Is “ No Contact “ abuse ?

Madgran77

*Singco. Many here are giving you honest, good advice. Yet you seem to be listening only to the voices that inappropriately diagnose psych issues with their DILs and unsurprisingly do not have healthy relationships themselves with their sons.*

I am aware that LadyS has said she is listening to my suggestions re communicating more effectively with her son, really listening and demonstrating that he has been heard, self reflecting on her own behaviours and other possible perspectives on that etc!

Therefore she is NOT only listening to people who "diagnose psych issues with their DILs" and "unsurprisingly do not have healthy relationships themselves with their sons."!! I cannot imagine how you would surmise that about me (inaccurately) from anything I have ever said on GN!

I'm not saying the above to "make it about me" or to "take offence". I just think that if one is going to criticise someone for "only listening to ..." or whatever then accuracy is crucial, otherwise the criticism will not be heard and is decidedly unhelpful if one wants to help!

If it didn't apply to then you shouldn't have taken it personal. If it did, oh well. Either way I stand fully behind my comment. You are welcome to agree or disagree. My opinion remains the same.

Singco. If it didn't apply to then you shouldn't have taken it personal. If it did, oh well. Either way I stand fully behind my comment. You are welcome to agree or disagree. My opinion remains the same.

You appear to have missed the point. You gave a generalised comment about only taking advice from .... but if you looked at my advice and the OPs comments regarding listening to that advice then the generalisation comes over as inaccurate as I have not said anything that implies what you said re DIL or relationship with son! At the very least you should say that you are making an assumption about the posters the OP is listening to.

The point is you can "stand by your opinion" but if it's based on a criticism of the OP only taking advice from an incorrect assumption on your part then it is inaccurate criticism of the OP.

I'm not taking this personally and made that clear in my comment. I AM concerned that for criticism to be helpful it needs to be accurate!

It's true I am afraid

No mother should be contacting their child and asking for help on a daily basis

No mother should be expecting to know every detail of their son and DILs personal or medical experiences... and should never be hurt they didn't know sooner

No mother should be expecting their child to carry their emotional burdens. We have friends to talk too about our woes and it should never be used as leverage or to make others feel guilty

Too many mistakes are being made here and this relationship is close to the edge of being lost entirely

Please take a big step back. You may not like what others are saying on this thread but all the information you need to keep your relationship with your son and mend bridges with your DIL is here

Please don't join the ranks of permanently estranged and unhealed

Madgran77

*Singco. If it didn't apply to then you shouldn't have taken it personal. If it did, oh well. Either way I stand fully behind my comment. You are welcome to agree or disagree. My opinion remains the same.*

You appear to have missed the point. You gave a generalised comment about only taking advice from .... but if you looked at my advice and the OPs comments regarding listening to that advice then the generalisation comes over as inaccurate as I have not said anything that implies what you said re DIL or relationship with son! At the very least you should say that you are making an assumption about the posters the OP is listening to.

The point is you can "stand by your opinion" but if it's based on a criticism of the OP only taking advice from an incorrect assumption on your part then it is inaccurate criticism of the OP.

I'm not taking this personally and made that clear in my comment. I AM concerned that for criticism to be helpful it needs to be accurate!

My comment and advice wasn't for you. Whether YOU feel it is helpful isn't something I'm concerned with. I can't really say it any other way Madgran.

VioletSky,
What an excellent post, as usual!

Whose contacting their child on a daily basis and asking for help? Whose expecting to know every detail of their son's and d's.i.l personal lives and medical experiences?

Plenty of parents of AC share their emotional issues, that's not expecting them to carry them or using them as emotional leverage or to make their AC feel guilty. The same can't be said for telling a mother/m.i.l. that she'll never be able to see her GC.

It may be difficult for the OP to see that some of what's been posted here is intended to help her situation because of the way some of it has been delivered.

Being permanently estranged doesn't necessarily equate to being unhealed VS. Many EP's heal and in time realise that there is a life after estrangement to be enjoyed by with those they love who love them in return.

