Strength after narcissistic abuse

I meant the individual, I understand people use personnas, but I knew as a child that a close person was cruel but other people didn't sense it at that time.

Bridie22

We can surely see that somebody is nasty, has a cruel streak... our human instinct usually picks this up.

You obviously haven't had dealings with a narc.
If you are the child of a narc, you are quite used to their behaviour because they are the only way you have ever known. You lack self esteem because of the way they have treated you so you think it must be your fault. In my case, that affected all my relationships from a young age because I didn't know what a normal relationship was. I was also frightened of my Mum. She had ruled my life with violence, moods that swung between me being a wonderful daughter to out of the blue me being the worst daughter anybody could ever had. It was just so confusing. Oh and the constant message that there was something very wrong with a person who abandoned their mother who should be the most important person in your life. This was so imprinted on to me that it took me years and a very kind, thoughtful man to help me see that my Mum's behaviour was toxic.
Narcs don't start off being cruel if they are love relationships. As new boyfriends, they are often charming and make you feel so loved because there is no one else in the world they'd rather been with. You look at that as being the pattern of your relationship so when things start to change, you are perhaps more forgiving than you might normally be. Their digs are often subtle to start with too. Just enough to make you start to doubt yourself. If you have also had a parent with similar traits, you are so used to this behaviour it is almost normal. You are used to being unhappy, it's just the way things are.
I can only see this now as I have distanced myself from such behaviour. I am not a stupid person, just someone who didn't know there was a different way to have a relationship with someone.

Yes I agree Gwylt that sometimes on estrangement threads narcissism is glossed over.

It isn't always immediately obvious Bridie especially if your relationship with a narcissist is because for example, they're in a relationship with your AC.

It's over a period of time that you see how your AC has changed and how your relationship with them is changing and by the time you're aware of what's actually going on, it's often too late.

You and others in their lives have been estranged so that there's no one close enough to them who may be able to get them to see they're in a toxic, manipulative and controlling relationship. Abusers, especially in adult relationships, always isolate their victims from anyone they think may have a degree of influence.

Not everyone encounters a narcissist in childhood icanhandthemback because their parent(s) is/are a narcissist. Having never encountered one before makes you just as vulnerable as someone whose parent(s) are, and have been raised to believe that abusive behaviour is normal.

When you've been raised in a loving and caring family, why would you think that the person you enter into an adult relationship with, would treat you any differently?

Also Bridie your AC's partner will appear to be very charming, loving, kind and considerate not just to your AC, but to you too.

The main characteristic of abuse is that it is hidden. It's hidden because it's not morally or legally acceptable

I am sure most abusers could come here and look like a perfectly nice and decent human... Potentially a delicate and easily offended human who thinks they are right in all things lol but otherwise perfectly nice

And then go off and treat their selected scapegoat in ways that would make us horrified

Yes abuse is hidden. It's hidden by the parent who abuses their child and hidden by the adult who abuses their partner, although I do think that the latter can often be more easily identified, eventually.

Most abusers in all walks of life will come across as a perfectly nice and decent person to those they're not abusing. That's how they're able to do what they do for as long as they do it.

Smileless. I didn't suggest that everybody who encounters a narcissist has had a Narc Parent. I was merely giving some suggestions as to why people might not recognise their "cruel streak."

Yes I realise that icanhandthemback. I was also suggesting an alternative as to why someone might not be able to recognise "their cruel streak".

Yes, I can see that, I missed a lot of red flags with people...

I only really realised some behaviours were not ok when I had my own children but I was so far under her abuse that I just thought I deserved it and so it was "normal" for me

It wasn't until I got help that I realised no one deserves abuse

No , reading some of these threads I don't think that I've thankfully not had dealings with a diagnosed narcasist.

Be grateful for that, be very grateful lol

I'm not sure that anyone's had dealings with a narcissist whose been professionally diagnosed as one Bridie because that would necessitate the narcissist recognising they have a problem, which is seems to be rather rare.

I just feel the term is used so readily these days to label a person who is a cruel, mean or just downright nasty.
We should be careful labelling people, it sticks.

I totally agree Bridie. Not all people who can be "cruel, mean or just downright nasty" are necessarily narcissistic.

