Daughter won't communicate with me at all

It can become an never ending cycle of blame and apologies Babs becoming emotionally exhausting.

You can apologise for your part in a misunderstanding Caleo which doesn't mean you alone were responsible for it.

Yes, Violet Sky, you can say "sorry " for all these, but sometimes 'sorry' is taken to mean you have behaved badly and are to blame .

It's important to be clear when "sorry" is not to be taken as an apology.

Surely, for any apology to be worth it’s name, it requires an admission of guilt, taking responsibility for any mistake, and a genuine apology, with the tacit implication that you won’t repeat whatever it was.🤷‍♀️

An “apology” if you don’t feel you’ve done anything wrong, therefore don’t take responsibility, and there’s an inability to promise not to do whatever it was, if you don’t know what you’re supposed to have done in the first place, it’s meaningless.

It’s nonsense to issue a non-guilt apology - everything would be really improved if both parties have a fully honest discussion over what’s gone wrong in the first place.🙄

I agree DiamondLily, but when you have been reduced by a toxic and abusive relationship to believe any resolution is better than continuing with the endless erosion of your self worth, any logic or rationality can go out of the window.
We feel stupid and pathetic now for the apologies we made to our estranged daughter, it was humiliating.
Having come this far after 10/11 long years of estrangement we cannot believe the people we had become back then, and sorry has definitely become a word we don't dispense with lightly anymore.

Caleo

Yes, Violet Sky, you can say "sorry " for all these, but sometimes 'sorry' is taken to mean you have behaved badly and are to blame .

It's important to be clear when "sorry" is not to be taken as an apology.

I still don't understand this

What is wrong with taking some responsibility? Unless you are dealing with an abuser, it takes 2 to fall out

No it doesn't take two to fall out if that's what you call estrangement. If someone estranges you thats it, they rebuff any contact you try to initiate. It’s cruel to just cut someone off, you owe them an explanation especially your own mother. Then you can move on. It takes both sides to reconcile
Parental abuse needs a thread of its own as I and others have no experience of it. After so long I now feel ashamed of my d.her spineless treatment of me, because I know I didn't deserve it. Shes not perfect and neither am I but I know i did my best and I'm not capable of doing what she has. I could not trust her again.
Eleanor Rose, she will not to talk with, that’s hard but don't beat yourself up, try not to let it make you ill. I’m sure your husband won’t take her side against you, look after yourself as there is nothing you can do.
I fail to see why every mention of estrangement turns round to an ac being abused. We are not talking about parental abuse.

Abuse and estrangement very often go hand in hand, especially from an AC perspective. There are also different views of what is and isn't abusive. You are going to get that point of view in estrangement discussions on a public forum. I bring it up when I feel it is relevant

User138562

Abuse and estrangement very often go hand in hand, especially from an AC perspective. There are also different views of what is and isn't abusive. You are going to get that point of view in estrangement discussions on a public forum. I bring it up when I feel it is relevant

I'm not sure that its especially from an AC perspective per se. Parents who are abused by their AC also choose to estrange from their AC. So abuse and Estrangement may often go hand in hand, whomever decides to estrange.

Babs03

I agree DiamondLily, but when you have been reduced by a toxic and abusive relationship to believe any resolution is better than continuing with the endless erosion of your self worth, any logic or rationality can go out of the window.
We feel stupid and pathetic now for the apologies we made to our estranged daughter, it was humiliating.
Having come this far after 10/11 long years of estrangement we cannot believe the people we had become back then, and sorry has definitely become a word we don't dispense with lightly anymore.

When all this is going on, when you know that you’re not actually the problem, it is a form of gaslighting by ACs - you end up feeling confused and existing in a sort of ”Alice in Wonderland” situation, where nothing is as it seems.🤷‍♀️

I suppose it’s a bit like an abusive marriage - you do anything to avoid more dramas, but it’s not healthy.

