Gifts to GC when estranged

We can never in life guarantee outcomes either in relationships or estrangement.

Yes and even if it comes from a stranger Bridie a box "filled with living thoughts" is something that many I'm sure many appreciate.

With so much information available on line, it can be relatively simple for GC to find out about the GP's they never knew so if the time comes for them to find them, or receive a gift of a memory box left to them, they may not be the stranger to them they could have been.

That's very true Bridie

No but what we can do is evaluate whether we are truly putting someone else's needs first or whether an act is actually about our own needs

Sometimes that is hard to do from one perspective and other perspectives must be considered as potential outcomes to the child

The child is who matters here are they not? Not either adult involved in the rift

It does always surprise me in these threads then number of estranged grandparents who seem to believe , perhaps because it helps them, that their grandchildren whom they’ve never met will one day come
Looking for them desperate to know them and I wonder how often this turns out to be true. In my own experiences I have not seen it once, instead I’ve seen adult grandchildren contacted by the estranged grandparents irritated by the contact of these strangers claiming to be owed some sense of familial relationship - and it never seems to end the way so many thinki it will. Grandparents they’ve never met are rarely that significant of a concern to adults. Especially when they’ve a good relationship with their parents and a strong sense of family. Why would they be ? They are literal strangers.

Estranged grandparents can Leave the memory box and put it together if that brings comfort to oneself, I don’t think there’s any harm in it, at worst the intended person tosses it in the bin. A feeling of being able to “defend “
Ones side of the story if you will and paint yourself as whatever type of grandparent you wish you had been, but recognize that doing so is about your closure not theirs.

The child is who matters here are they not? Not either adult involved in the rift

I agree. The trouble is in this scenario (and each case will be different) it's a bit of a leap in the dark as to whether an adult grandchild will appreciate it or not. But the fact that they were estranged from their grandparent will always be part of their life experience. And the box puts another context to that for them to consider. It may be positive , it may be negative, it may be healing, it may not ..but it will be something and as an adult they will do whatever they do with it.

Equally nothing left by an estranged grandparent would also always be a part of their life ..negative, positive, hurtful, not hurtful ...and so on

So all anyone can do is what feels best in their own situation in the context of their Estrangement and their grandchild.

If it was me I probably wouldn't but I don't think that means it is necessarily wrong for someone else's grandchild

I wouldn't trust anyone who couldn't fully consider the implications of their actions with their grandchild, adult or not.

A potential thing to do instead would be to pass photo albums and heirlooms down as usual to the actual adult child and let the normal situation where they choose what to keep and pass on resume

Sending anything personal related to estrangement in any way may simply result in those things being thrown away

Give yourself the best chance of remaining as part of someone's heritage/history by keeping your feelings away from it

VS A potential thing to do instead would be to pass photo albums and heirlooms down

Yes that is another possibility.

Whatever is left might be thrown away but I suppose the one who has left it will never know anyway...

Wow,distrust VS, but photo albums and heirlooms figure large in my memory box!

As a GP you are part of your GC's heritage, you're the parent of one of their parents.

A GC may wish to look at and keep the contents of a memory box or they may choose to throw it away. If they're adults when the box is past in to them, as adults they will have the right to decide for themselves and it is not up to their parents to make that decision for them.

The GC may be grateful, they may not. They may thank their parents for never having known their GP's or may resent them for it, no one knows until it happens.

I'm not desperate to know our GC and would prefer it if things stay as they are, but I do want them to know that they were loved and thought of during our life time. I would also like them to know something about their great GP's too.

A sweeping generalisation that any GP choosing to leave their GC a memory box in their will hasn't fully considered the implications of doing so is wrong, and extremely judgemental.

Photos will be in the memory box we leave our GC too Bridie. None will be left to our ES as I very much doubt he'd want them but our GC might, and if they don't they can be discarded.

