Daughter won't communicate with me at all

Even when family members' lives do not revolve around each other, they can still be close. Watching my AC go out into the world and be useful members of society and build loving relationships has been a priviledge. We have let them go, keeping a door open always.

When this suddenly changes, and I mean suddenly, and everything you have valued as a family is thrown into the air like a rag doll and what falls back to earth bears no resemblance to even the most basic moral code, that takes a lot of accepting.

Having no choice but to accept the outcome is a stark emotion to swallow.

Norah. Are you estranged? You comment a lot on others estrangements.

Allsorts

Norah. Are you estranged? You comment a lot on others estrangements.

No, but I know people who are estranged. I do think people would be well served by self reflection - as on any thing that may bother.

I avoid the estrangement friends/advice thread - this person, with an optimistic H, feels as if she has been CO from her D- perhaps moving on is a solution?

Thanks for asking, but no I'm one in happy relationships - with opinions.

@Norah,

Thank you for your opnions, always welcome.

I don't know anyone who has been estranged who has not engaged in self-reflection.
~
Being estranged compels self-reflection. The OP states that she has looked at herself. Her H, perhaps optimistic, perhaps head in the sand, may be equally distraught but feels that for both of them to be openly traumatised would implode the family.

And I'm sure they thought they were in happy relationships before the estrangement became clear.

I've never come across anyone whose been estranged whose not engaged in self reflection either Ruby; as you say estrangement compels it.

Smileless2012

I've never come across anyone whose been estranged whose not engaged in self reflection either Ruby; as you say estrangement compels it.

I’ve come across quite a few who believed they had engaged in self reflection but really had only engaged in looking for reasons the other party was wrong. Or that had claimed to have engaged in self reflection only to have found themselves entirely innocent of any possible wrong doing ever. I would wager that anyone who TRULY engages in self reflection wouldn’t find oneself flawless

I just wanted to share something without being at all judgmental. I have a friend who over the years has become estranged from both her daughters, her mother and sister. She’s a lovely, caring person and is open with people about these estrangements. She tells people that she has no idea why they have cut her off and refuses to apologise as she has no idea what she’s be apologising for. However, I’ve known her for many years and over time she has told me why each estrangement happened - I’m not taking sides, but I genuinely feel that she has convinced herself that she doesn’t know. I’m certainly not saying an apology would help, but it just emphasises how complex these situations are.
I sometimes read this thread as I am estranged from the mother of my grandson, and hence my baby grandson. I know the reasons why, and it was my choice to ultimately stop playing her mind games after 12 years. My priority now is to support my son through this. My thoughts are with all those with a heavy heart x

I didnt realise that those who are sadly estranged, also have the burden of being much judged and analysed by others.

Though I suppose in real life, some of it from all sides and angles, is hidden.

@Grams2five

I would wager that those who judge themselves to be flawless are of a specific psychological profile. A tiny minority.

@fancythat

Similar to many life experiences, unless it's happened to you, it can be difficult to understand.

Very easy to judge though.

My very close friend was estranged from her daughter.
Once again we were discussing this situation. Without even thinking I told her what the problem was: her.
I pointed out a few incidents where she had upset/ angered her daughter but carried on doing them.
My friend didn’t say a word to me, she just stood up and left.
I thought that was the end of our friendship, but no. A few weeks later she came to me, gave me a big hug and said thank you.
She had reflected on all that had been said and done over the years. It’s now lovely to see them doing mother and daughter stuff.

I've never seen any EP claim to be flawless; to be without any imperfections therefore perfect because when they say they don't know why they've been estranged, or have done nothing to deserve such drastic action, that's not what they're saying.

There were more than a few incidents over the years when my mum upset me and made me angry and despite my saying so, did those things again, but I would never have estranged her for it.

Being analysed and judged by others comes with being estranged fancythat especially here on GN, with posts suggesting that those EP's who say they've self reflected haven't done so, or have only done so to see why the one who has estranged them is in the wrong.

You know your friend LadyGaGa and because she has in the past told you why her estrangements occurred, you're able to say that she's convinced herself she doesn't know, when she does.

