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Estrangement

Hurting Mum

(99 Posts)
Gurms Fri 04-Aug-23 17:58:53

About four months ago, I became estranged from both my sons and am hurting terribly. I am very depressed and cry to sleep everyday. I had lost my husband to cancer about five years ago and am still trying to overcome the loss. My eldest son who lives with me and his wife are expecting their first baby in September. My younger son lives by himself in Toronto. The misunderstanding started as my elder son wants to convert his younger brother room in the house to be his baby's room. Both had a fight over this and the younger son left in April and has not contacted me since. I have tried to reach out to him in anyway possible but to no avail. My elder son and his wife are not talking to me either as they feel that he no longer stays with us and he has no right to that room although I am the only owner of the house. None of them are contributing to the bills of the house. I am in a very stuck position as I really am not sure what to do. I have tried to reach out to my elder son but he has remained very distant and his wife completely ignores me. I feel very hurt that I don't ask them for any money and am still treated with no respect. I wake up feeling very depressed and a lot of anxiety. I used to be very close to my younger son and miss him a lot. Honestly, I really am feeling very lost and have no idea what to do. Any thought anyone? Thanks

Grams2five Sat 05-Aug-23 01:22:17

Oh dear , this is truly so awful. You need to contact a solicitor and a real estate agent. This sounds as if it’s bordering on financial abuse. Find out the proper legal ways to notify older ds and his wife that as tre sole owner you are selling the property and they need to vacate by whatever the law where you are allows. They sound like the type to try to fight it entitled as they are so lawyer up - you are in the right. Sell the property and find a smaller place for yourself to enjoy and live life on the profits. Do you have close friends ? Tou need people in your corner. Perhaps once this is done also notify younger ds that you’ll be moving around xx and when he’s ready you’d love to hear from him. I have a feeling he feels fed up with his older brother and believes you are siding with the freeloaders

BlueBelle Sat 05-Aug-23 05:41:31

This is an awful situation
A) the younger son does not own his room after he’s left home however I do think he’s the wronged one
B) elder son and family need gone it’s not his house ….it’s your house and as they are living rent free they are getting far more than younger son who is making his own way ….no wonder he’s bitter
C) if you don’t want to move out the house you love and has good memories for you then you need to consult a solicitor to see how you can manage removing your elder son
Does younger know they are living there rent free?
Unfortunately I think you are going to lose one son or other but it can’t stay like this
I think everyone on here has given you good advice
Let us know how it goes and VERY good luck

CocoPops Sat 05-Aug-23 06:43:30

Fleurpepper makes an excellent point above.
You are the sole owner of the house so it's your choice should you decide to move. Perhaps bringing your plan to downgrade forward is a good idea. You could tell your sons that although you and your late husband loved the house, now after 5 years of widowhood you have decided to have a fresh start.

(Your elder son has a condo so if you sold the house he can give his tenants notice and live there should he choose to do so.)

From what you say it seems unlikely that elder son and wife will pay you rent although a tenancy agreement (with rent including their share of property taxes, hydro, internet etc) is necessary in order to continue living at your house . Younger son is probably pretty p***ed off knowing his brother is sponging off his mother.

As others have advised above ... Quietly get your ducks in a row, get support, get legal advice, made a decision and then tell your sons what you are going to do. It's your decision and your decision alone.

It's an unpleasant situation for you but I think you'll begin to feel better as you start planning, Good luck.

Allsorts Sat 05-Aug-23 07:10:45

First if all, would your late husband want his wife to feel bullied by your e son and his wife. No wonder your younger son is fed up. Go to a solicitor get them out. I would put your house on the market and get the best accomodation for yourself. This will get worse. Your son and has wife are bullies and scroungers, they won't change, that's hard to take but burying your head in the sand is damaging you. you will lose everything eventually then what about you, they have no respect. That Dil is an absolute piece of work, that won't change. I would contact your younger son for support. Put yourself first, look after your future.

NotSpaghetti Sat 05-Aug-23 07:34:01

Deeda - I read it that the younger son left for Toronto after the argument with his brother.