If we look at a narcissists characteristics we can get an insight into how they function

No self identity they don't have their own identity so they look to others to provide that for them. Who they are is solely tied up in others perceptions of them so they often work hard to be perceived favourably with most people

Because they don't understand that others do have a self identity, they believe what they think about you to be the only truth and it is up to them to decide who you are. This is how they control others.

No empathy They do not have any real understanding of others feelings and needs, only understanding of how it reflects on them. This means they choose their friendships solely by people's responses to them. They have a great need to be admired and know how to manufacture empathy for the feeling they get when others respond positively to them.

Narcissists have no idea they are narcissists, they just feel they are the most important person in the room and they seek to get their needs met first and foremost.

They know their behaviour is sometimes wrong because they hide it and lie about it to others but they would never categorise themselves as abusive. They work very hard to justify their behaviour. It sometimes depends on the audience and they will sometimes share quite outrageous stories of themselves "winning" in a particular situation, especially amongst others who think the same way. They quickly learn who will support their justifications and who won't.

They often pick victims that they are struggling to control, people who aren't necessarily happy to reflect back on them what they want to hear about themselves. And once they start justifying this bad treatment it becomes a never ending cycle of their need to justify their behaviour and punish you for standing up to it. And they enjoy it, it becomes a game to them.. a game they must win which ultimately costs them relationships.

I'm short, they enjoy having a scapegoat as an outlet for their negative feelings because it is as basic as bullying. Making you small makes them feel big. Power, control, admiration... They learned how to get them and they don't feel bad about it

Going by the posts here I'd say the vast majority of those posting have read about about and researched the characteristics of a narcissist, myself included.

Bridie22

We can surely see that somebody is nasty, has a cruel streak... our human instinct usually picks this up.

When you have been brought up by a narc it’s very hard to trust your feelings as they have always been invalidated.
It’s only in the past few years I have been able to trust my instincts and act on them.

As a little girl I had an “uncle” he was a family friend and always wanted to sit me on his knee and tickle me.
I hated it and would cry, I was beaten for “ making a show of myself”
I was also made to play with the daughter of a family friend, she was a nasty witch and would torture me, when I complained to my mother again I got a beating as X was a lovely girl with beautiful manners and a pony!

My mother asked me when I was 50 if my father had sexually abused me as well as physically, the answer was thankfully no!
She responded with oh I often thought it was both!

I could go on and on.

I know that unless you have dealt with a narc my stories are unbelievable.

No, they're not unbelievable Sago

So sorry Sago, its so heartbreaking reading the way you were treated.

Thank you VS for sharing that info as I feel it will could be useful for anyone here. Not enough people really know what makes someone a narc even if they think they do.

Sago, thank you for sharing. I understand why you think others might not believe your experiences. That's a very isolating part of it. Rest assured it is believable to those with experience.

The worst part to me about a narc or narc leaning person is how they hide it. Like when they lean so much into pretending to be a victim that they are claiming to understand our pain. They blend right in sometimes and that's insidious.

I do think I'm better at spotting it than I used to be. My mom fooled me for a long time but now I can see the sneaky ones from a mile away.

User138562

Thank you VS for sharing that info as I feel it will could be useful for anyone here. Not enough people really know what makes someone a narc even if they think they do.

Sago, thank you for sharing. I understand why you think others might not believe your experiences. That's a very isolating part of it. Rest assured it is believable to those with experience.

The worst part to me about a narc or narc leaning person is how they hide it. Like when they lean so much into pretending to be a victim that they are claiming to understand our pain. They blend right in sometimes and that's insidious.

I do think I'm better at spotting it than I used to be. My mom fooled me for a long time but now I can see the sneaky ones from a mile away.

Yes I have a radar too, I would love to confront a narc with all the evidence but of course they would flatly deny it!
I do know someone who was definitely on the spectrum, she would have the fiercest rages ever, she is highly intelligent and very charming , I think she had a reawakening after 3 broken marriages and a few life changing events.
Her behaviour is now much better.
So I do believe narcs can change but it’s very rare.

sago. I'm not sure how we survive it but somehow we do.

I think everything we have that they don't, that made them choose us as victims, is why we ultimately survived them...

They lost

Good point VS. I have a lot of love in my life now. There are bad days of course but I'm happy. The more distance I have from the abuse the better I feel. If that's not the biggest sign that estrangement was the right move, I don't know what is.

You don't have to be a victim to understand someone else's pain although a shared experience can be invaluable. Thankfully there will always be people who are able to empathise and offer their kindness and support.