Strength after narcissistic abuse

Misinformation is concerning especially when it comes from a professional who should know that emotional dysregulation/emotional dysregulation syndrome is a component of BPD, so someone with emotional dysregulation doesn't necessarily have BPD.

Frogoet, forgive me for repeating what my daughter's psychiatrist said. Not a counsellor but the psychiatrist when she was diagnosed. He said that the name is an alternative to BPD because a lot of victims of this horrible condition, find the original title quite offensive. He called it Emotional Dysregulation Syndrome. Should I ever get to meet him again, I will certainly tell him he's wrong.

It's good to know that your D's situation is in the hands of a lawyer maddy. I hope this being the case gives you and her some peace of mind, no matter how small .

That's a great metaphor Frogoet. Not all families are demonstrative and love is conveyed in other ways, like speaking to someone several times a week.

icanhandthemback

^Some of these people have no idea, and piddling about with definitions is totally beside the point.^

Yes, I felt that when I read some of the comments.

I think partly it is so difficult to accept because they are often charming individuals to those outside of their own immediate family and others choose to judge those who 'break away'.

Absolutely. My mother knew exactly how to behave in company and only those in a more intimate relationship would see the side of her we saw as kids. Her behaviour was violent at times, highly critical all the time, love bombing at times but cold as ice and cruel when you stepped out of line, gas lighting to a huge degree and never, ever, ever wrong. Even when she did something nice it turned out that she wanted something in return and usually at far greater emotional cost than a reasonable person would give.

As you'll know, emotional dysregulation is where someone has difficulty regulating emotions, often feeling overwhelmed and finding it difficult to control their emotions. This is nothing like narcissism.

Borderline Personality Disorder is often referred to as Emotional Dysregulation. Whilst you may not mean to damage your children or other people around you, it can play a part. My daughter suffers from this and it can make her seem very manipulative. She has estranged me at the moment because I won't be manipulated by her behaviour which is very emotionally dysregulated currently. It is extremely tiring to deal with her when she is in this state but it doesn't stop me loving her or trying to do my best for her but even when she becomes calmer I know I will always be walking a tightrope with her. She's my daughter and it is very hard to accept that she may never be truly happy which is all I ever wanted for her.

If we have to get into labels and possible diagnoses we need accuracy. Borderline personality disorder and emotional dysregulation are not the same. You can have emotional dysregulation without bod although it can be a feature of Dpd.
A counsellor gave me a good metaphor
We can see what we think are stars in the sky but they are in fact clusters of stars.
Personality traits are clusters, not any one fixed thing,
Using these labels in our family relationships can be liberating when they help us come to terms with poor relationships but they can only ever be a personal view , from one side, unless in a family counselling situation.
We all have aspects including manipulation, narcissism and emotional dysregulation unless saints. It’s when it becomes a problem behaviour for the individual or their family that I can understand sometimes the relationship is no longer viable.
But, as someone who’d love to have been a more thoughtful daughter( I loved her and spoke to her several times a week.) I wish I had just held her Close more as she got older. But we’d never really been like that.
It would have been good for her and me.

It is hard VS.
Thank you to VS,Smileless and icanhandthemback. It is a very difficult situation for all concerned. Whilst we were out there this time we tried to help in every way possible. My husband attended a meeting at the lawyer’s with her so it is in the hands of a lawyer. The back story is huge and much of it I cannot put on a public forum, but I appreciate concern from Gransnetters.
My own mother displayed some narcissistic traits, although nothing as bad as some on here. Much of her behaviour echoed what people have written that their mothers did. My father was lovely. Nonetheless I aleays loved my mother, despite some of her behaviours, which were at the most extreme early in my marriage. I think she felt out of control because both her daughters had grown up and married. Her unkind behaviour was covert, she didn’t allow others to see it. She picked on me quite a lot, but I don’t think there was a particular golden child because she made my sister out to be wonderful to me, but still picked on her, and apparently she made myself out to be wonderful to my sister, but actually picked on me. Despite her behaviour I loved her, and during her last years her behaviour was modified, although she was very entitled. I did everything I could for her and when she died I felt I’d done the right thing. However I’m not suggesting everyone do that, I think you have to balance what is right for you and how you feel most comfortable. I do think that the way these mothers make other people out to be wonderful is terribly hurtful. My mother did that a lot. My cousins, her friend’s children, they were all clever, well off, talented and so on. That she didn’t say anything about how well her own grandchildren had done hurt me. I wouldn’t have minded if she said nothing about other people, but she did it deliberately to cause me pain. Not that I minded my cousins doing well, but the way it was said…….
I think she had a difficult childhood. I didn’t, I had a fairly normal childhood, although I had to do as I was told, she was quite controlling. It started as I became more independent, choosing friends of my own and boyfriends. I suppose she felt threatened, that she would lose us. And she did lose my sister who estranged mum for seven years. But my sister has had massive mental health issues all her life, and these continue to today and due her difficult behaviour I have little to do with her now.

I am so sorry, I know this feeling. It is horrific. My children have no family on my mother's side.

A loving parent would want to ensure as many positive people around their child and especially their grandchild as possible.

