Gifts to GC when estranged

@March - it’s my AS who argues and me who wants the “ heavy “ conversations!!
Never mind . Anyway, once I’d given him the opportunity for a more meaningful conversation that was declined I thought right it’s plan B . My plan B is neutral, conversation chatting about life etc .,we discussed his work , my upcoming move , we talked about the baby but in general terms ( this wasn’t the nasty no you’re not seeing him response either ?) and he stayed 2 1/2 hours and went home . I miss him and will do whatever I can to repair this . He doesn’t want estrangement I can see this - we’ve made arrangements for next week and he messaged me about the move earlier . He’s very stressed understandably, I have told him they’re going to be great parents what more can I do . Hopefully you can see I’m not the mother ( and MIL ) from hell , just someone whose life has gone totally pear shaped through circumstance. I’m sure when my DP was alive , we all had good , funny conversations but it’s hard to remember the good times just yet . I might have been relying on my son for emotional support he was unable to give me . He’s lashed out an awful lot to protect what he has in life . We lost our way . I’m sure we can come back from this . I’m fully expecting his wife’s mother to be involved with the baby before I am . I just hope I will in fact have this precious relationship in my life because as things stand there’s no reason why I shouldn’t.

Lady that's absolutely fantastic, I'm so happy for you! It sounds like you've both making progress.

No one wants estrangement, it's horrendous for both sides, please believe me.

I don't think you're the mother in law from hell at all.
You said this was all new and unexpected, I think it's circumstances and mismatched expectations that's all.

I think you've been through a lot and you're continuing to go through it.

You're hurting, your son and DIL are going through it too and it's just not a good mix is it? So much emotion rolling round.

Do you text your son? Maybe a text once a week just checking in, making sure they are all ok and here if you anything? Just a suggestion. Might be nice to hear as a mom to son.

"I might have been relying on my son for emotional support he was unable to give me. He's lashed out and awful lot to protect what he has in life. We lost our way. I'm sure we can come back from this."

This is great self-reflection! Definitely progress. I too think you both can recover from this. I think it will help tremendously if you lean into those statements, and manage your expectations for after the baby comes. Keep in mind that it will be a high-stress, sensitive time after birth and your son may have even less time to reach out to you. It won't mean he doesn't love you. It won't mean he and his wife are evil and selfish. They will be busy and sleep deprived, so it is best to keep conversations light on a constant basis. It will be a time where you will put your needs and wants to the side even more until they adjust to their new family. The best way to show love and support to new parents is to refrain from adding any additional stress. Best of luck!

Ladysuisei

@March - it’s my AS who argues and me who wants the “ heavy “ conversations!!
Never mind . Anyway, once I’d given him the opportunity for a more meaningful conversation that was declined I thought right it’s plan B . My plan B is neutral, conversation chatting about life etc .,we discussed his work , my upcoming move , we talked about the baby but in general terms ( this wasn’t the nasty no you’re not seeing him response either ?) and he stayed 2 1/2 hours and went home . I miss him and will do whatever I can to repair this . He doesn’t want estrangement I can see this - we’ve made arrangements for next week and he messaged me about the move earlier . He’s very stressed understandably, I have told him they’re going to be great parents what more can I do . Hopefully you can see I’m not the mother ( and MIL ) from hell , just someone whose life has gone totally pear shaped through circumstance. I’m sure when my DP was alive , we all had good , funny conversations but it’s hard to remember the good times just yet . I might have been relying on my son for emotional support he was unable to give me . He’s lashed out an awful lot to protect what he has in life . We lost our way . I’m sure we can come back from this . I’m fully expecting his wife’s mother to be involved with the baby before I am . I just hope I will in fact have this precious relationship in my life because as things stand there’s no reason why I shouldn’t.

Keep it light, keep it cheerful, and he gets heavy, just suggest you leave things for a few days and talk later.

I’m not sure why expecting a child should cause him this much stress, but it obviously is.

For what it’s worth, daughters do usually gravitate towards their own mothers before their MILs - all quite normal.