Respectfully, I am talking to OP Smileless and not engaging you in conversation here

Well respectfully when you post, anyone can respond to what you say whether you're specifically engaging with them or not.

Yes of course

But I am choosing not to respond to you Smileless and letting you know I am here to help the OP in the hope she can turn her situation around

That's OK VS you don't need to tell me you're choosing not to respond, just don't.

@SingoTime

Don’t want to be rude or anything but have you ever heard the phrase “ less is more “ .
Less waffle , more factually correct information and sticking to the point might have got your reply a read . As it stands , I really couldn’t make it past the first third …….
[Do you always post like this ………….

Singco. My comment and advice wasn't for you. Whether YOU feel it is helpful isn't something I'm concerned with. I can't really say it any other way Madgran

Well as you appear to be misunderstanding my point I also dont know how else to say that I am NOT talking about me or about it being helpful or otherwise to me!! I cannot imagine why you might consider that I would have thought you were addressing me per se as you made it quite clear that you were addressing the OP!

I am talking about criticism based on inaccurate statements/criticism bring unhelpful to WHOEVER IT IS BEING GIVEN TO!! In this case to the OP as it states that she is only doing something and that is not the case!

I see no point in continuing this and derailing the thread. I am sure other posters will get the point. If you dont then so be it!

I hope the OP can glean something helpful from the advice given by many posters!!

Ok Smileless

VioletSky Those would be words to be treasured, said calmly and sincerely, no ifs or buts
....
Madgran I'm sorry VS I'm confused about which words you mean?

As you havent responded to my query above VS I'm going to make a guess that you were referring to this comment by Sago

"just calmly asked me how we could move forward and what she could do to allow her be a part in our family".

If that is the case(apologies if I'm wrong) then I agree with you. Calmly and sincerely, no ifs or buts in that context, is a good way forward.

Madgran77

*Singco. My comment and advice wasn't for you. Whether YOU feel it is helpful isn't something I'm concerned with. I can't really say it any other way Madgran*

Well as you appear to be misunderstanding my point I also dont know how else to say that I am NOT talking about me or about it being helpful or otherwise to me!! I cannot imagine why you might consider that I would have thought you were addressing me per se as you made it quite clear that you were addressing the OP!

I am talking about criticism based on inaccurate statements/criticism bring unhelpful to WHOEVER IT IS BEING GIVEN TO!! In this case to the OP as it states that she is only doing something and that is not the case!

I see no point in continuing this and derailing the thread. I am sure other posters will get the point. If you dont then so be it!

I hope the OP can glean something helpful from the advice given by many posters!!

I'm sorry, I can be a bit more plain. I'm not debating my comment with you. I'm not obligated to engage you. I am sure others are more interested in a back and forth with you about the various posts from this OP. I am simply am not one of them. I hope that clears some things up for you.

Ladysuisei

@SingoTime

Don’t want to be rude or anything but have you ever heard the phrase “ less is more “ .
Less waffle , more factually correct information and sticking to the point might have got your reply a read . As it stands , I really couldn’t make it past the first third …….
[Do you always post like this ………….

The facts that matter are that your daughter in law has put distance between the two of you--which is NOT abusive. Your relationship with your son is on the rocks. Your son will stand by his wife and scapegoating her will not end well...for you.

You may find this all amusing, but my mother in law behaved like you are now. Over a decade later and she has no parts in her son's life. No parts of our children. She also fashions herself a victim of her daughter in law's influence. Less is more. Less self-pity and more support toward your son would do you wonders. I don't condone the way he speaks to you, but I also don't condone telling adults they shouldn't keep their boundaries. They know what's best for themselves, and keeping you at a distance is not wrong. I really do hope one day you gain the self-awareness you need to prevent yourself from joining a really unfortunate club of people estranged from family. Truly, I do.

Omg children!