"So all anyone can do is what feels best in their own situation in he context of their Estrangement and their grandchild" exactly Madgran.

welbeck

you sound so bitter and eaten up with resentment towards your son.
have you thought of counselling.
don't waste your life living in with all this negativity.
you need a different outlook.

What a negative post, totally lacking in any compassion or understanding.
I don’t think Ladysuisei sounds at all bitter. She sounds sad, which probably is how most of us would feel.

People should do what is best for their grandchild, not themselves

That's why I wouldn't trust them with their grandchildren adult or not

For what it is worth, I have put together a family photo album to pass down and all family members are included as are good memories.from childhood etc

No point in carrying down I'll feeling through generations and I hope that good work is not undone "in the will" because that would be an awful shame

I agree maddy and who can blame her, it's a very sad state of affairs isn't it.

You're doing it again VS, attributing the worse of intentions to people you don't even know by suggesting that deciding to leave a memory box is driven purely by selfishness on the part of the GP.

Exactly

Yes it is Smileless.
I haven’t read Ladysu’s posts on the estrangement thread, but I get fed up with the total lack of compassion I regularly see on Gransnet about family discord. Unless there has been severe abuse I can see little that’s right or pleasant in vindictive family breakdown. It’s not normal and it’s not pleasant, but for reasons I don’t understand, we seem to see more of it these days. Maybe that’s because of social media and other types of media. Maybe it always went on, but we didn’t hear about it. I came from a close and supportive family but my own mother had certain personality traits which were hard to deal with. However I never abandoned her, nor did I not allow her to see her grandchildren. She loved her grandchildren and they loved her. I loved her and miss her, but I don’t miss some of her behaviours. Now I have a narcissistic ex son in law to deal with, who has been described as possibly sociopathic by a councillor. Long story, I’m not going there on this thread, but I know you know something about it Smileless.

Ladysu, I just wish there was more compassion in the world. It is absolutely not normal for anyone to behave towards their mother as your son is doing towards you, as you say you don’t know what prompted this, apart from your partner’s death.

How dare you judge my intentions VS,you know nothing of my life and situations,
Can I ask if you are an estranged grandparent?

No Bridie VS has said on Gransnet that she’s the estranger. She may very well have good reasons, but that’s why she’s always so supportive of the estranger, not the estranged.

maddyone

Yes it is Smileless.
I haven’t read Ladysu’s posts on the estrangement thread, but I get fed up with the total lack of compassion I regularly see on Gransnet about family discord. Unless there has been severe abuse I can see little that’s right or pleasant in vindictive family breakdown. It’s not normal and it’s not pleasant, but for reasons I don’t understand, we seem to see more of it these days. Maybe that’s because of social media and other types of media. Maybe it always went on, but we didn’t hear about it. I came from a close and supportive family but my own mother had certain personality traits which were hard to deal with. However I never abandoned her, nor did I not allow her to see her grandchildren. She loved her grandchildren and they loved her. I loved her and miss her, but I don’t miss some of her behaviours. Now I have a narcissistic ex son in law to deal with, who has been described as possibly sociopathic by a councillor. Long story, I’m not going there on this thread, but I know you know something about it Smileless.

Ladysu, I just wish there was more compassion in the world. It is absolutely not normal for anyone to behave towards their mother as your son is doing towards you, as you say you don’t know what prompted this, apart from your partner’s death.

She does know what’s caused it. She has said over and over again on her various threads. She acted selfishly and inappropriately when learning of her son and daughter in laws threatened miscarriage of their pregnancy. Her son has FLAT OUT TOLD HER SO. He has told her that he and his wife find the behavior unforgivable at this time. This is not a case is someone being suddenly ignored and having no idea why (in fact she’s not even being ignored she. Has a son who is still regularly doing all sorts of things at her behest for her including bf driving her and her pet from one place to the other etc ) She has been told what has happened to cause the unpleasantness . What people are reacting to is her own refusal to see the writing on the wall in front of her and instead just insist that she’s had a significant loss (and she has and sympathy to that ) her son shouldn’t be upset with her about anything. She knows her cause of her problems but rather than address that - even if it means simply having to give it time - rather than attempting t make oneself out to be the victim of totally unwarranted behaviors. We can find her situation sad , unfortunate , heck posters can feel her son is in the wrong but let’s not all continue to act as though she “doesn’t know”
She knows.