Don’t be bullied, don’t get heavy, just be laid back and cheerful. 😉

I’m not sure why expecting a child should cause him this much stress, but it obviously is.

Possibly his mother? Maybe? Just cause it's an estrangement thread I'm going to throw my experience in.

My MIL (not at the time) text my husband (not at the time)
while I was in fully established labour, the full on works...he didn't reply obviously.

She rang the hospital for an update on me, they couldn't give out my medical information, she than rang him and left voicemails and texts because he wouldn't answer her.

Only saw them when he rang to say she was here.

I'm not saying this is Lady in any shape or form.
Mr March was very stressed and not by me!

@march yes I feel we have made progress. Estrangement and impending estrangement is horrible. It’s surprising just how easily a situation becomes out of your control too .

Yes the circumstances of this last year have been a recipe for disaster. I’ve struggled immensely with my partner’s sudden death . He was my everything. A beautiful person inside and out, he was funny , kind , thoughtful, but most importantly he kept me level headed too . This sort of fall out during my DILs pregnancy would not have escalated had he been here by my side .
I have relied heavily on my son which has caused an issue with his wife .
Definitely mismatched expectations going on ! I have to now work very hard at living independently with my cat for company and accept the situation as it is .

There has been so much emotion rolling around. Grief is so unpredictable and I think my son expected me to follow a set pattern . Unfortunately it’s messy and doesn’t follow a set pattern does it ? Also pregnancy- all those hormones, combined with the stress and worry of a threatened miscarriage has caused difficulties for my DIL I know . Normally, we all got on so well but this has been a really testing time .

I think avoiding heavy subjects for a while will be the way forward together with the occasional text to see how they’re doing and this may help matters.
I’m seeing him again next Sunday at my dads where I’m staying until hopefully I move into a nicer flat 😊

@DiamondLily
Well I say stress because I don’t know otherwise, but when I see him he’s looking so tired . Now he has an incredibly demanding technical job where he has to use his brain all day 😬 he does work from home but long hours .
I’m aware that my DIL is having a “ difficult “ time . Don’t know what this means but I have my thoughts.
My son finishes work around half 6 maybe 7 . He then cooks dinner and clears up . He’s looking after his wife .
So actually I think he’s doing too much . I’ve not said this obviously because I’m not going to offer any opinions unless asked EVER !
I will keep the conversation light for the time being. He declined any offer of a more meaningful conversation so I will leave this now unless he asks me to talk . Maybe after the baby , things may just settle down who knows , but I’m aware that his plan is to look after the baby for the first few weeks. He’s off work - I don’t understand what’s going on . When I had my son , my ex husband went back to work the day after . I had support off my mum for a while , but largely I was on my own coping and I had an emergency c/ section after horrendous complications.
My son’s situation is quite strange I feel but I’m not asking about it xxx

@March omg !!!
Mind you when I was in labour 30 years ago , because I had serious complications, I was I a special delivery suite with a relatives room next door . Well it was filled with my family . Mum , dad , sister , brother in law and my ex husband popped in and out giving updates . It did go pretty pear shaped, so my labour ended with the surgery doctors running down the corridor with the bed ( me in it obvs) into theatre for emergency surgery. My son got stuck and we nearly died . My family stayed overnight until I was out of surgery and no longer in danger. My son went into special care - he was allowed visitors , so my family saw him and I was left alone with my husband. They were a pretty hands on family 😂😂

Actually my MiL wasn’t there because she lived away . A real family affair that . I didn’t have any more after this .
On a more serious note , I have felt a low level of anxiety right through my DIL’s pregnancy just incase she has a large baby who also gets stuck . I’ve not mentioned my fears to them obviously. This last few months have been dreadful. So , if anything, this particular MiL will only be interested to know the baby has arrived safely . No phone calls . No checking up . Just the result .

Ladysuisie it is now very common for men to take 2 weeks sometimes more of paternal leave when they have a baby. So common in fact it eould be very strange if a new Dad didn’t do this. There is even an option if doing shared parental leave wih the mum where men can take longer, though I’m not sure how many actually do this xx

Oh gosh, if working and cooking dinner is too much...