Judgements are made here on GN by posters who don't know those they are judging, they don't even know their real names yet seem to think it appropriate to say they've not looked at themselves and their relationships with the AC who've estranged them, despite being told that they have.

I understand why many find estrangement difficult to understand, we do despite having been estranged so if this isn't something that's affected your life, it will be even harder. It's a shame though for those who have been estranged and come on a forum like GN to be judged so harshly, that the assumption that a parent whose been estranged must have done something wrong to override the fact that sometimes it's the AC whose at fault.

I think people can only respond to what is actually said and the character expressed in what they say

Nothing wrong with talking about self reflection etc, that is important for everyone. Many estranged children carry concerns over their own parenting and quite often placed great importance on self reflection and personal growth... It's not a bad thing by any means

Smileless2012

I've never seen any EP claim to be flawless; to be without any imperfections therefore perfect because when they say they don't know why they've been estranged, or have done nothing to deserve such drastic action, that's not what they're saying.

There were more than a few incidents over the years when my mum upset me and made me angry and despite my saying so, did those things again, but I would never have estranged her for it.

Being analysed and judged by others comes with being estranged fancythat especially here on GN, with posts suggesting that those EP's who say they've self reflected haven't done so, or have only done so to see why the one who has estranged them is in the wrong.

You know your friend LadyGaGa and because she has in the past told you why her estrangements occurred, you're able to say that she's convinced herself she doesn't know, when she does.

Judgements are made here on GN by posters who don't know those they are judging, they don't even know their real names yet seem to think it appropriate to say they've not looked at themselves and their relationships with the AC who've estranged them, despite being told that they have.

I understand why many find estrangement difficult to understand, we do despite having been estranged so if this isn't something that's affected your life, it will be even harder. It's a shame though for those who have been estranged and come on a forum like GN to be judged so harshly, that the assumption that a parent whose been estranged must have done something wrong to override the fact that sometimes it's the AC whose at fault.

I’ve yet to meet to flawless EP, AC or younger child - they just don’t exist. Or only in their own heads…😷

Everyone has their flaws - regardless of who they are. Most families accept the flaws and quirks, of others, or discuss them honestly, and then get on with life.🤷‍♀️

No dramas.

No one, least of all random posters, should be issuing judgements on others via the net, from afar. Well meant advice, yes. Judgement, no.

We can only all walk in our own shoes through life. 🙄

I agree VS that there's nothing wrong with talking about self reflection and I didn't say there was. What's wrong is intimating that EP's who post here on GN and say they've done so, haven't.

Many EP's when estranged have concerns about how they parented and if that is responsible for their estrangement, which is why they self reflect. If having done so they conclude that they're not responsible, whose to say otherwise to someone they've never met?

Well meant advice, yes. Judgement, no absolutely DL.

Actually, I clearly posted "expectations of what should be, how one was raised, self reflection all play a part in ease of acceptance" -- I stand by that thought.

When probed, I allowed "I do think people would be well served by self refection - as on anything that may bother."

OP never posted to self reflection, it was advice -- no judgement. I have no idea where OP is mentally, self reflection could not hurt.

I think most people would have concerns about their parenting, and most would freely admit they were far from perfect. Such parents, most, I would guess, spend a great deal of their lives self-reflecting, and determining to do better. When such a parent finds themselves estranged and says they have no idea why, I think they should be believed. People are imperfect - EPs, AC alike.

To find themselves disbelieved, advised (in the nicest possible way) to self-reflect, or to apologise, adds to a deep sense of injustice.

Often when I read estrangement threads I’m struck by this undercurrent of suspicion expressed towards EPs who say they don’t know why they’ve been estranged by their AC. In most cases it’s probably true.

It's not particularly helpful to read into comments things that aren't there because it might put others off reading the comments of others unfairly

Norah is a person who gives good advice and has clarified her meaning, I don't see any harm intended in her comments

If your comment is for me, Norah’s post and mine were probably being written simultaneously, so I didn’t see hers until I posted mine. In other words, I’m wasn’t responding to Norah, so best not to see connections that aren’t there, VS.

Smileless2012

I've never seen any EP claim to be flawless; to be without any imperfections therefore perfect because when they say they don't know why they've been estranged, or have done nothing to deserve such drastic action, that's not what they're saying.

