Gifts to GC when estranged

I’ve read through this thread and I feel so sad . I know this will get me a bashing but as a prospective GM who has already been told I won’t be having a relationship with my GS I have terrible pangs of what I can almost describe as grief . At the very least, a cuddle blanket or a teddy would make me feel like he’s close to me . I realise I’m torturing myself here , but knowing this is being done out of spite is destroying me . The thought that the gift I’ve already chosen will never be touched or held by his little hand fills me with utter heartbreak. It’s almost a visceral need to know there’s a connection there between us . I’m missing him even though he’s not here yet which possibly sounds a bit mad . After all , any GP denied this relationship will understand that you begin to love them as soon as you’re aware of their existence even though they’re not even born . I love my grandson so much it hurts and by giving a small gift , I’d be creating a connection rather than doing something self- serving .
If this makes me a selfish , self- centred person then so be it . I bet anyone in my position if they were brutally honest would dearly love to be allowed to create a connection between the child and something cuddly to sleep with . I’m having a bad day - go easy x.

Go easy please x.

@smiles I’m disgusted by the nastiness on this thread . Some posters should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves and their comments. I for one , am struggling today and as a possible estranged GP ( well certainly from my grandchild anyway) I think all estranged GPs should be treated with kindness. This is truly a heartbreaking situation x.

Ladysuisei

Take a break, it's just different people and different opinions

Make sure you are resting and eating well

Everyone whose in pain and hurting deserves to be treated with kindness Ladysu and if anyone can't be kind, they should at the very least be civil.

I'm sorry you're struggling today. For a long time, the pain of our estrangement would come in waves sometimes unexpectedly and at the moment, you're struggling with the fear of being estranged, of the distinct possibility of never seeing your GS, as well as the fear of being estranged.

You're not selfish or self centred, you're just human.

@VioletSky
Thank you - I’m feeling fragile and incredibly sad xx.

@smiles yes all of a sudden it’s hit me today . As you say it comes in waves and, after all you would know this . I read some of the thread and I thought why can’t people be kind ? Yes everyone deserves to be treated with kindness but some of the comments were horrible.
No , I’m not self- centred ….im desperately wanting this connection. Just something to cuddle when he goes to sleep xxx

No one is saying anyone is anything

More that doing "that thing" might be

You are going through a hard time, step back, things will look different on a different day

Feelings muddy the waters, remember that disagreeing is not unkindness

Unfortunately some of the responses were unkind which is why Ladysu has been understandably upset and GNHQ felt the need to comment.

Ladysuisei

I’ve read through this thread and I feel so sad . I know this will get me a bashing but as a prospective GM who has already been told I won’t be having a relationship with my GS I have terrible pangs of what I can almost describe as grief . At the very least, a cuddle blanket or a teddy would make me feel like he’s close to me . I realise I’m torturing myself here , but knowing this is being done out of spite is destroying me . The thought that the gift I’ve already chosen will never be touched or held by his little hand fills me with utter heartbreak. It’s almost a visceral need to know there’s a connection there between us . I’m missing him even though he’s not here yet which possibly sounds a bit mad . After all , any GP denied this relationship will understand that you begin to love them as soon as you’re aware of their existence even though they’re not even born . I love my grandson so much it hurts and by giving a small gift , I’d be creating a connection rather than doing something self- serving .
If this makes me a selfish , self- centred person then so be it . I bet anyone in my position if they were brutally honest would dearly love to be allowed to create a connection between the child and something cuddly to sleep with . I’m having a bad day - go easy x.

I think you need to wait and see. The child isn’t born yet. Things can change.

Look after yourself. Forums can be a great source of support - but they can also be the opposite. Not everyone is kind, it’s a complete mix.

As I’ve said elsewhere - you are in the middle of a partner/spousal bereavement.. That can be a pain like no other. You are ultra-sensitive.

Look after you and wait and see what happens with your son/grandchild.

Look to supportive people for support, whoever they are, and ignore the rest.

Best way.💐

Smileless2012

Unfortunately some of the responses were unkind which is why Ladysu has been understandably upset and GNHQ felt the need to comment.

Exactly why I went completely offline for a while. Forums can be great, but when you’re fragile, not always!

