Strength after narcissistic abuse

It's good to know that your D's situation is in the hands of a lawyer maddy. I hope this being the case gives you and her some peace of mind, no matter how small .

That's a great metaphor Frogoet. Not all families are demonstrative and love is conveyed in other ways, like speaking to someone several times a week.

Frogoet, forgive me for repeating what my daughter's psychiatrist said. Not a counsellor but the psychiatrist when she was diagnosed. He said that the name is an alternative to BPD because a lot of victims of this horrible condition, find the original title quite offensive. He called it Emotional Dysregulation Syndrome. Should I ever get to meet him again, I will certainly tell him he's wrong.

Misinformation is concerning especially when it comes from a professional who should know that emotional dysregulation/emotional dysregulation syndrome is a component of BPD, so someone with emotional dysregulation doesn't necessarily have BPD.

My mother was a simple, country girl from Southern Ireland. She did her best having married a horrible man and having seven children and no support system.
I am in two minds about the fact that she took me to the dentist when I was 11 and let him take all of my teeth out when it was unnecessary. She would have done whatever a medical professional told her to do. I knew from that day that my life would be difficult. I could never do that to a child. Yes I know things were different then. I believe she also knew some of the things that were going on in the house, which I won't go into here.

Oh Kate how awful

I believe my mother is NPD and knowing that not only helped me get the right help, it also went some way towards helping me forgive her

But abuse is always a choice even if a personality disorder makes it easier to make that choice

Every single one of us knows right from wrong. We know when we are deliberately trying to cause harm to someone else and no matter what ends a narcissist goes to to justify their behaviour... There isn't one

I’ve only known one person who I’d describe as a narcissist, and that didn’t dawn until after he’d died. In public, and to 99% of those who knew him, he was a ‘big’ personality, very sociable, life and soul of the party type.

Very few (but inc. dh and I) ever saw how unkind, selfish and controlling he often was with his wife of many years - he was very careful not to show such traits outside the home. The vast majority of people thought him no end of a good bloke. He needed always to be the centre of attention, so resented very much his wife being ill - it should have been him getting all the fuss.

However it was only after he died, when evidence of a very carefully concealed long-term affair came to light, that I put all these factors together.

Interestingly, someone he once knew socially through work (a psychiatrist) had told his wife before they were married that he had a ‘very complex’ personality. Looking back, it was a veiled warning.

Did her husband predecease her Witzend? If so, I hope the remainder of her life was free of abusive control and she found some peace and happiness.

Neither of my parents are diagnosed with a personality disorder. They aren’t the problem. Ask them, they’ll gladly tell you.

Everything they ever did was either a lie I made up, never happened, or they don’t remember. My mother bragged about her ability to manipulate people and punish those she believed wronged her. She would smile as people cried. She enjoyed it, because they were getting payback for whatever they did wrong (which boiled down to defying her).

I know this because she flat out said so.

There’s something wrong with someone who enjoys hurting people. Call them a narcissist, antisocial personality, it doesn’t really matter. What DOES matter is by looking at these people in such context, it gives their victims a way to put things into context. It really ISN’T the victim’s fault or responsibility. There’s nothing they can do to fix the situation. They can let go and take care of themselves and work on healing.

That was the biggest relief of my life, realizing that everything I’d experienced was almost certainly the result of personality disorder parents vs me being a terrible, unlovable child who deserved the bruises and welts and psychological trauma.

Forgiveness isn’t the same as reconciliation.

I am really sorry for all of you that had to experience such awful behaviour from parents.

I cannot say I have had a narcissistic parent myself, but my husband's mother surely cannot see beyond herself.

It took him until adulthood and having a family of his own that he realized his former version of a normal parent/child relationship was anything but.

My MIL is spiteful, selfish, and self-centered but would flip everything around and try to make it seem that her wants were what was best for anyone who disagreed. She wasn't verbally abusive but used money to control her sons until they broke away. For us, she thought giving a "gift" of a downpayment meant she could come and go as she please from our home, arrange things the way she liked, give countless unsolicited "suggestions" that she actually checked to see if we followed up with. A chain smoker imo, even getting her to wash her hands before holding our newborn was a struggle. She simply knew better than us and every health agency in the world. The guilt trips never ended. Wanted to control aspects of our parenting as well. Decided for herself that she would be our childcare, even though she was never a consideration. Made my husband feel awful for setting boundaries. When things broke down, she shared "her side" with as many people as she could to get them onside.

She has always had poor relationships with female relatives, partly because she sees them as a threat. Her mother, her MIL, both DILs. She cannot see the common factor in these conflicts. She overstepped and made far too many attacking comments to others about us as parents before my husband decided to end the relationship with her. Manipulation and alienation were her go-to plays when her boys were growing up. FIL is wrapped around her finger. My husband refused to allow her to be in a position to eventually pit our children against us.

She does not have a close relationship with the son who still keeps occasional contact, yet she projects this relationship as close because everything is about appearances with her. This son has not physically seen her in God knows how long, with no immediate plans. We love him but have had to stop him from relaying the negativity from her about us. Apparently she is still selling her story that I "stole her son" and he is being "controlled". They reality is that I was her only hope of mending the rift at one point. I do not pressure my husband to reconcile at all now.

I like to leave the diagnosing to the people who studied years to become qualified to do so. However, even without the most abusive behaviours that so many of you have suffered, I'd wager my MIL would also be diagnosed should she gain the self-awareness to seek professional help. There are definitely spectrums of abusive behaviour.

I say all of that to say, my husband was in therapy for quite a while addressing the years of manipulation and self-esteem lowering guilt-trips that his mum caused. It has helped tremendously. He is a very confident man now and an excellent father as a direct result. I hope all of you have healed as much as one can from abusive parent/child relationships.

