Covert Narcissist Daughter

Hello Lakey. You did nothing wrong by asking for a divorce, even if your husband at the time hadn't been involved with another woman that he wanted to marry.

When dealing with narcissists, you're always in the wrong because their skewed version of themselves means that they never can be.

I'm so sorry that you haven't had contact with your D for sometime and it's understandable that you are concerned about how this may affect your GC. A lot will depend in their ages and what they're being told in regard to not seeing/talking to you.

You say that your son has seen through his father's and his father's wife's behaviour so there maybe a good chance that eventually your D will too.

I hope that eventually she'll do so

I have lost and been estranged from members of my family for sometime (8 years in total) due to my ex husband of 42 years marrying and I suspect and becoming a narcissist himself.
These incidents have been carried out underhanded, sly and through lying .
I lost my son through these evil pair for 6 years.
My sister then distanced herself.
I was not included in any family events which has caused estrangement with my niece, who I was close to.
Ex husband and wife tripped themselves up , as I believe narcissistic people do in the end. This has over a few years brought my son back to me at the cost of them now heavily influencing my daughter. I have not had contact with her for some months and worry it will affect my grandchildren.
I have had sleepless nights for years and the affect on my health has been great.
Does anyone have experience of narcissism as its only just become evident that this is what has been happening over the years.
I never really knew what I had done wrong apart from ask for a divorce which my husband wanted so he could marry this woman for money.

It's hard to walk away. I haven't. Im still being abused by AC and I was putting up with the breadcrumbing n the hopes that we would see AC and GC.

I think I need to give up hope of a normal loving relationship with AC and GC and end the contact in which Ac seeks attention from me to bolster their ego. AC does not ask how I am, consider my feelings or care in any way but uses every conversation to tell me Im terrible and they're amazing.

AC does not update me about GC and has only let me videocall with GC when AC was too lazy to amuse them. AC does not let me see GC. It's been a few years and contact was stopped on their birthday, which felt very cruel.

I feel like I exist to tell AC they're great and accomplished, but in return I get told Im terrible. They have a similarly bad relationship with their other parent, too and we are black listed because we divorced when AC was a toddler. Conveniently it isn't anything we can do anything about. Both happily married to other people for decades! Ridiculous situation!

Sorry for anyone getting emotional abused by AC.

I've been accepting breadcrumbs for so long. It's time to stop. We have so much love to give. We will never get the chance to be GP. I often wonder about fostering but DH doesn't agree.

Hellebores

Violet Sky your comments re narcissistic behaviour and gaslighting came at just the right time for me. My eldest DD is an expert at gaslighting.
Having not seen her or my 2 teenage grandchildren for 2 years I spent a lovely 2 weeks with them recently - first looking after the youngest then all 4 of us together. It was a joy getting to know my grandchildren again, having a laugh, seeing their sporting achievements.
It didn't last. Once again I'm the baddie. I've put a copy of your words on my desktop to remind me it isn't my fault.
I have another daughter who is the complete opposite.
I have good friends and family.
I've had enough.
I'm taking your advice even though it breaks my heart.
I've walked away.

I'm sorry it didn't go well

It's easy with a family member at times to try to look at why they behave the way they do and what led up to it

But at the end of the day, if someone is abusing you, the outcome is the same and you have to protect yourself

That's what makes this forum and for me the support thread so invaluable Babs.

When I first came across the original thread more than 11 years ago which was in the AIBU forum, I was so relieved to know that we weren't the only ones. It really does help to know you're not alone and to be able to share with other EP's and have their support and understanding.

@smileless
Have communicated with other estranged parents on forums and met some in person. Believe me when we heard their stories we considered ourselves lucky.
It is, however, the least spoken about topic with little support for those affected, others can be very judgemental, for the adult child who decides to become estranged from problematic parents there is lots of support and sympathy out there. So glad there is this forum on here, in the beginning many parents feel they are alone with this.

After more than 11 years here on GN predominantly on the estrangement forum Babs it still shocks me how some AC treat their parents .

This sounds like my adult daughter, we are now estranged and have been for many years. She manipulated and abused us too.
When my aunt died she left me and my sister some money, we said we would divide it between our four daughters but she immediately concocted a story about how my aunt had sworn she would leave her more money, I knew this was a lie because my aunt had always been fair to a fault. When she didn’t get more she went on social media accusing us of all kinds of things and using highly colourful language as well. She also told some friends of ours we hadn’t seen for a couple of years that she bumped into one day that we had passed away, they were very upset and so shocked when we ourselves saw them not long after that.
If she knew something would hurt us she would do it, often saying our grandchildren were out for the day with their fun grandparents when we turned up for an arranged visit.
In the end we had to think of our own well-being, I had a breakdown and have been on meds for years. Our 3 other daughters were the ones to actually suggest an estrangement which was so hard because we have missed our grandchildren so much.
Think of your own well-being first. And I hope you can come to some sort of arrangement to see your grandson for us it was impossible.

Only just seen your last post PeaceLily. It isn't easy seeing what's really going on when the issue is with our AC and even harder to believe what we are seeing.

I hope you're beginning to make those choices that are better for you and continue to take care of yourself.

As much as you enjoyed your recent two weeks with your D and GC Hellebores after two years of no contact, it was cruel of her to allow you that time, just to once again make you the badie. Cruel to you and your GC.

Walking away is all you can do so she can't do this to you and your GC again .