I'm sorry, I can be a bit more plain. I'm not debating my comment with you. I'm not obligated to engage you. I am sure others are more interested in a back and forth with you about the various posts from this OP. I am simply am not one of them. I hope that clears some things up for you

I'd already withdrawn from the conversation any way! And I dont need anything "cleared up for me" as I'm not missing the point, but whatever! 🙄

Allsorts

Omg children!

It may come over like that Allsorts but that is not the intention on my part. I feel strongly that criticism given should be based on accurate facts not generalisations, that's all, but I've been unable to get that point over apparently. Oh well, so be it.

It has taken me a long time to decide to write this and I am not trying to make any similarity to anyone
In my case no contact would have been very positive but that was not what I was persuaded to do
I was the daughter-in-law in a very toxic relationship
My mother-in-law did not attend my brother-in-law’s wedding
She did attend my wedding to her son, but turned up very unkempt And did not attend the reception
I guess my sin was marrying her son and having his children
This woman was very manipulative and unpleasant she told lies to anyone who would listen including phoning his place of work My brother-in-law and his wife eventually went no contact
Her lies drove a wedge between her sons that lasted about 15 years
I decided to try and be positive cos that’s what husband wanted
Once she retired husband had lunch with her every week and we visited her with family about once a month She would frequently phone up just before we were about to set off and say she had another arrangement or occasionally would just not be in
Likewise if she was due to visit us she would cancel or not turn up she had a car
She was attention seeking to anyone who she made feel sorry for her cos her family were so awful
When our boys were teenagers she move to sheltered housing in a village about four miles from us she was fairly fit and walked the dog three times a day
She came to us most Sunday afternoon and had her supper with us
She had a new set of people to tell her tale of woe to
We had the same GP snd even he said how sorry he was when he realised the relationship
To give you some indication of her manipulative powers she manage to get herself into daycare placements four days a week
Other son now back in contact took her shopping one day a week
Before returning home he would bring any paper work round and have a coffee before his hours journey home
This was not liked by mother in law One of her day care places was the local cottage hospital I knew people who worked there and apparently she told anyone who would listed that I was having an affair with my brother in law
I could go on and on but one last point she tried to drive a wedge between me and my boys
What she said to my husband I have never been told
With greater awareness of narcissism I think I would definitely attract that label
So I am aware of passive aggression and not speaking as a way of manipulation
No contact would have made life so much easier I tried I really did try
My sister in law never did make contact but who knows the actual effect as she remained so bitter

These "narcissistic" mother in laws weren't mothers in laws all their lives.
So, presumably, they were narcissistic daughters in law in their younger years?

Gwyllt I'm sorry that you went through that. Very hard and painful for you and your husband.

MissAdventure yes very true. Which does seem to suggest that every case is different and not always "narcissism"! Sometimes it's just human behaviour, possibly misjudged, within stressful situations. Sometimes responses might be exacerbated by other previous events and behaviours. Who knows except those involved, as every case is different

Yes, I've a couple of friends who had to be quite forcibly put into their rightful places when their sons found wives, and rightly so.

My nan used to come round clutching her handbag like a shield, and would never take her hat off as she "wasn't staying".
She didnt think my mum was good enough for her boy.

Good point MissA @ 8.36. If a m.i.l. is indeed a narcissist, she wont have become so overnight when her son or daughter married.

Your description of your nan "clutching her handbag like a shield" and never removing her hat because she wasn't staying did make me smile, but it must have been very difficult and hurtful for your mum.

There without a doubt some very difficult in law's out there Gwyllt. Mine was pretty awful too, to the extent that I had no contact with her for several years but she continued to see her son and our boys.

Our relationship changed quite quickly when my f.i.l. died and we became very close. She still had her moments but we ended up loving one another and I miss her now she's gone.

For a long time I wasn't "good enough for her boy" MissA but I think I became 'good enough' in the end.

I'm sure it hurt my mum, looking back on it now.
Apparently, nan cried that her boy knew nothing about the "birds and bees" when he and mum decided to marry.
I think he was 29!

Good grief I wonder why she came up with that delusion.