I receive daily messages from my daughter and the messages usually include yet more about the behaviour of her ex. I try to support her from here, so many thousands of miles away, as do her brothers and her father, but it’s difficult knowing she’s so far away and being subjected to almost daily narcissistic abuse, usually in the form of refusing to answer queries about the children, who are in the middle of it all, poor little things. Refusal to discuss properly or make proper arrangements is classic narcissistic behaviour and so very wearying.

We have a friend in Las Vegas in the same situation maddy. Both she and her ex have remarried but he continues to disrupt hers and the children's lives at every given opportunity.

He wont discuss things properly, messes with arrangements and fills the eldest boy's head full of unattainable dreams of being a professional footballer, wanting to take him out of school for trials miles away, sometimes requiring over night stays and when she refuses because he really isn't talented enough, and they couldn't afford it if he was, he tells their son she's ruining his life and standing in his way.

The poor boy doesn't want to do it anyway, but is too afraid of his father to say so. Despite being very happy in her second marriage, she says she's living a nightmare and will never be free of it until all 3 boys are old enough to be legally independent of their father.

maddyone

I receive daily messages from my daughter and the messages usually include yet more about the behaviour of her ex. I try to support her from here, so many thousands of miles away, as do her brothers and her father, but it’s difficult knowing she’s so far away and being subjected to almost daily narcissistic abuse, usually in the form of refusing to answer queries about the children, who are in the middle of it all, poor little things. Refusal to discuss properly or make proper arrangements is classic narcissistic behaviour and so very wearying.

Maddyone I am sorry to hear that your daughter and grandchildren are in this situation, you must be worried sick. May I reccomend this book for your daughter. “Splitting” by Randi Kreger and Bill Eddy. It is very helpful in navigating dealing with the behaviour of an ex partner with NPD particularly around co parenting and gives tips to protect yourself from their behaviour.

Maddyone, I would also encourage her to get into therapy with a therapist that specialises in NPD if she hasn’t done so already. This will really help in supporting her when facing his narcissistic behaviour which is exhausting as you say. Sorry if you’ve already mentioned she’s doing this and I’ve missed it.

Thank you Josie for your comments. I will see if I can or find the book you mention and read it and pass it on afterwards to my daughter.
We’ve just returned from visiting our daughter and grandchildren in NZ and it’s particularly difficult for us all now. She must be feeling very alone, and I’m feeling so far away from her.
She does receive help from various organisations but you will understand that I can’t be specific on here.

Maddyone, of course, its great she’s getting support. My beloved sister was in a very similar position though I can’t really go into too much detail. The book I recommended can be found on Amazon. I wish her strength as she goes through this and recovers. She will! Although it doesn’t seem like it right now as can only imagine what he’s putting them through, he’s likely ramping up as he has lost some control in their separation. Which is good and as she gets stronger and stronger away from him, his behaviour toward her and her children will hurt less. I sympathise fully as it is so anxiety inducing watching your child in pain overseas. You are being very brave.

Another really good thing to do is save all abusive text messages or emails etc and keep a written log of what is said on the phone or in person

It's useful for 2 reasons. 1 so you don't feel you are going crazy when they try to deny things. 2 so that you have evidence if it goes to court.

Yes VS, absolutely. I think the book I reccomended details the importance of keeping a log of behaviour to protect yourself. Maddyone, she could also try Suzanna Quintana, ‘You’re still that girl; get over your abusive ex for good’ Now I haven’t read this, but have read lots of reviews. It is written by a lady who overcame her narcissistic husband’s abuse during their marriage and divorce and now runs support programmes in America for those winen going through the same. Xx

Women

I had a friend who kept a journal of her husband's conversations although I think he might have been autistic rather than somebody with a personality disorder. Apparently he found the journal and went through it with a red pen correcting her grammar and spelling mistakes! Somehow they remain married.

Thanks ladies. Logs are being kept of conversations via text, WhatsApp etc and I’ve forwarded some to my daughter from him, sent to me. He will no doubt deny assaulting my husband whilst we were there even though we took photos of the injury and informed the police. That’s always the problem, they deny things, it’s part of the abuse. The usual mode of operation of narcissistic people is verbal rather than physical of course. He was charming when I first met him, but I realise now that he was in charm the potential mother in law mode. He is so plausible when you meet him. It’s their cover, always. A friend of mine who is a councellor said he sounds like a sociopath and when I looked that up, it could well be true. I think he’s narcissistic though as well. Narcissists are created sometimes by over indulgent parenting, and conversely, by negligent parenting. This one had an over indulgent mother, because he was an only child, waited for for seven years. Thus a very intense relationship where everything he wanted was done or provided. However his father was not very interested and so quite a negligent parent, emotionally anyway. He was ashamed of them, and spoke unkindly of them. Once told he wished they were dead so he could have their money.

Once he told me……

I think it's best to ignore narcissists as much as possible. Unless they are communicating with you on topics of shared concern, ignore. Unless they are doing/saying the right thing in a situation, ignore.

If they say something that needs to be challenged, don't argue, correct. "That wasn't a nice thing to say and I hope you don't mean that". "I think we should return to this conversation when you are feeling calmer". "I understand your perception but I will talk to you when you are ready to hear mine"

Communication in type with narcissists is always preferred. When you ignore them or respond with a simple correction, they often become irate and leave more evidence of their own wrongdoing. Which can be beneficial to victims needing to prove abuse.

They absolutely hate being ignored, they need to feel like the most important person in every situation. Take their power and control away by taking away your reactions and hurt feelings.

The best way to protect ourselves is to show we are not victims and will not tolerate their behaviour