The next thread for friendship, advice and support if estrangement has affected your life

@madgran and @Allsorts I know I haven’t lost my son yet thank you for reminding me actually. I’m thinking the worst , as usual. I’m giving him space and I will definitely keep conversation light when I do talk with him . It’s the only way .
@Yogin actually he blocked me a while back , I just don’t think I’ve talked about it . Actually I feel quite ashamed that my son should feel this is necessary- if we’d had a proper conversation about this then we could have agreed days when I’d ring . As things stand , I can’t call at all. Re the isolation of the flat - it’s definitely bothering me because I can’t guarantee that my driving skills will be good enough. If I decide to settle there I think I’ll need to get my head around the isolation. Anything else will be a bonus but I can’t rely on it . @DiamondLily the house , whilst having the downsides you’ve mentioned, is a lot more central. Of course the timing is poor - if it had already been relet straight away then I wouldn’t be able to consider it . It’s just that because it’s available and the LL has approved me , I am leaning towards this . Why is life so complicated hey ? xxx

Ladysuisei

@madgran well I will try not to think of the flat as being temporary. The difficulty is that despite many downsides, I really want the comfort of the house . Also not being isolated appeals to me more than moving to a new area . I’m so indecisive aren’t I ? I know that my DP is never far away in my thoughts but for some reason I now have a yearning to be back where I last saw him leave . I’m possibly torturing myself here - maybe I should move to the flat , settle down and be done with it xxx

It's hard Lady I do agree with others re not living next to an empty house etc.

Maybe settling in the flat would be good as a definite new stage ofvyiyr life. You bring your memories with you. Being back where your partner was just isn't going to bring him back I know you know that but sometimes our hearts rule our heads. I remember returning a few years ago to where I spent my earliest years with my parents (in the tropics and very remote) and although I knew they wouldn't be there it didn't stop me feeling a sort of strange excitement that I was going to see them again! Our enotions/heads/hearts vant always ve logical eh!!

I dont think you are indecisive per se, just making hard choices in a maelstrom of upset and emotion. Maybe it would help to write down the pros and cons for the house and for the flat and then compare. Think beyond the emotional stuff to the practical things too. Have you been able to maybe find out what is going on around the flat that might interest you..hroups; hobbies whatever..even if not straight away but maybe in the future. Things that help you build a new life in your new reality. [💐

Hope everyone’s having a good day.

I had to laugh earlier, as I decided to order a couple of small gifts for my first great grandchild.

As many know on here, this has been absolute chaos with Miss D from day one. It’s rattling through the Family Court, but a final ruling won’t be made until mid-May. The judge favours us all being involved, but the process has to run its course. The only thing all sides agree on is that Miss D cannot have unsupervised access to the child.

This child is a year old soon - so a birthday.

The problem I had is that I don’t know whether her carer (the adoptive mother of Miss D) who has care and control, would allow presents. She’s a Jeehovahs Witness and I’m not sure over what they celebrate.

But, in order to support DD, my ex and I felt we needed to buy something. So, I bought a singing nursery rhyme book and some squeaking egg thing. They didn’t cost a lot (£30) in case the carer just dumped them.

My poor Argos man is used to me ordering normal stuff - making his way to my door with a singing book and squeaking eggs (both obviously jolted when he took them from his van), is not not his idea of a laugh…lol

Ah well, I’ve done my best. 😉

That made me laugh DL

DiamondLily when my husband worked at one place one of his colleagues was a Jehovah's witness and they didn't celebrate birthdays or Christmas. My husband was a devil and when this man had a son he always gave him a card and present for the childs birthday and Christmas. When he said they don't do that my husband made him feel guilty and the little boy had a birthday and Christmas present every year until the man left after 10 years working there.

I don't know if they have relaxed the rules now. It seems strange to me that a Christian religion didn't celebrate the birth of a child or Christmas. I don't know if they celebrate Easter.

Mr. S.'s mum's sister and her family are Jehovah's witnesses, she was lovely and we always sent a card at Christmas, sending our love and best wishes but it was never a Christmas card.

Maybe you could ask your GDs' carer if any birthday gifts will be passed on to her DL, if not the family could jointly put money aside for her.