Most people somehow manage to break free from it in the end, thankfully.🙂

The word “sorry” should only be used when there needs to be an apology - then it should be given without reservation.

I agree DL. Sorry is meaningless if you know you've done nothing wrong and as Babs' post illustrates, it can result in the erosion of one's self worth and gives power and control to the one gas lighting and manipulating you.

As you say Madgran, sometimes parents being abused by their AC decide that estrangement is the only option so when abuse is the issue, it isn't just from an AC's perspective.

I fail to see why every mention of estrangement turns round to an ac being abused so do I Allsorts, and also why more often than not the abuser is the parent when sometimes it's the AC's partner/husband/wife whose responsible.

It takes two to reconcile and to want to make a relationship work, but it doesn't always take two to fall out.

If no one is perfect, as has been attested, then yes there is always room for an apology and yes it takes 2 to fall out BECAUSE no one is perfect

In agreement with Allsorts, she sums the situation perfectly, also a parental abuse thread could be helpful.

A few people here have suffered parental abuse, it would be helpful, maybe one of them could start it?

Unfortunately too many women end up in abusive relationships and that carries the risk that their child repeats the cycle

@Smileless

It takes two to reconcile and to want to make a relationship work, but it doesn't always take two to fall out.

This is my perspective too. When there is NO choice, estrangement is a one-way street. Reconciliation can be on the table but people have to be authentic and it not to, in all but words, be a trap. Families can be incredibly complex so each case is different. But the pattern of behaviour in some cases is like a tick box exercise in cutting off parents, regardless of what has gone before.

I also agree that a separate thread for parental abuse would open an opportunity for others to share their experiences with those in that position.

No, it doesn't take two to fall out because no one is perfect as the examples we see here on GN attest too.

Although there isn't a thread specifically on the subject of parental abuse, it is a subject that often comes up as part of a wider discussion or a posters personal experience. What can happen though are arguments as to what does and does not constitute parental abuse which aren't necessarily beneficial.

If adult children aren't giving reasons I think it is impossible to say that with any certainty

If AC aren't giving reasons it's impossible to say anything with any certainty VS which for the parents they've estranged, is the issue.

Way forward, it seems, is merely ignore - moving on happily.

I'm with Norah

Go forth, live your best happy life

The majority of those who have estranged or have been estranged do go forward and live their best life, being as happy as they can be.

Way forward, it seems, is merely ignore - moving on happily really Norah, you think if you were being treated by your D in the way the OP is, that that is something you could do?

Smileless

Sometimes it is not something we could do, but we have to do.

Smileless2012

The majority of those who have estranged or have been estranged do go forward and live their best life, being as happy as they can be.

Way forward, it seems, is merely ignore - moving on happily really Norah, you think if you were being treated by your D in the way the OP is, that that is something you could do?

Yes.

We have a life apart from our AC. I'm aware not everyone has a living spouse or is married to the other parent of their child(ren) and I'm quite sure that would make 'not communicating' difficult. However, that is not my life.

Having a life apart from your AC isn't the same as having a life without them because you've been estranged Norah. We have a life apart from our DS and it's nothing like not having our ES in our lives at all.

Smileless2012

Having a life apart from your AC isn't the same as having a life without them because you've been estranged Norah. We have a life apart from our DS and it's nothing like not having our ES in our lives at all.

As I noted, not at all like my life. I'm still married to my husband since I was 16, he is father of our children. Our life does not revolve around them and theirs.

I suspect expectations of what 'should be', how one was raised, self reflection all play a part in ease of acceptance. I could, of course be incorrect.

Oh Smileless 2012, I have been estranged from my sister for over 30yrs. My mother & other sister also took her side; they were all very similar in their outlook. (I was the younger sister). Anyway I didn't go on to to live a best life, in fact I have been very lonely sometimes but luckily I have a good husband, whilst the ugly sisters are both single & still enjoy their frequent coven meetings. 😊