Gifts to GC when estranged

why didn’t you tell me

Is that the crime?
Good grief, I can barely believe it.
I asked my daughter that question about a much more serious allegation than that!

As far as I know we are all mothers VS and commenting as such and those who are also GP's are commenting as GP's too.

maddy last August the OP was taken to hospital by her d.i.l. and sons m.i.l. because she was feeling quite unwell. While there, her d.i.l. kept going to the toilet and then rushed over to the reception. She asked her d.i.l's mother what was wrong and was told her d.i.l. was pregnant, was bleeding and they were worried she might lose the baby.

The OP hadn't known she was pregnant so was obviously shocked at the news and worried. When her son arrived she asked him why she hadn't been told.

This is the unforgiveable act of an unwell, shocked and upset mother.

Good grief!
Do we know how far along she was in her pregnancy?
I suppose if it was just a few weeks, it may have been understandable that she wasn’t told, as many people don’t like to tell until the first three months have gone by. However I would have thought close relatives, such as a mother, would know. How on earth can anyone give support and empathy in the event of a miscarriage if they don’t even know?

It sounds like a ridiculous over reaction from DiL to me!
But what do I know?
I’ve only ever had to deal with real abuse in the family!

Badgering a prospective parent potentially on the cusp of losing their unborn child in the moment it is happening--as if your feelings about it mattered as much as the actual parents--is about as self-centered as it gets. After all, it's not terribly hard in such moments to realize it wasn't the time or the place. Most mums would swallow their pride and gently address it later if at all. Minimizing it or doubling down is horrible. It's really not that hard to simply say nothing at all if you are incapable of being supportive. Feelings are one thing, but to not have a filter in such a moment is a different problem all together. That is telling them that no matter what they were going through, they needed to prioritize LadySu's feelings first and foremost. That's not motherly. That's not decent. No one wants to go through a pregnancy with someone around who doesn't realize that not everything is about themselves. It's stressful enough on its own. The son has offered to keep contact. What harm could possibly come of the OP just taking a step back and respecting boundaries?

I think under those circumstances I would have said something along the lines of oh my goodness, I didn’t know, I’m so sorry. Is there anything I can do.

I remember very well when my daughter had both her miscarriages. I tried to help. It was very, very sad, and hard to know what to do or say, except to sympathise and hug her and love her.

Pride, badgering, making everything about them!!! It never ceases to amaze me how some posters can see things that simply aren't there.

Yes it is hard to know what to do or say maddy and regardless of how clumsily the OP may have expressed herself, it doesn't IMO say much about her son and d.i.l. that this be held against her to the extent that her son is continually verbally abusive, and she's been told she'll never see the baby.

It makes no sense either that it was months after this happened before it was decided her reaction was unforgiveable.

So sorry to hear that ladyS I know it must be so hurtful but what you can do perhaps is put money aside for your grandson and give it to him on his 18th birthday with a short note explaining the circumstances he’ll thank you for that, regardless of what his parents think. Good luck

Perhaps they’ll come round

Smileless2012

As far as I know we are all mothers VS and commenting as such and those who are also GP's are commenting as GP's too.

Just keep loving your family but steer well clear 💕💕💕

That's another good idea Bonnybanko, leaving it in your will or perhaps passing it on when your GC is say 25 and old enough to be hopefully feel comfortable to accept "regardless of what his parents think".

"Just keep loving your family but steer well clear" sound advice .

Smileless2012

Pride, badgering, making everything about them!!! It never ceases to amaze me how some posters can see things that simply aren't there.

Yes it is hard to know what to do or say maddy and regardless of how clumsily the OP may have expressed herself, it doesn't IMO say much about her son and d.i.l. that this be held against her to the extent that her son is continually verbally abusive, and she's been told she'll never see the baby.

It makes no sense either that it was months after this happened before it was decided her reaction was unforgiveable.

It's my experience that some people will store up incidents to use negatively in the future . At our son's wedding during the photos OH jokingly told DS to take his hands out of his pockets. Two years later DIL (now ex, thank god) quoted this remark as proof that we ALWAYS criticised our son. By this point DS was so stressed by her behaviour that he didn't know what to believe and several times said "I feel like I'm going mad"

That's our experience too eddie. Incidents aren't just stored up but grossly exaggerated when they miraculously resurface again as was the case in your example.