Awake early again after a restless night trying to work out what has gone wrong with the relationship with my eldest daughter.
The last few years have been stressful for her. She is a single parent,her ex husband left her when the children were 2 and a young baby as he didn't cope with family life. She had a breakdown and I spent a lot of time looking after the children. Life improved for her and she managed to return to teaching. She has lots of friends and trips away with the kids. During the pandemic I was ill and she turned on me upsetting me and also her sister who has cut all contact with her.Since then our relationship has been difficult. I still have days out with them but often there is some drama in her life which affects all of us. She has had several outbursts at me basically blaming me for any problems she now has. I have tried to help both emotionally and financially but it is never enough.
All of this has had a bad effect both mentally and physically on my health. I am treading on eggshells when we meet up and between meets I am constantly worried that she won't contact me and that she has cut me out of their lives. I suffer from an auto immune disease which flares up under stress and have been in hospital several times over last 3 years. Her response when I have been ill is being told not to play the pity card and to consider sheltered accommodation. I am 68.
I miss the closeness I once had with her and the grandchildren, it is a living grief.

Jaffacake glad to see you found this thread . Estrangement whether permanent or pending is a living grief. And does have a knock effect on your health especially if you already have a condition. Estrangement effects you physically and mentally. And unfortunately your story is all to familiar. We live in a throw away society and that includes parents. Thanks to Smiles ,Yogin and other long timers here this thread has been going 11 years. Estrangement is no longer taboo and is out of the shadows but it's always the parents who get blamed. When it's our adult children and adult grandchildren who decide we are disposable.

I am sorry this is happening to you. Many have described walking on egg shells I never did that. But it's no way to live. From what you say you need to stop helping emotionally and financially. As she is using you and blaming you for everything. Because she is a coward and won't take responsibility for her own actions. I know that sounds harsh . But I realised my son was cruel and a coward as he let me know via email and follow up letter I had been dumped as his mom . Last time I saw and spoke to him was 30th April 2020 my birthday had a lovely time but Covid rules meant we couldn't touch and sat apart . 4 days later a text saying he had sent me an email and not to contact him he sent one to his sister as well. But she didn't care as things had been wrong with them for years. My son has cut all our side of the family out of his life.

I can understand your daughter cutting her sister out of her life. Do you have a good relationship with her?

I am lucky I have a wonderful daughter,son in law and 2 grandson's who love me and get to see often.

I have 3 grandson's with my son and daughter in law I only know the eldest 2 last time I saw them they where 4&2. I don't even know there brothers name or date of birth. They are now 7,5&3. But last year I decided I am done . Since 2020 I have text him 3 times the last time was before Christmas I had decided if I got silence or abuse never to contact him again. I had abuse. So I am done with him.

I still love him but the loving caring son I had for 32 years not who he is now. I don't love my daughter in law after I found out after she trolled me on a GN thread in June 2020 and found out she had been writing about me on Reddit for over a year before I moved closer to live by them all. But what killed the love was she wrote FIL died to get away from MIL. My husband died in agony unable to breath through cancer at 47. My daughter lives 10 mins away my son 40 mins.

What your daughter said to you in your last paragraph is truly horrible. It's a horrible fact we have to protect ourselves from our children. And as hard as it is for your own mental and physical health you need to decide are you going to take anymore crap from her ? You need to put yourself first and from what you wrote you need to let her go. I imagine your other daughter has already told you to do that.

No parent expects their children to turn on them . But it's happening all the more .

I don't expect to ever see or hear from my son again but may be my grandsons may find me when they are older.

Here we understand what you are going through so never feel alone . There have been a few nasty posters on here recently but glad to see they have gone . Smiles ,Yogin and Allsorts are long timers so they know what it's like. So do the rest of us. This is a safe place you are not alone .

Sorry to hear your problems with your DD Jaffacake

Have a nice day everyone xx

Smileless2012

Mr. S.'s mum's sister and her family are Jehovah's witnesses, she was lovely and we always sent a card at Christmas, sending our love and best wishes but it was never a Christmas card.

Maybe you could ask your GDs' carer if any birthday gifts will be passed on to her DL, if not the family could jointly put money aside for her.

Ideally, we would. But, this woman doesn’t want GS, or any of our family to have much contact.

It’s rumbling through the family court, but every time we think we’ve reached some sort of solution, another spoke gets rammed in the wheel.🙄. She agrees to things to keep the court quiet, and then changes her mind.

I think, to be honest, that she’s middle aged, never had a relationship, or a child, and only ever adopted Miss D (which turned out well…not.)

She seems to see herself as the true mother, the only one the child needs, her last chance at motherhood, and it’s proving difficult.