Violet Sky your comments re narcissistic behaviour and gaslighting came at just the right time for me. My eldest DD is an expert at gaslighting.
Having not seen her or my 2 teenage grandchildren for 2 years I spent a lovely 2 weeks with them recently - first looking after the youngest then all 4 of us together. It was a joy getting to know my grandchildren again, having a laugh, seeing their sporting achievements.
It didn't last. Once again I'm the baddie. I've put a copy of your words on my desktop to remind me it isn't my fault.
I have another daughter who is the complete opposite.
I have good friends and family.
I've had enough.
I'm taking your advice even though it breaks my heart.
I've walked away.

DamaskRose and Smiless, thank you so much for your support. I did not see these until today and I really appreciate your advice. I’m not very good at navigating this site either, I really have to not read what she is putting out there. Just stop the insanity on this side. Sometimes, I guess I need to beat myself up a little more by checking what she has written. I know, not a good choice, so…….. I start again…… making better choices for me! Again, thank you so much.

One of the most important things you can do PeaceLilly is stop defending yourself. Not only because doing so in your case enables your D to cast you as the bully and her as the victim, but also because it helps to frame your own mindset.

The only and simplest defence against lies is 'I am not responding verbally or mentally to the lies that are being told'.

If a third party repeats your D's false accusations, a good response to what she's said is 'did she', and if the subject's pursued 'I'm not responding to lies'.

'The only way to win the the game is to stop playing' so refusing to engage in conversation about the lies hopefully in time, silences them. When your D and/or anyone who believes the lies realises they're not going to get a response or reaction to them from you, they will see there's no point in bringing them up.

The inner turmoil and hurt will take longer to begin to diminish because it is awful when you know lies are being spun.

Think of a swan, gracefully gliding across the water with all of the hard work to swim across happening out of sight. Your D and others will see the swan on the water, they wont see how hard you have to work mentally, to keep your emotions in check as you refuse to give the lies any possible credibility by acknowledging them.

You're doing well, much better than you probably realise. Unless there's reconciliation, this estrangement is something you have to live with for the rest of your life so it's important to remember that there is a life after estrangement.

It certainly doesn't feel that way in the beginning, and there will inevitably be times when no matter how long you've been estranged, the pain and grief will feel overwhelming but you're not alone, and I know that for Mr. S. and myself and for many others, there's comfort to be found in knowing that .

I really hope you continue to find support on this forum PeaceLily as you can’t find it in “real life”. You’re doing really well and I hope you will be able to build on that.

All Sorts, thank you! It’s still a bit of a rollercoaster, but it’s getting better. I need to remind myself on the bad days that if I dare defend myself from he lies, she will use it be put me in the position of bully with her as the poor victim. I’ve been pretty good with rebuilding, with maintaining boundaries, but sometimes it really helps to have someone to vent to. I have not found anyone locally that I am sure is safe. So finding this group was really good. I really need folks who will listen and offer some more advice. I am doing the best I can right now and I hope to keep improving.

My heart goes out to you PeaceLily . You are doing the right thing but it's the hardest and most painful thing in the world to have to protect yourself from your own child.

So much harder when you feel unable to talk to friends for fear of what you say being passed on.

There's a support thread on this forum for anyone whose life has been affected by estrangement. A great place to chat and receive support and friendship.

I feel so sad to read these posts. I had never come across a narcissist until my ex son in law. I have distanced myself from this person now but his children continue to suffer as does my daughter as they co parent. He has to control. They only care about themselves and how important they are. Dealing on a daily basis with narcissistic behaviour is so very hard. Unless it is physical abuse generally from my experience the police really don’t want to know. As said above this type of person loves those in authority and expert at manipulating them. Some see through the lies but some don’t.

My advice is stay well away protect yourself. Where children are involved it is heartbreaking …

They test people to see what they can get away with. You just have to be firm and stand up to them. I wish I had realised this when I first got married but it was only much later that all these various mental problems were acknowledged.

I’m so sorry Peacelily, there was no other way for you, I hope you get the strength to rebuild a good life for yourself..

It has been almost a year since I spoke to my daughter. She has not been physically abusive, but psychologically and emotionally abusive. I was married to a narcissistic abusive (not physically) addict. I divorced 15 years ago and he has since passed away. Throughout her life, D has told me things like, I don’t care if you live or die. I was one of those who paid and paid and paid financially. Now that the money stream has stopped, she told me if I did not talk to her about how terrible I have been to her all her life, she needed to back off. She went on to accuse me of all sorts of lies, so I said if this was the direction she was going to take with me, I would end the conversation. I told her I love and any further contact was up to her. Since then she has lied and maligned me on line, in person with many people we both know, and has accused me of doing so many of the hurtful things she has done. I know better than to even try to defend myself because she will use any information or contact against me. I miss her and her family, but I know I have made the right choice despite also losing mutual friends. The remainder of friends, I do not dare to talk to because they may tell her and that nasty maligning will start all over again. So, each day I start and end with surrounding her with love, light, wellness and healing. I do the same for myself, but I add protection to that list. This is all I can do until she truly gets the help she needs and heals.

💗

i would be worried about abuse for children if she abuses you does she abuse the kids

dear OP, knowledge is power.
don't let them get you down.
have you looked on youtube; there are many excellent videos addressing these issues.
see esp dr les carter, dr ramini etc.
good luck.

i don't think narcissists do feel shame, even deep down.
that's why they are so effective at what they do, unburdened by any self doubt or reflection.
they look down on the rest of us for being such weaklings, bothered by wondering AIBU.
for them, that's like seeing a clear way into the citadel, easy peasy.

Due to their over inflated sense of self and lack of empathy, narcissists rarely experience guilt or shame tending to only be affected by their treatment of others if it affects them negatively.

They don't care about the feelings of others.

If she abuses you physically then report her to the Police. Don't let her get away this sort of behaviour.. it is serious and she is responsible..