NotSpaghetti Sat 05-Aug-23 07:41:03

I'm not sure where the idea that the daughter-in-law is "an absolute piece of work" came from, Allsorts?
It may be that the OP's older son is bullying her too?

eazybee Sat 05-Aug-23 10:00:52

This family row may be a blessing in disguise, because dear Gurms, you seem to be sleepwalking to disaster.
My thoughts are based on assumptions, so they may be wrong.
I am assuming that your elder son lived in the family home, and continued living there after he married and when your husband died. You continued supporting him and his wife despite them both earning well and cannily investing their money elsewhere. Your younger son lives in Toronto, my assumption is that he left home but was furious that his brother was taking over his old room, thus leaving him nowhere to stay if he returned.
All three of them are behaving appallingly by virtually estranging you, in your own home, particularly the married pair who are benefiting financially; your son has no right to continue living in your home because it was once his father's. I suspect when your husband died you were glad he/they were there, but he has taken a gross advantage of the situation.
Next they will be suggesting you surrender your rooms because theirs are too small until eventually you will be forced out of your home. (There are echoes of a book I once read about this happening to a woman but I can't remember the details.)
You need to clarify the situation with a lawyer and either register son and wife as lodgers with a legal agreement for payment, or more sensibly, get them out, although I suspect that will be difficult. Under no circumstances allow them to touch any other rooms for their new baby.
This is a horrible situation for you when you should be able to look to your sons for support, and spoiling your anticipation of a grandchild, but I fear if you do not take action now it will only get worse, financially and emotionally.
Your counsellor, by the way, does not sound to be of much use,

Fleurpepper Sat 05-Aug-23 10:22:47

NotSpaghetti

I'm not sure where the idea that the daughter-in-law is "an absolute piece of work" came from, Allsorts?
It may be that the OP's older son is bullying her too?

Well yes, and then ... If she was honest and fair, she would put her foot down- explain in no uncertain terms to her husband that the situation is not correct vis-à-vis MIL and younger brother, and insist on putting it all right and legal- to protect them both.

Sago Sat 05-Aug-23 10:26:33

What a sad situation.

Your sons are bullying you and you are weak.
The only solution to this is to ask your son and partner to leave.
Explain to them that it is your home until your death and you cannot continue in this way.

I think you will gain some respect from your sons as soon as show them some teeth.

Whatever you do good luck.

Fleurpepper Sat 05-Aug-23 10:26:37

In many countries, all children are protected under the Law when it comes to inheritance. It can be unfair if one or other of the children have spent much time and effort supporting a parent, and not the others- either because they live close, or whatever... But all children have to inherit the same % of part or all. So in this case, older son, after 'demise' of mother, would have to have the house valued by several Estate Agents- and would have to pay younger son 50% of the value- and a solicitor would also estimate the value of him and family living them for free for many years, and deduct from his share.

In the UK, this is not the case, I believe. So younger son would totally lose his share. How fair is that?

pascal30 Sat 05-Aug-23 10:29:52

This feels like a clear case of emotional and financial abuse by your older son and daughter in law. I would get a lawyer PDQ

Shelflife Sat 05-Aug-23 10:34:07

I am speechless!!! He earns good money , he and his wife are living with you and contribute nothing at all !!!!?????? He is assuming ownership and thinks because he is his father's son it ' owns' the property - WRONG!!! This is your property so your rules. He is taking advantage big time , if you don't stop it now where will his attitude of entitlement go next? Why are they living with you - what is going on?
Your relationship with them is already broken - Tell them both to take a hike - immediately. If you are not careful you will soon feel like the lodger and your son will take over every aspect of your life , so beware !! Act now , get them out. They then may just begin to see the error of their ways , but in your position I would' nt hold my breath. You have nothing to loose by getting them out , he has already taken your house , what's coming next. Big girl pants on,
get them to move out . Seek legal advice if necessary.

NotSpaghetti Sat 05-Aug-23 10:39:27

There is also a law about being in residence (in the UK, that is) - if over 18.
Not able to remember exactly but worth checking out.

I thought the son in Toronto had been "driven out" by the brother. May be wrong.