I don't know how I survive as a working mother of 5 lol

It's not too much to take care of your household and family and these days men are expected to contribute to both, rightfully so

SingcoTime

"I might have been relying on my son for emotional support he was unable to give me. He's lashed out and awful lot to protect what he has in life. We lost our way. I'm sure we can come back from this."

This is great self-reflection! Definitely progress. I too think you both can recover from this. I think it will help tremendously if you lean into those statements, and manage your expectations for after the baby comes. Keep in mind that it will be a high-stress, sensitive time after birth and your son may have even less time to reach out to you. It won't mean he doesn't love you. It won't mean he and his wife are evil and selfish. They will be busy and sleep deprived, so it is best to keep conversations light on a constant basis. It will be a time where you will put your needs and wants to the side even more until they adjust to their new family. The best way to show love and support to new parents is to refrain from adding any additional stress. Best of luck!

All of this. And don’t keep score abo her mother. It may well be she wants her mother around soon after delivery and post partum time etc. it’s a vulnerable time die a new mother - so best course of action is not to lay mind or care about her mother. It’s not a competition to score grandchild points on and nothing is more stressful than grandchildren keeping tabs and demanding “fair play”. Be grateful for whatever uour relationship is and not bother about anyone else’s

@VS his wife isn’t working, they don’t currently have a child…………
I noticed he is very tired and stressed - he’s doing a very stressful job too . What’s wrong with this ?

@grams2five who on earth is keeping score …

@Josie yes I’m aware of the 2 weeks but that’s all they tend to get paid for , so he needs to bring in the ££££

@VS I notice you say contribute. At the moment my son is doing everything. His choice I suppose but nevertheless no wonder he’s full of stress .

Ladysuisei

@VS his wife isn’t working, they don’t currently have a child…………
I noticed he is very tired and stressed - he’s doing a very stressful job too . What’s wrong with this ?

Absolutely nothing is wrong with this. He's a man with a pregnant wife and a career. This is very normal and expected. He is also a man dealing with a stressful conflict with his mother. Please be careful with assumptions of how their little family should function, and the division of duties. I have noticed that many new grandmothers misstep by comparing the normal practices of their day to what modern young families look like today, and far too often it is the mother of the man who complains that her child is tired or doing too much for the family he created. Women have been holding down jobs and raising families, sometimes alone, and no one bats an eyelash. Your son being a male does not make him incapable of doing the same. Please do not infantilism him. He is a big boy now. He is showing you as much by prioritizing his wife, as he should.

He will no doubt be changing diapers, giving his wife a necessary break from being with the baby all day, cooking, cleaning, and doing all the things some generations tend to think is "woman's work". None of it is woman's work. It's simply taking care of one's family. Please mindful of any judgements you may utter, as this tends to inflame conflicts with grandparents. The way young couple's run their families looks very different to 30 years ago and there is nothing wrong with the change. Nothing at all. It's good that you share these thoughts here and not with your son! This is very wise of you!

Ladysuisei

@VS his wife isn’t working, they don’t currently have a child…………
I noticed he is very tired and stressed - he’s doing a very stressful job too . What’s wrong with this ?

His wife might be unwell. It’s unlikely you are getting the full story from her mother.

How they manage their family is naught to do with you. Please don’t turn it into a stick to beat your DIL with.

Re: keeping score, it appears you are. Constantly mentioning the maternal side knew about the pregnancy and is more involved.

Stop getting information from DILs mother. It only seems to upset you.

I know you say you aren’t overly interested in DBT, but I’m adding my voice to that chorus. I sincerely think it would help you save these relationships, especially that between you and your son

It doesn't matter, he should be doing his share of household chores, I really respect him for that

Ladysuisei

@grams2five who on earth is keeping score …

What I meant was don’t spend time worrying over how much her mum is involved. Whether her mother gets to be there after delivery , when she’s invited how much time she spends with them ( especially in those early days right after birth) It’s not relevant. And it’s none of your business. Given the situation , if you’re allowed back in so to speak, a chance to have a relationship with all of them again / it may well be after that time
Period. It may well be her mum is there sooner and more frequently , especially given all that’s been going on but even if it hadn’t. It matters not. And “keeping score “ on whether you’re being treated “fairly “ only ends in hard feelings. Worry only about your own relationship with your son and his family and remember that their relationship with her mim has no bearing on yours.