There were more than a few incidents over the years when my mum upset me and made me angry and despite my saying so, did those things again, but I would never have estranged her for it.

Being analysed and judged by others comes with being estranged fancythat especially here on GN, with posts suggesting that those EP's who say they've self reflected haven't done so, or have only done so to see why the one who has estranged them is in the wrong.

You know your friend LadyGaGa and because she has in the past told you why her estrangements occurred, you're able to say that she's convinced herself she doesn't know, when she does.

Judgements are made here on GN by posters who don't know those they are judging, they don't even know their real names yet seem to think it appropriate to say they've not looked at themselves and their relationships with the AC who've estranged them, despite being told that they have.

I understand why many find estrangement difficult to understand, we do despite having been estranged so if this isn't something that's affected your life, it will be even harder. It's a shame though for those who have been estranged and come on a forum like GN to be judged so harshly, that the assumption that a parent whose been estranged must have done something wrong to override the fact that sometimes it's the AC whose at fault.

@Smileless, you’ve made many valid points in your comment (and this thread overall), but I do feel compelled to respond to one specific thing you’ve said.

“There were more than a few incidents over the years when my mum upset me and made me angry and despite my saying so, did those things again, but I never would have estranged her for it.”

What does this mean to you, in the context of this conversation? Is it a comment on how AC’s individual tolerance for disrespected boundaries differ? Or more related to the discussion of making mistakes while parenting?

I don’t want to make assumptions or put words in your mouth so thought it best to ask for your clarification outright.

I wasn't responding to Norah either in my post @ 08.56. My comments were due to what had been posted by Grams2five and others who I responded too directly.

The part of my post that you've quoted inkhooves is a comment on peoples individual tolerance levels and mistakes that we all make while parenting.

What maybe tolerated by some, wont be tolerated by others and I'm not making any judgement here. What concerns me and other EP's on this forum is the demonising of EP's. That if your AC has estranged you there must have been abuse; you're toxic; you're a narcissist or in the case of the OP, her D has insinuated she's mentally ill.

Sometimes it's one or more of the aforementioned but sometimes it's none of them.

We've all made mistakes as parents and our AC including the ones who've estranged us will make mistakes too. Will some of them hope or expect more tolerance from their own children for the mistakes they will make, or will they accept without complaint if heaven forbid they're estranged?

I hope that clarifies it for you .

I think it's probably something that needs to be healed to help communication with others

As we know we get all sorts of people commenting here, not all estranged at all and sometimes the hard things are worth discussing and considering

The silly cattiness just isn't a good look... Especially when it isn't going to get any reaction

Who are you accusing of silly cattiness VS?

It has been many long years since we were estranged from our eldest daughter. We were not fantastic parents, we muddled through and just did the best we could. Many times since the estrangement we have walked down the well trodden path of questioning ourselves, examining it from every angle, and of course there were arguments just as there were arguments with our other 3 daughters who aren’t estranged but stuck by us throughout and so became estranged also from their older sister. We really don’t know why she would suddenly throw us under a bus, her sisters don’t either. If it was simply down to some run of the mill argument it has been like taking a 3 ton wrecking ball to an egg.
But of course people judge, it sounds so alien to those parents who have never experienced it, and the natural impulse is to assume the parents must have done something terribly wrong, whereas the grown child is more readily accepted as the victim in all of this.
I can’t change this and won’t try to, have wasted enough years in the wilderness, suffering a break down and seeing the effect this had on my DH and other daughters.
People will think what they will think and I will get on with my life regardless.

What EAC absolutely knows is that abusive people do not change. An abusive parent was abusive before children and will still be abusive when the grandchildren turn up...

There is a whole thread for those red flags

What makes someone abusive in the first place is much more complex

As for adult children who walked away from a non abusive household... Yes something happened but whether that was an abusive spouse, some childhood trauma that was hidden so deeply even being around their loved ones was unbearable or some of mental illness... They just aren't talking about it and we don't see them anywhere to make sense of it

But honest truth is that children from abusive households... We know a lot about what unhealthy relationships look like, a lot about what healthy relationships should look like and we are worth listening too... Just watch out for the people trying to shut that down... And read the red flags thread