Hurting Mum

so Caleo, your advice would be if a tiger is nibbling your fingers, give him your whole arm for dinner, because hey you've still got one arm, haven't you... nice tiger, be good tiger...

gangy5

At the mo I would think it unadvisable to insist on any payment from them if you decide to move. This may be one obstacle to getting the removed.
This post makes me appreciate my situation so much. Both sons have such a good relationship as I do with them.

I agree. Payment of bills, improvements etc could give them a claim on the house.

I’m wondering if your elder son is trying to make life so difficult for you that you’ll move out. He sounds unscrupulous enough.

At this stage counselling may add to your confusion. As others have said, you need legal advice, and soon.

If the house is now in Gurms name as her husband has died, the elder son has no claim on the house. I agree that it would be unwise to get them to start paying rent, if she wants to get them to leave, or sell up and down size.

Getting the appropriate legal advice is paramount.

Haven’t read the full thread yet but looks like it’s time for your sons to all be gone out of the house, belongings and all.

No excuses for adults living anywhere not paying bills. They are being cheeky you-know-what’s and have worn out their welcome. You do not owe them anything, and while it may have been your husband’s house, it is yours before his sons’. You could will it to charity and there isn’t a darn thing they could do. The entitlement is terrible.

The younger son doesn’t live there so he doesn’t get even a small say in what goes on.

Let them behave like petulant children elsewhere.

VioletSky

I would advise caution here

I want OP to be safe

I do think it is in their best interests to get serious advise on how to proceed from a proper source

Agreed. She needs legal advice here. Who knows how far son and DIL will go with their entitlement. If he already thinks it’s his house, OP can’t rule out legal maneuvering from son to “take claim” before OP passes away. Also, squatters rights exist in many countries. It’s a legal minefield that requires expert guidance.

I would be careful that the older son (who seems "entitled" and bullying to me) might decide you are not of sound mind.
Take legal advice now.

If he is referring to your home as his father's house he obviously has a very misogynistic attitude. It is doubtful that the problems stem from his wife. I would think she just tags along with him.

Once you are out of this mess, safely, and ensconced in your own little home, you will be able to take stock of your life more effectively I feel.
In due course you will feel more yourself.

Wishing you all the best.

Caleo

Gurms, I understand why you are so sad and disappointed!

You need to retain your sons' love and respect but are struggling to do so.

My suggestion does not risk too much. Your younger son can be dealt with by writing him a friendly letter saying that he is still very welcome to sty with you and you can put a sofa bed in the sitting room (lounge) for him whenever he comes to see the rest of his family in Toronto.

As for the older son and his wife, please don't blame him too much as he may be misled by his wife. Above all, keep your own financial and ownership arrangements safe! At the same time be willing to let them use the younger son's former room and try to look happy about it. If it all gets too much for you you can pull the plug on them, or else get a smaller place with a nice room dedicated to younger son which you will offer to him.

The sexism really knows no bounds smh. The younger son is spoiled and does not need coddling. He doesn’t live there. It’s not his home or decision. He’s a grown man and he doesn’t need mummy to reassure him of a false entitlement. You don’t reward bratty behavior by kissing up to it.

The misogyny here is astounding. Please don’t blame your son because he may be misled by his wife? Why do some women hate women so much?

Her son is a grown man and responsible for his actions. Her son has a duty to treat his mother well since she provides for him. There is no reason to abdicate him of responsibility and put it all on his wife. No evidence he is being misled, and who could possibly be misled into being an entitled user? That’s a character issue. This is why men get away with hurting people. There will always be sexists, both male and female alike, that will seek to blame a woman for a man’s behavior.

Agree with DiamondLily wishing you all the best Gurms how utterly disrespectful.

I’ve got three sons and if any of them treat me like this they would be told in uncertain terms just how I felt. Take advice and get the eldest son to move out he sounds spoilt!

I think your eldest son and his wife have an eye on owning your house one day and if that were to happen your youngest son could end up with nothing. This is probably why he’s so angry knowing that his brother was just waiting for him to leave before grabbing his bedroom for his child.

