do no wrong' then she arrived and was strong willed, challenging and courageous... My role was as peacemaker and 'fixer' which gave me far too much power in the family. I grew up hyper vigilant, over controlling and feeling I had to be the one who 'fixed' everything in the family. I am only now beginning to let go, in my 70's(!) of that role with great relief as it is exhausting..... and can turn you into a martyr if you let it....!

Sago Tue 11-Jul-23 09:38:11

I was very much the scapegoat, I wish I had understood or even heard of NDP as I was a young adult, it would have made such a difference to my life.

Now as an adult having read and understood NDP I realise how our family dynamic worked.

My mother, father and brother are now all dead and I have total peace.

Sadly my mothers lies have left a legacy, there are many family members that believe I coerced her for money and heaven knows what else!

I have a good marriage, 3 amazing children and two beautiful grandchildren whom I love with all my heart.

We are a strong and happy family, I have what my parents could never achieve.

Coronation Tue 11-Jul-23 10:27:08

@seadragon thank you for sharing your story. I'm sorry you have gone through this, but your reply has helped me.

Smileless2012 Tue 11-Jul-23 11:00:19

Some of the most hideous crimes are committed within "the family" that's very true biglouise and often go unpunished with the victim receiving little or no help to come to terms with, and deal with their trauma.

Knowing that your abuser 'got away with it' makes healing difficult and can leave a legacy of believing that in some way they were responsible and are to blame.

Breaking the cycle of abuse isn't easy which can result in the abused child becoming an abusive adult while the cycle continues.

Not all 'golden children' are able to recognise that a sibling is being scapegoated seadragon and when they do, it isn't easy to go against their parents and try to protect the one being victimised in this way. You did well not just to see what was happening but to try and protect your younger sister.

The golden child can suffer because they can become enmeshed in their parent(s) behaviour Coronation, often unwittingly colluding in the mistreatment of a sibling and believing that this is normal and acceptable behaviour.

It can also result in an extremely close relationship with their parent(s) which when they reach adulthood, can be extremely difficult to break free from and have independence and autonomy.

You successfully broke that cycle of abuse seadragon. A lie becomes a 'truth' when someone chooses to believe it and the damage lies can do should never be underestimated.

eazybee Tue 11-Jul-23 12:13:14

I am wary of people who demean others and rarely believe everything they tell me.

So very true, because it is impossible to hear the other side unless you know the people concerned.

Which is why these threads are so dangerous.

grandMattie Tue 11-Jul-23 12:23:22

My parents, DF especially, strongly believed in “divide and rule”, but the last sister (one of 3) could do no wrong, it carried on into parenthood. Her son was a little sh.t, but they said that the sun rose and set from improbable places.
A friend mentioned that her stepdaughter was always in her MiL’s doghouse unless someone else deserved it.
I strongly believe that that was the case with me. It was useless arguing because DF was always wrong, and it was easier and less stressful to accept the blame. Sadly, I am now Pavlovian…

grandMattie Tue 11-Jul-23 12:24:00

… DF was always RIGHT! …