There’s always someone..🙄

The removed comments weren't addressed to LadySuisei at all

Hope they weren't thought to be

The removed comments were addressed to me and in addition there were unkind responses to Ladysu and other posters which is why GNHQ also felt it necessary to comment.

It's a pity that a posters fragility isn't always taken into account isn't it DL.

Yesterday a post was out up by a grandparent who had recently contacted her grown up grandchildren, estranged because of her son, but a couple of replies were awful and must have upset this lady. I do hope she's reading this and knows that they don't speak for us, she did nothing wrong was in fact just doing what we would all do. We don't choose estrangement neither do the children so why it's felt necessary to be cruel I don't know.

I hope she's reading this too Allsorts but unfortunately when especially a new poster receives unwarranted nasty replies, they rarely return to the thread they started and more often than not, don't return to GN.

It's not that difficult surely to be able to see the difference between someone who for very good reason has decided to estrange, and someone whose heartbroken because they've been estranged.

There does appear to be a propensity for those who have been estranged or fear estrangement, to be given a hard time. I've never understood why but it's usually the case and although I wish it would, I doubt it's going to change .

Sometimes responses on Gransnet can be quite harsh, even nasty. I’ve read many posts over the years about how we should never interfere in our children’s adult lives, and essentially I agree with that, having had a mother who had a tendency to interfere and who said things out of turn. I took the advice partly because of my mother’s behaviour but also because, to quote Jane Austen ‘it is a universally held truth’ that mothers should not interfere. Now, given the situation that our daughter finds herself in, I wonder if we should have ‘interfered’ although it probably would have had little effect. When a woman (or indeed a man) is being controlled by their partner, they are unlikely to see the point of view of any other person until eventually they become aware themselves.
We don’t know if Ladysu’s son is being controlled, but from what I’ve read, it seems that the DiL has become upset over the remark why didn’t you tell me? I certainly had a lot more offensive remarks made to me by my mother, and indeed by my SiL whose supercilious behaviour was disliked by my two sons from the day they met him! I on the other hand, tried to be non judgmental and welcoming to a person who had the capacity to behave offensively from early after I met him. Ladysu I know nothing I can say will help, but try to take a step back. I’d keep the communication channels open with your son and try to offer the support of a mother to him, but do not engage in any arguments or judgemental comments at this stage. When baby arrives, ask interested questions, but offer no advice. Above all, be kind to yourself, things may very well easily change.

I don't think had you 'interfered' it would have made any difference in a positive way maddy. It might even have made the situation worse, resulting in your D being put under more pressure leading to you being estranged.

Thank goodness that you've managed to maintain that relationship. What an unthinkable situation it would be for her to be in another country, in this upsetting and frightening situation, if she didn't have or didn't feel she had her mum and dad there for her.

Even if as a parent, if there are 'red flags' in your AC's relationship, the indoctrination happens over a period of time. A gradual drip feed of criticism and questioning of the person they're seeking to control and manipulate's family.

It's subtle, so subtle that the one being coercively controlled can't see it even if it's pointed out to them, and so subtle that often their family can't see it either, until it's too late.

@maddyone yes I’m not interfering in the traditional sense of the word - it’s keeping in contact really. I never offer advice unless it’s asked for . With the “ why didn’t you tell me ?” Comment? Well what I actually meant was if I’d have known then I’d have understood how to react better. Not just asking why didn’t I know per se . I was really shocked to find out about a pregnancy which may be being lost ( wasn’t thank god) , but not being able to react appropriately was so hard . I had to manage so many different emotions all within the space of a few seconds which is hard . I been speaking to my sons best friend who I know really well , as did my late partner, and he’s going to let me know if my son is ok . I’m so worried about them both - I love his wife so much , I would never hurt her . Gosh this has become out of control without me being able to do anything about it and I’m so upset. I’m trying to take a step back but after our previous close relationship it’s very hard

@smiles that’s terrifying to suddenly find your AC being controlled. I don’t know if mine is or whether it suits him to be controlled by someone different. He’s told me I’ve always been controlling- this suited him at the time because I was caring and attending to his every whim . I just don’t get what’s going on in my life , but like you it seems to be spiralling out of control without me being able to much about it . I’m trying to take a step back but when you’re used to a certain way of life this is so difficult xxx