I actually know all the lies told about me because I still have contact with a family member and it is a lot. I chose not to fight for those relationships the end because I couldn't show them my real mother without hurting them

It's hard

Hello. I've been following along with all the posts from different perspectives and am proud of everyone who has survived. My own story atm is one of my "narcissistic " mother having managed to manipulate my nan and aunties and uncles to not be a part of mine and my young children's lives. I feel robbed of my "village" that I hear other mums with little ones talk about. However, having been the scapegoat and emotionally and physically abused since childhood by her, I feel this sad extra loss of my extended family is a small price to pay for my mental health and freedom from her toxic and insidious persona being a part of mine and my children's lives. I count myself lucky to have estranged sooner rather than later. And while I feel the injustice that my lovely extended family are being coercively controlled by her so as to deprive my children of their great nana and aunties and uncles, I also feel privileged and proud with the freedom from her it has given.
Sending strength to thoose that need it and compassion to thoose that also walk this path

I've just read this quote from Emile Zola

"We are like books. Most people only see our cover, the minority read only the introduction, many people believe the critics. Few will know our content".

I've read your daughters situation before maddyone, so awful

Has she managed to put together a support system over there at least? Made some friends?

Maddyone, it must be awful for all of you. Has she taken legal advice?
I had a cousin who married an American who was fun loving with the same values as her when they had their 5 children. Then he found religion and became very much the patriarch who would not allow her or the children to wear trouser, cut their hair, go out alone, etc, etc. They all came over on holiday and she refused to go back. The custody hearing was in the UK so they took the children's views into account so they were able to stay here. However, another friend who had virtually the same circumstances couldn't get here and the US courts would not allow the children to come back here.

That is an example of the ultimate isolation and control of a victim maddy. It must have broken your heart to come home and leave them behind.

I know I keep on saying I'm so sorry, but I just can't think of anything else too say.

Abusers, especially in adult relationships, always isolate their victims from anyone they think may have a degree of influence

Oh yes. It took him eleven years of marriage, during which he tried to persuade her to emigrate to Canada or Australia, or go to live in Scotland or Cornwall, because he said, she’d be better off without us, her parents and brothers, and finally he wore her down during Covid, by saying life would be better in New Zealand, away from us and away from Covid, and finally she capitulated. The marriage collapsed within the first year there, because of his narcissistic traits, because she could no longer cope without the care of her supportive family. Now she cannot return to live in the UK because he refuses to allow her to bring the children home, even though they say all the time they want to come back to England ‘where my family live.’

It's not about forgiveness - it's about the past not poisoning the here and now yes, that's it exactly DL.

Smileless2012

I think you can be happy without the act of forgiveness DL but maybe you could be happier with it.

There’s a lot of life I don’t “forgive”, but I realised, decades ago, that resentment would only harm me - not those that had caused my resentment. They don’t care.

It’s a bit like my ex and me - he bought me low at times, hence I ended our marriage. I bought him low at times, without a doubt.

Nowadays, after 20+ years apart, we just shrug, smile, accept what it was and what it is - and get on as friends.

It’s not about forgiveness - it’s about the past not poisoning the here and now I suppose.

I don’t know. 🙂

I think you can be happy without the act of forgiveness DL but maybe you could be happier with it.

It's ok not to be happy too, it's ok to be just getting by, it's ok to cry, it's ok to have bad days

It's ok to not want to seek any kind of revenge and just live your own life without these people... Your feelings are none of their business

Philippa111

TerriT

I think it is so easy for those who have no idea of the damage that children suffer from abusive parents to bang on about forgiveness. I don’t want to forgive my parents and there is no reason why I should. Parents owe their children love and protection and if they fail for whatever reason to give their children that then they have no right to forgiveness. Simple.

Forgiveness is not for the benefit of the person who needs forgiving. It is a gift to oneself as it softens the heart and allows the grieving process. Carrying resentment is very bad for ones health. I know as I’ve been through this process. Today I am absolutely free from the person who harmed me.

Yes, as they say….the best revenge on anyone that’s caused you harm is to be happy.🙂

I agree VS so it's a good thing there isn't any unhealthy behaviour here that could prevent this from being a safe space for victims.

Phillipa I really think people have a lot of different ideas about what forgiveness is...

And maybe different types work for different people?

For me I found forgiving myself for exposing myself and my children to her for so long to be what I needed

I don't think unhealthy behaviour is really welcomed anywhere and maintaining a safe space for abuse victims is something everyone can work towards

TerriT

I think it is so easy for those who have no idea of the damage that children suffer from abusive parents to bang on about forgiveness. I don’t want to forgive my parents and there is no reason why I should. Parents owe their children love and protection and if they fail for whatever reason to give their children that then they have no right to forgiveness. Simple.

Forgiveness is not for the benefit of the person who needs forgiving. It is a gift to oneself as it softens the heart and allows the grieving process. Carrying resentment is very bad for ones health. I know as I’ve been through this process. Today I am absolutely free from the person who harmed me.

I suppose it depends what you mean VS. I don't see anyone inserting themselves into this discussion, that suggests that they and their contributions are not welcome here.

That's a lovely saying, so true

My Dad says, "if you don't know where you have been, you won't know where you are going"

I've quoted this before on GN but it's so meaningful-
Life can only be understood looking back but must be lived forwards....
Hope everyone here is ok and able to live a life that brings them peace and contentment. Hugs x

Conversely I actually don't think I can understand things that I haven't been through... I can sympathise certainly but not understand

For example, I cannot truly understand how it feels to have a child estrange me... I can listen and be supportive. I can advise how that situation may be resolved by offering a different perspective but I can't understand how it "feels" and I have no desire to insert myself into any conversation thinking that way, it would not be healthy