Either way, gurms - you have my sympathy. I feel if it were me and I was intending to move in the not-too-distant future I'd be seriously looking to move that forward.
If you start getting valuations and looking at the market where you want to move, you are at least wresting some control back.
💐
Thinking of you.
I think you will start to feel better once you have a plan.

Curtaintwitcher Sat 05-Aug-23 10:49:59

As the house is yours and your sons contribute nothing financially, any decisions are yours alone to make. Assert yourself and make it plain how you feel about the whole situation.

Sago Sat 05-Aug-23 11:14:21

NotSpaghetti

There is also a law about being in residence (in the UK, that is) - if over 18.
Not able to remember exactly but worth checking out.

I thought the son in Toronto had been "driven out" by the brother. May be wrong.

Either way, gurms - you have my sympathy. I feel if it were me and I was intending to move in the not-too-distant future I'd be seriously looking to move that forward.
If you start getting valuations and looking at the market where you want to move, you are at least wresting some control back.
💐
Thinking of you.
I think you will start to feel better once you have a plan.

In the UK if you have anyone over 18 resident in your home they need to sign documentation to allow you to sell!

NotSpaghetti Sat 05-Aug-23 11:33:02

I thought so, Sago. Also think they do if you remortgage.

Smileless2012 Sat 05-Aug-23 11:53:32

Are you sure Sago? I can't find anything that says so or if this is the case if you remortgage unless the other person regardless of age, has their interest in the property registered.

Callistemon21 Sat 05-Aug-23 11:53:56

Sago

NotSpaghetti

There is also a law about being in residence (in the UK, that is) - if over 18.
Not able to remember exactly but worth checking out.

I thought the son in Toronto had been "driven out" by the brother. May be wrong.

Either way, gurms - you have my sympathy. I feel if it were me and I was intending to move in the not-too-distant future I'd be seriously looking to move that forward.
If you start getting valuations and looking at the market where you want to move, you are at least wresting some control back.
💐
Thinking of you.
I think you will start to feel better once you have a plan.

In the UK if you have anyone over 18 resident in your home they need to sign documentation to allow you to sell!

Do you have a link to that information please Sago?

I thought an adult child could only have a claim on the property if they have invested in it, eg paid for an extension or improvements or paid a substantial share of the bills.

The OP lives in Canada, I think.

Smileless2012 Sat 05-Aug-23 11:55:06

That's what I thought Callistemon.

eazybee Sat 05-Aug-23 11:57:35

It causes endless trouble when estates are supposed to be divided equally between descendants. One refuses to agree to a sale; one insists on keeping the home for all the family, another says they did the bulk of the caring and was promised a larger share; a very long delay ensues before agreement is reached and the only people to benefit are the lawyers.
I think Gurms is intimidated by her children, and will have a hard time asserting her independence.

Smileless2012 Sat 05-Aug-23 12:11:46

It does look that way eazybee but I hope she'll be able too.

That's why wills are so important. It doesn't matter what someone claims they were promised if the will says differently.

VioletSky Sat 05-Aug-23 12:37:59

I would advise caution here

I want OP to be safe

I do think it is in their best interests to get serious advise on how to proceed from a proper source

Smileless2012 Sat 05-Aug-23 12:45:58

Plenty of posters have advised taking legal advice.

BlueBelle Sat 05-Aug-23 13:02:02

* Your sons are bullying you and you are weak
I don’t think this is a fair statement Sago one son has taken himself right out of the equation so isn’t bullying the mum and the mum is trying her hardest to do the best for both of them, so it’s hard to call her weak,

I do think you need to take legal advice Gurms and also I think you should warn the elder son that you may sell or even that you want him out because you never know it might just bring him to his senses
I m presuming your elder son never left home and sees it as HIS home/house to continue living in as he did when single
He’s not thinking straight at all is he ? Have you ever sat him down and said Jack you lived here for free growing up but now you have a wife and a child on the way and a GOOD job you need to contribute or get your own place is that really so hard to do?

Smileless2012 Sat 05-Aug-23 13:10:39

Younger son's stopped communicating with her though BlueBelle which is unfair and hurtful.