I don’t like what your eldest son and his wife are doing or planning to do. What an appalling situation you find yourself in. You need to tell your son that he’s got to pay you rent and if he refuses then you tell him that he has to find his own place to live. I appreciate that with a new baby on the way that will not be easy but you cannot let them live rent free in your house. Does he know what your finances are. I get the impression that your eldest son thinks he can do what he likes in your house.

Find a good lawyer and make a will.

No response from Gurms. NotSpaghetti, where do I get my view of dil? The fact that she and Hubble rent their own house out whilst living (sponging) rent free and ignoring her host! She wouldn't have lasted a week either me. I would not be disrespected like that. If Gurms is willing to acceot that treatment it's ridiculous, she knows what she should do, the younger son must have been so frustrated watching all this played out. It shows favouritism for the elder son whilst being treated like rubbish. I cannot stand injustice or understand anyone being treated like the poster is, she knows it's wrong but does nothing.

Nightsky the elder son has his own condo just prefers to live rent free at home and rent his own place out
This is quite unbelievable to be truthful

Sorry Allsorts I read that differently.

My assumption was not that the daughter-in-law was part of the problem but that she was probably also under the thumb of the abusive son who appears to have an inflated sense of himself. The idea that he could do what he wanted in his "father's house" I found particularly telling.
I accept I could be wrong.
Maybe the daughter-in-law is just as bad? Who knows.

Gurms, I'd be inclined to put the house up for sale - and buy yourself a nice little flat or bungalow. Your duties as a mother and provider ended when your sons became adults.

They have both treated you abysmally - including not paying their way and claiming some 'ownership' over your home - now cutting contact and ignoring you. Your late husband would be appalled by their lack of respect for you.

Don't tolerate it. If necessary, call the police as it's plainly (financial) elder abuse. They can assist with evicting your elder son from your home - exactly what he deserves!

Nightsky the elder son has his own condo just prefers to live rent free at home and rent his own place out.^
This is quite unbelievable to be truthful.

Actually, it is not. In my road there is a forty year old son who owns one flat, rented out, and in the process of buying another, (worked with my son-in-law when he was doing so) but prefers to live at home with mummy and daddy. -much easier. I know this because his father has told me, ruefully, ; parents planned to retire to Devon but as their daughter (38) has now joined them, plus dog, horse and horsebox, they feel it wouldn't be fair! (I don't know if either pays rent, but I do know the daughter isn't working at present.)
Very kind, caring parents and their children take advantage of it, then turn aggressive when suggestions are made as to their independence, which I suspect is what has happened to Gurms.

In a nutshell, I'm afraid you have allowed all of this to happen. When you can see what you've done, sell the house and enjoy your life. You're worth it!

As an estranged grandmother, I have set up www.nationalgrandparentsregister.org. You will find support groups specifically for our situation and you can list your name on the Register so that your grandchildren can see you are waiting to hear from them. Check it out and help us have strength in numbers.

Sandy11 - I think Gurms knows what has happened but now needs a way out of it.
Thinking of you Gurms - I still think you should wrest control back by selling up. Sad it has come to thus but better than being ill.

Yes, I’m thinking of you too Gurms, and hoping you will put yourself first in whatever you decide to do.

Thank you all for your responses. Honestly, no one wants to be in the position that I am but sometimes things go that way because you try to be a good parent. My younger son left on his own will . I really have no words at the moment as I am too depressed. I am sorry but I have nothing to say at the moment. I know I have to be stronger but at this moment I really feel lost. Sorry Guys

Gurms - thank you for returning.
I think we are all wishing you well here and hope you manage to find a way through it all. What a mess!

I think once you have managed to get a plan together you will feel a bit better and a bit stronger. Formulating a plan is the tricky bit at this point.
💐
Please please take some professional advice.
Maybe you could speak to a women's support organisation for people suffering from abuse? I'm sure they will be a help.

Gurms your feelings are very understandable, and I would suggest you're feeling overwhelmed by what is to come.

My advice is to break each step down into manageable pieces. Once you've spoken with professional people you will feel stronger because you will eventually be able to see a way through.

I would keep my mouth shut in regard to your son and his wife, and only confide in people you can trust.

Life is full of challenges, if you can take small steps toward control of each situation you will feel stronger and more able.

Good luck.