No, I wouldn’t keep score. Even in the happiest of families, new mums tend to gravitate towards their own mums. Perfectly normal.

I do understand that the son has a pregnant wife, a job, and a widowed parent, all of which can cause worry, but I’m not sure why it’s all stressing him quite so much.

These are all normal events.🤔

@SingoTime well obviously I’m not sharing my opinion on the situation with my son , but I’m seeing him weekly and actually he looks dreadful. Really stressed and tired . You know that yesterday we had a much better time , so none of the stress came from his interaction with me . If he’s feeling guilty and / or stressed by what’s been going on between us , he’s had ample time to tell me what’s wrong. He’s never once told me to back off - he says very little. I’ve chosen to back right off in response to his behaviour towards me . I realise that , possibly ( probably) I’ve confused his role with that of my partner and I’ve expected more than he ought to be giving , emotionally which I regret . This wont happen again because I’ve recognised it for myself.
I have to “ manage “ my own grief in my own way , which is proving to be so difficult but has to be done . Actually at the beginning, I thought me and my AS would grieve together- after all he’d lost the man who had been his stepdad for 20 years . Or 2 thirds of his life . My partner and my son shared a close relationship. This closeness would be less for my DIL of course but she’s been part of our family for 13 years and she was a great source of comfort to me in the aftermath of my DP’s death . She identified his body - something I was not capable of doing and I will always be so grateful for her calm presence at this time .
I am very aware how times have changed in 30 years - when my son was born , the whole family rallied around and it was lovely.

@DismondLily no I don’t understand why he’s quite as stressed as he is . It puzzles me because as you say , everything he’s going through are normal things xxx

@Grams2Five you really don’t seem to understand that I fully accept the fact that my DIL’s mum will be on hand straight away . I always expected this . I chose to make my MiL feel included from the off , particularly as the birth was so high risk . She was understandably worried and to have excluded her would have been really mean . I’m not a mean person!

Ladysuisei

@SingoTime well obviously I’m not sharing my opinion on the situation with my son , but I’m seeing him weekly and actually he looks dreadful. Really stressed and tired . You know that yesterday we had a much better time , so none of the stress came from his interaction with me . If he’s feeling guilty and / or stressed by what’s been going on between us , he’s had ample time to tell me what’s wrong. He’s never once told me to back off - he says very little. I’ve chosen to back right off in response to his behaviour towards me . I realise that , possibly ( probably) I’ve confused his role with that of my partner and I’ve expected more than he ought to be giving , emotionally which I regret . This wont happen again because I’ve recognised it for myself.
I have to “ manage “ my own grief in my own way , which is proving to be so difficult but has to be done . Actually at the beginning, I thought me and my AS would grieve together- after all he’d lost the man who had been his stepdad for 20 years . Or 2 thirds of his life . My partner and my son shared a close relationship. This closeness would be less for my DIL of course but she’s been part of our family for 13 years and she was a great source of comfort to me in the aftermath of my DP’s death . She identified his body - something I was not capable of doing and I will always be so grateful for her calm presence at this time .
I am very aware how times have changed in 30 years - when my son was born , the whole family rallied around and it was lovely.

No adult child can take the place of your spouse/partner. They are totally different relationships.

I don’t know why your son is so stressed about two fairly normal events (pregnancy and working), but he must have his own reasons.

But, yes, you do need to manage your own grief. Theres nothing stopping you contacting friends/other family etc for support though.🙂

@VioletSky yes I’m proud to see how he’s throwing himself into the whole family thing , I just worry about him that’s all . He works incredibly hard and normally his job alone would see him pretty wiped out by Friday evening!