Lack of compassion is one thing but it doesn't have to be expressed nastily which is sometimes the case, but maybe that says something about those who do respond in that way.

"vindictive family breakdown" that's an interesting observation maddy. Families do breakdown but is it necessary for the process to be carried out in a vindictive way and/or to create the rift, the breakdown purely out of vindictiveness?

Yes I do know something of what you went through with your mum, to say it wasn't easy would be an understatement especially toward the end. Now you have the awful situation with your ex s.i.l. and all the worry for your DD and GC.

I wish there were more compassion in the world too and when it's lacking that there'd be more of not saying anything, if you can't say nothing nice.

maddyone

No Bridie VS has said on Gransnet that she’s the estranger. She may very well have good reasons, but that’s why she’s always so supportive of the estranger, not the estranged.

No that's not true, I just feel people need to know when certain behaviours are unhealthy. It doesn't matter what their situation is or who estranged who.

As I keep reminding people, I estranged my mother but others in my family estranged me. I have also experienced alienation from a parent and a grandparent.

So my views come from many perspectives...

It isn't right to try to colour others opinions of me by stating otherwise... Unless you want to achieve silencing of perspectives that may save relationships or future harm... Which I hope you would not.

This forum is for all of us

Correct this forum is for all of us I agree, I do not need you telling me my actions are unhealthy, you speak from a different perspective not being an estranged grandparent, totally different scenario to your estrangement of a parent.

What's selfish and inappropriate when being told that there are concerns over your d.i.l's pregnancy, a pregnancy you knew nothing about, you say to your son "why didn't you tell me"? It's what I'm sure would be the initial response from many a shocked mother.

If this was such a terrible thing to have said last August, why had the relationship gone on as before until Christmas? Why is it only recently that her son and his wife have decided to find this unforgiveable?

This is not the reason, if it were this would have started then so when she says she doesn't know, she doesn't know and just because you think you know Grams2five doesn't mean you do.

I cannot say that advice to take an unhealthy action is healthy when it isn't

I cannot say nothing when a mother is losing her relationship with her son and I don't want to see that happen

OP is a mother, I am also a mother

I am not defined by my estrangement and really, being a mother does not define me either... But being a mother is of huge importance to me and like anyone else, I am surrounded by a circle of other mothers, each with different stories and lessons learned the hard way

So here we are.

I may read this forum because yes, I am estranged but I don't really need to talk about it anymore I am commenting as a mother

Grams2five thank you for your limited explanation. I didn’t know anything about this poster (to my recollection) and so I don’t know her backstory. Obviously there’s more to it than I actually understand. Nonetheless she must be hurting and therefore I think she deserves some compassion, something some posters show little of. I don’t know what happened over the threatened miscarriage. Are you saying Ladysu lacked compassion or did/said something out of order? To be honest, I’m very much a peacemaker and would therefore suggest that perhaps all parties involved sit down and try to calmly talk this through.

I have to say this didn’t work long term with my ex SiL. We did sit down several times with him and try to broker peace, but long term he didn’t want peace. He is a very controlling person and I cannot put on this thread all the things that happened, but suffice to say, he wanted complete control of our daughter and his behaviour has been abusive towards her in my and other’s opinions. We are trying to support our daughter which presents difficulties as she was eventually persuaded to go to live in New Zealand with him. Of course the house of cards fell down then and she finally left him. We spend time with her here in NZ each year, and the situation is rumbling on.
I just deleted a crucial line which would have aided understanding, but thought it best not to put on here. I acknowledge the difficulty in full understanding when we are limited in what is safe to disclose.