@maddieone
I’d already decided that once the baby here is offer NO advice. Who is to say my way would be the best way ? Not me and certainly not my AS and DIL . They need to learn their own way - but I’d love to have an involvement in my GS’s life , especially as this whole business has been so unnecessary. Under normal circumstances a comment like I made would have just gone unnoticed, not blown up out of all proportion like it has done xxx

Ladysuisei

@smiles that’s terrifying to suddenly find your AC being controlled. I don’t know if mine is or whether it suits him to be controlled by someone different. He’s told me I’ve always been controlling- this suited him at the time because I was caring and attending to his every whim . I just don’t get what’s going on in my life , but like you it seems to be spiralling out of control without me being able to much about it . I’m trying to take a step back but when you’re used to a certain way of life this is so difficult xxx

Not being harsh, but from what you’ve said, the one spitting his dummy out being abusive, and trying to dictate about what you should be doing with your late partners ashes is your son.

The comment you made, unless there’s a backstory, seems innocent enough, and not worth all the drama that’s been generated.🤔

Again, I would concentrate on getting over the loss of your partner and your house move.

Life often pans out if you stand back for a while.🙂

It was the gradual change in his behaviour, and how he changed as a person that was disturbing Ladysu. You think you know your own child, because you've known them their entire life. How can you have got it so wrong?

I don't blame him for doing what he believed to be best for his family, especially the children. If he'd told us that for the sake of his family he could no longer have anything to do with us, and that we'd be kept away from our GC, God knows that would have been bad enough.

What really almost destroyed us were the lies he told to his brother, and to friends some we'd known since they were at primary school together.

The worse thing of all was trying to come between us and his brother, to try and destroy our relationship with our only other child.

About 3 years into our estrangement when we were visiting our son in Aus., during a conversation I told him that there'd been a time when we thought we'd lose him too. He just looked at me and said "that would never happen mum, because I'm not like
.....". It was only at that moment that I realised he could see it too.

@smiles yes it’s terrifying how these things creep up in you without even noticing. I’ve certainly not noticed the change I. My AS until it is too late . I wonder if I’ve been negligent or clueless but it’s more obvious things going on behind the scenes than I’ve been aware of . Someone pointed out to me today actually that I don’t know what’s going on I his house , his life etc . I’m not aware of potential issues and problems that he’s not told me about . Obviously he’s choosing not to tell me these things but there could be good reasons for this . He did tell me they had warned me that I might not be part of my GS’s life - I don’t remember it being that way . They didn’t give me a reason for example. This whole thing has blown up since Xmas day when we actually had a lovely time together. The 3 of us , which is why I’m so confused. Ever since , things have been so strained , he’s been extra abusive towards me and his wife has refused to see me . Yet on Xmas day , she gave me dinner ! What on earth is happening ? Either I’m just oblivious or they planned this with precision, something which you tell me happened to you . It feels absolutely awful.

I would caution against thinking a couple who is trying to safely bring a baby into this world is plotting away to estrange someone who has regular contact with 50% of the couple. Sometimes things build up. In a stressful pregnancy, it's perfectly natural to draw a line in the sand and distance from people who stress you out a bit. A pregnant woman who almost lost a baby has every right to take measures to keep their stress down. No one matters as much or more than the child she's trying to bring into this world. You may not be aware of the straw that broke the camel's back, but it doesn't mean it the straw doesn't exist. Compassion for people other than ourselves can go a long way. If we only think about how things impact us, we cannot expect others to prioritize our feelings.

@Diamondlily yes my AS definitely spitting his dummy out . He’s controlling me and he’s being very cruel .
No , there isn’t a back story regarding the comments I made about not knowing that my DIL was pregnant. At 11 weeks , you’d have thought I might have been told , at least for information purposes. I found out when she was having a threatened miscarriage by accident, meaning it was totally impossible to react in exactly the right way . Emotions were running too high for lots of thought and analysing over my choice of words. I was elated , but immediately terrified. I don’t know how they expected me to react under these circumstances. To ask the question why didn’t I know was simply to assist me in a situation like that . How can you react perfectly to something you know nothing about ? This is beyond my level of communication powers . I did my best under horrible circumstances, bearing in mind we were in A&E already , getting my kidneys checked out for yet another Acute kidney Injury. I’ve been monitored for kidney disease for a while now , so all these factors just collided . I personally think they have been incredibly harsh to me , expecting the correct words about something I was unaware of for whatever reason.