You must be so relieved that she's now your ex d.i.l. .

Exactly the point I was making

I am commenting as a mother and one who understands the importance of not becoming an estranged one by learning how to have positive relationships and manage difficult ones

VioletSky

Exactly the point I was making

I am commenting as a mother and one who understands the importance of not becoming an estranged one by learning how to have positive relationships and manage difficult ones

The vast majority of mothers understand the importance of not becoming estranged and already have positive relationships. Their ability to "manage difficult ones" will count for nothing if a third party has malicious intent

Depends on the mother I would guess

It takes 2 to argue

And when not everyone agrees on what boundaries someone else should be able to have, that's often when issues arise

Of course, unhealthy people generally don't ask for healthy boundaries and certainly don't respect those of others

VioletSky

Depends on the mother I would guess

It takes 2 to argue

But Estrangement doesnt always come from argument! It takes 2 two WANT to build a relationship in the first place, too. Each case and cause is different.

VioletSky

Depends on the mother I would guess

It takes 2 to argue

It does not "depend on the mother". The most perfect mother in the world doesn't stand a chance if a third party takes against them - for malicious reasons. As for "it takes 2 to argue" I agree with Madgran. There are lots of estranged parents who have never been involved in an argument but have been cut off without explanation. It's impossible to argue with someone who refuses to communicate with you!
If you really believe that your parenting style makes you immune to estrangement you are living in cloud cuckoo land.

Exactly Madgran and sometimes it better if there is an argument then everything is out in the open. Hurt feelings can be aired and dealt with in an appropriate manner. Apologies can be given and received and the relationship can move one, because that's what all healthy relationships do.

Behind the scenes stirring; storing up things that have happened in the past, often ones that the other party is unaware of because it's never been discussed to be used at a 'later date' and planting seeds of discontent, are not conducive to a relationship, let alone a healthy one and are tactics often seen when the goal is to destroy, rather than build.

Of course the vast majority of mothers understand the importance of not becoming estranged eddie. We are all in the main mothers here, and some are GP's too. Maybe some who have been estranged, are better placed to understand how important it is to avoid it if possible because they live with the pain and heartbreak. Things that have to be experienced to be truly understood.

You're spot on when you say "their ability to manage difficult ones counts for nothing if a third party has malicious intent".

"It takes 2 to argue" but it only takes one particularly clever, controlling and manipulative individual to destroy a family.

If you really believe that your parenting style makes you immune to estrangement you are living in cloud cuckoo land.

I've often wondered over the years eddie if that's why some EP's/GP's and or those fearing estrangement are often given such a hard time, such as has been experienced by the OP.

If those of us who say we don't know, that everything was absolutely fine until a third party became involved, that we were never abusive, controlling, selfish and never wanted to be the centre of our AC's lives etc etc are to be believed, then it could happen to anyone couldn't it.

Maybe it's easier to 'believe' it must be something we've done because if not, if it's happened to us, it could happen to them.

I think there are lots of things that people believe could never happen to them....until it does!

Not related to Estrangement specifically but there is a connection in terms of personality types...there are some people who, however much someone gives in time, effort, caring, understanding, compromise, fairness, positivity, opportunity etc ...never give anything back, they just take. Seen it many times as a leader in the work place.

And that applies too in terms of being an AC; a partner; aMil; a SiL; a DiL...family relationships and other relationships!

If you are dealing with a narcissistic personality, you cannot ever be in the right, because narcissists believe everything they do and say is correct. They can borrow thousands of pounds from you (because you want to help your child) and repay some and then leave for another country and never pay you another penny, whilst they still owe you thousands. They will allow you to mend things for them, do their gardening, walk their dog, sort out and keep their cars mots done. They will overspend money on themselves ‘because I’m worth it’ and then blame their partner. They will abuse their partner in different ways, including complete control. This is only part of what a narcissistic child in law can do.
And there are plenty of them about!

If you are dealing with a narcissistic personality, you cannot ever be in the right, because narcissists believe everything they do and say is correct. I agree Madgran and everything they do and say is about them. They don't care about anyone else including their spouse/partner and sadly for their children, them too.

I think there are lots of things that people believe could never happen to them....until it does absolutely and that includes good and bad things.

Apologies maddy my first paragraph was in response to you and my second in response to Madgran.