The judge has said she’s going to rule on the lot of it in May, so hopefully, it’ll be sorted then.🙄

Hello Jaffacake. Walking on eggshells was thankfully something we were spared, but I know from what others have and do experience, it's both emotionally and physically exhausting.

From what you've said, despite the problems she's encountered, her life has greatly improved. She's working again and has a good social life with friends which includes trips away with her children, not something that all couples with young children can manage.

You were there for her emotionally and financially when she needed your support, so perhaps now is the time to take a step back.

She's and adult and a mother so needs to take responsibility for her own life which includes whatever may be 'wrong' at the moment. Even if she hasn't actually threatened you with estrangement, there's clearly something in her treatment of you making you fear this may happen, so you need to think about whether or not you want too, and are able to continue with things the way they are.

Putting some boundaries in place will hopefully enable you to control her behaviour toward you. You could for example, remind her that you have been there to support her but that doesn't mean you can continue to do so financially, indefinitely.

You will always support her emotionally but that doesn't mean you will allow her to blame you for whatever is 'wrong' with her life when it is not your responsibility.

Think about being completely honest by telling her that you're not suggesting she realises this, but you are constantly worried that she'll stop contacting you and cut you out of her's and your GC's lives and this is affecting your health.

When you have days out, is it possible to ensure that you can make sure that you can both get home without relying on the other? This would enable you to leave if things get heated, saying along the lines of 'I think it's better if I go now'.

I do understand your fear because we are at the mercy of our AC's decisions aren't we, something we have no control over. We can't control their behaviour, only how we respond to it and how much we are prepared to tolerate .

Sending you (((hugs))) DL for this most difficult of days, your first wedding anniversary since losing your DH.

Hope your 'phone call goes OK with your son Ladysu.

Have a good day everyone if you can but if it isn't going well, we're all here to listen.

We were posting at the same time DL. Oh dear, as if dealing with Miss D isn't bad enough. Fingers crossed for the hearing in May.

Your GS is the child's father and clearly wants to be involved in her life as does his family, so when the ruling's made she'll just have to 'suck it up' wont she. Surely her blood family are the ones who should be taking care of her if Miss D is unsuitable, not Miss D's adoptive mother.

Smileless2012

We were posting at the same time DL. Oh dear, as if dealing with Miss D isn't bad enough. Fingers crossed for the hearing in May.

Your GS is the child's father and clearly wants to be involved in her life as does his family, so when the ruling's made she'll just have to 'suck it up' wont she. Surely her blood family are the ones who should be taking care of her if Miss D is unsuitable, not Miss D's adoptive mother.

Yes. I’m standing back a bit with it all. Miss D was and is exhausting enough without her adoptive mother joining in.🙄

Social workers etc do support us, but the law moves slowly.

Have to wait and see. 🙂

Jaffa I feel for you. Your daughter’s behaviour is bullying. She trades on the fact that you love her and your grandchildren but she has no thought for your well being. You simply have to put yourself first because you must care about your well being. Nothing you say or do will alter things. My daughter whom I was close to started to treat me differently, cancelling arrangements, telling me I should dye my hair and wear different clothes, nothing I did was enough. I wasn’t good enough for her and the high life she has, I went into hospital and was quite ill, they rang her, her reply I’m too busy she’s capable of looking after herself, the nurse felt sorry for me and said from now on look after yourself she’s a poor excuse for a daughter. It was me that felt ashamed as I remembered when we were close and got on. I didn’t tell friends or neighbours, I decided to wait until she contacted me and she did eventually but was unkind and put me down, I severed contact and will never go back, I wouldn't treat anyone as I’ve been treated, now everyone knows. I don’t talk about her. I was foolish for a long time, hoping, I thought I was to blame, but if course I wasn’t, she wanted me out of her life and now she has. Her father left us and we never knew where he had gone? I’m glad as I had a rough seven years working hard, then met the love of my life and he loved me and the children. He died too young but I am glad for what I had. It’s a bit lonely now but I have lively grandchildren , friends and a nice home and my health is ok. I value what I have, my friends are kind people and we have good times. Not the life I imagined but it surprises us. We have one life dint let her take your future away.

Thank you all for your kind replies. It is sad to find solace in your own family stories but it really helps to break the shame and taboo of estrangement by adult children. To know that I am not alone helps me put the situation into perspective. I supported her throughout her life and now although I love her I must step back. She will with her abuse kill me literally as my mast cell disease reacts badly to stress and increases my incidences to anaphylaxis. My mental health is so poor that I have had suicidal thoughts over the past month.
Today I met up with my younger daughter at a town halfway between our home towns. We had lunch,tea,and just talked not about her sister but about all the positives in our lives. I felt so much better for seeing her and could feel her love for me.
I am stepping back from my eldest. I am not what she needs at this time in her life and I don't need her ongoing abuse.

That sounds a sensible way to be. You can’t allow your health to be affected by her.

Perhaps if you back off, she’ll think about what she’s doing.💐

Concentrate on your younger daughter.

Jafa I am stepping back from my eldest. I am not what she needs at this time in her life and I don't need her ongoing abuse

This seems wise. 💐

Allsorts you wrote with such passion and things I haven't seen you write before. It must have been hard to write but hopefully it's helped you and all on this thread. It was from the heart. 🤗💐.

Jaffacake glad you don't feel alone and had a good time with your younger daughter. And glad you are stepping back from you eldest daughter. Your physical and mental health must come first and you have people who love and care for you.

Life is to short for what if's and none of us know how long we have on this earth so it's important we live it to the full and not let our adult children try to ruin that for us.

They think they are perfect but one day the ivory tower they live in will crash around their ears. And if their children treat them like they have treated us then then so be it . Karma is a bitch.

Hi there all - firstly I want to say hi to Jaffacake and I’m sorry you find yourself in this horrible predicament. My son has been particularly abusive towards me for a few months now , but I’ve been following advice from everyone really, but a specific calm technique shown to be by @ Madgran . Well it’s paying off . I have taken a step back and using the technique has really helped . I’ve seen my son this morning and not a single contentious subject was mentioned 🤗
Thank you for all your advice . @Smiles even the phone call was good this week- possibly because I was the one who said oh I gotta go , bye see you tomorrow! That changed the dynamic somewhat. He arrived in a good mood this morning. I didn’t bother speaking about the child - at this point in time it’s not relevant. The baby is not due for 3 or 4 weeks so a lot can happen. My sense of desperation has gone away and I’m taking a laid back approach to whether or not I’ll get contact. In fact by showing no interest either way might end up doing me a favour .
@Jaffacake , I suffer from BPD which has negatively affected my relationship with my son I now realise. Particularly since my partner died suddenly 13 months ago . I feel physically and mentally very unwell today , but I didn’t show this side of myself to my son . He doesn’t know how much I suffer . I did confess to someone on here that I had suicidal thoughts- I have pulled myself out of this way of thinking. Suicide is a permanent solution to a permanent problem and not many “ problems “ are totally insurmountable. I feel a sense of inner strength despite feeling unwell . I’m sure that by reading our stories you will gain your own inner strength- I hope so .
@DiamondLily , wanted to wish you love and peace this weekend as I know you will be having a difficult time . Take care .

@whiff you’re right when you say life’s too short to allow our adult children to ruin things and yes , karma is definitely a bitch .
I see a shift in my son’s attitude towards me now I’m losing interest in him . It’s quite interesting.

@Allsorts I wanted to say that I’ve never seen this side to you before- your resilience is amazing. I have learned on here that we should not feel guilty when our AC treat us badly . It’s a reflection on them not us . Nobody on this thread has done anything to warrant being treated in this way - we have only tried to be good parents to unfortunately very selfish individuals. We wouldn’t take abuse from a partner so why should we take it from a child , is baffling. Since I’ve taken a step back from my son I still see him but the abuse has stopped. I don’t think he respects me as such but he respects the status of “ mother “ which is a bit of an improvement.

That's really great Ladysu I'm so pleased . You've done brilliantly this weekend especially as you didn't feel well today.

Well done.

@Smiles thank you - I’m learning to separate myself slightly I think . It’s probably a way to cope . I do notice that the less interested I appear to be , the better AS responds to me though x

Yesterday was difficult. I decided to try and ignore the date with distraction. But, a lot of people knew the date and decided to message/phone/text….asrgh!

My DS (in America) sent me some flowers, and DD/SIL sent me a card.

All very sweet, but every time I forgot, I was reminded.😉

Anyway, today went over to DD and SILs for dinner - they have been low with all the stress, but we did manage to have some laughs about years ago stuff.🥂

So, all in all, I staggered through it, and tomorrow is another week.👍