Estrangement isn't only non contact. It's lack of empathy and love. It's selfishness.

I think she may feel like someone bereaved, although (obviously) she’s not.

Her husband leaving (to her) might feel like she’s had the heart torn out of her and that she’s finding life extremely difficult.🤷‍♀️

It’s very, very hard to feel pleasant towards anyone when you feel like that. She might find it hard to socialise at the moment, and Christmas is painful if you’ve lost someone you loved very much..

Whether it’s an AC, EP, or partner. And regardless of how you’ve lost them.

I honestly would just give her some leeway at the moment. Just be there to support her and the children.

Best wishes 🌺 .

DiamondLily

I think she may feel like someone bereaved, although (obviously) she’s not.

Her husband leaving (to her) might feel like she’s had the heart torn out of her and that she’s finding life extremely difficult.🤷‍♀️

It’s very, very hard to feel pleasant towards anyone when you feel like that. She might find it hard to socialise at the moment, and Christmas is painful if you’ve lost someone you loved very much..

Whether it’s an AC, EP, or partner. And regardless of how you’ve lost them.

I honestly would just give her some leeway at the moment. Just be there to support her and the children.

Best wishes 🌺 .

I agree. She is a person bereaved. She’s lost her marriage , lost the man she thought loved her above all else. I actually feel really bad for her - giving into a child and continuing on a holiday she clearly wasn’t up to

I’m sure there’s a lot more to this but I’m feeling for your daughter. I can only imagine how much she must be struggling right now. It’s only a few months since her whole world was ripped apart, yet you’re expecting her to be all merry & bright…?! Being with you is a reminder of the lovely family life that she has lost. Have a heart.

And I think your last sentence is unnecessarily cruel to your daughter.

She sounds heartbroken and probably just wanted to go home after a long day.

Give her a break.

Poor, poor girl
Maybe you would be more understanding if her husband had died maybe not
Sorry to be blunt but you remind me of my own mother
Please try to think of how devastated your poor daughter is, put yourself in her shoes and show some compassion

Stop thinking about yourself and try thinking about your daughter.

Christmas is only one day a year

Think what this is attitude is going to cost you the other 364

I bit surprised really to read these comments. Yes, I am sure she feels bereft but I think she needs to focus on her child. The father has gone. This little boy has had his world torn apart too. I feel if she can try to live in the moment she will find some happiness and indeed peace in seeing her child happy.

Hello Eugenia, I'm wondering how long it's been since your D's husband left. You specifically mention your GS who is 7 and say your s.i.l. left when your D's son was 2, so has it been 5 years?

I think depending on how long ago this happened could be significant in terms of how you're feeling.

Being in a room with people yet still be alone is a horrible feeling. Is this how you feel with your D because it maybe how your D feels when she's with others, not just you but anyone. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm assuming that what happened on Christmas day happens whenever you're together so we're not just talking about one day here.

If the marriage ended some time ago and she's still struggling to come to terms with this, perhaps some counselling would help but I do see that this could be hard for you to suggest.

You maybe right that it's because of the children wanting to be with you that you still have contact, but where there's contact there's hope. Whatever is going on, your D does appear to be putting her children's happiness above her own and that could be the bridge that brings you back together again.

I hope so .

Your daughter is clearly devastated and still struggling quite understandably. She is trying to do her best and clearly putting her child's needs before her own as she agreed to his request to visit despite struggling herself.

It is hard for you but she has to find her own way through this. Have you told her that you know how hard this must be for her and that you are there for what she needs from you whatever that may be at the moment. Just a small example but maybe offering to take your grandson to visit the uncle whilst his Mum took a quiet break and some time to herself ...IF she wanted that?

My sympathies lie with the daughter too. She's crying out for some love here. She was selfless in giving in to her child's wishes and helping her Uncle enjoy his day.

I don't see the problem here. I don't see a lack of love on her part, but it seems sadly lacking on yours.

Give the girl a break please.

Estrangement isn't only non contact. It's lack of empathy and love. It's selfishness.

I assume this is directed at your daughter, but really, it is you who lacks empathy.
Your daughter has had her family life ripped apart by her selfish husband; she is grieving for her marriage and facing up to an uncertain future. However pleasant Christmas may have been she was clearly overwhelmed and wanted to withdraw. To please her son she agreed to go, which pleased your brother-in-law, but then you accuse her of:
" a lack of love towards me.... worse than I thought. It has expanded to caring only for herself with no thought to anyone else's feelings."
Actually, look to yourself.
There are threads at present about abandoned wives facing up to the future and if you peruse them it might help you understand some of what your daughter is experiencing.

Enstrangement isn't only non contact. It's lack of empathy and love. It's selfishness.

Lack of love is not selfishness, surely.

'It has expanded to caring only for herself with no thought to anyone else's feelings'

How has she possibly done this?
She's put her son, you, her dad, brother and her dad's brother over herself when she's already fragile.

Not one adult has considered her feelings.

This poor daughter of yours has spent 5 years visiting you with her son... she is clearly very withdrawn and struggling, possibly also suffering with depression and all you can think about is yourself.. I have no words..

On reading the responses to the OP I've come to the conclusion that only MOnica has correctly interpreted the OP. She has responded wisely and with compassion. The problem the OP describes has been ongoing for almost five years.

I've just found your old thread OP as your writing style seemed familiar, there's obviously a lot more to this situation than the above.
Have a look at the advice again given on there too.

For a few years after her divorce, my daughter stopped sending Wedding Anniversary Cards or wishes to her 2 happily married brothers. Today is the 11th WA of one of her brothers, and I noticed for the first time, she has sent them good wishes on our family WhatsApp group.
Good grief Eugena , you are the one without empathy.

Aldom

On reading the responses to the OP I've come to the conclusion that only MOnica has correctly interpreted the OP. She has responded wisely and with compassion. The problem the OP describes has been ongoing for almost five years.

Quite a number of posters have expressed the same as Monica some succinctly; some with an acknowledgement that the OP is finding it hard but that she needs to consider her daughters perspective and needs more than her own.

Wow. Most of you have not one clue. It's been 5 years already and she has a new boyfriend and claims to be happy with him. I grieved for my daughter for at least 2 straight years went to bed crying every night over the pain her husband caused her...not only did I have empathy but it was so much empathy even my husband said I needed to stop. I couldn't. I cried and cried. Yet a few months after it happened, I told my daughter I was there to talk if she needed but she said she would never talk to me because I married a man like her father...who is, I am pretty sure a complete narcissistic control freak. Well...I didn't realize this early on and stayed in my marriage...so sue me. That doesn't make me a bad mom, but rather someone's scapegoat for his own life. So when I was visibly hurt when she said I will never confide in you just look at your husband, she didn't have any empathy, in fact she got angry with me that I dare be hurt!! She literally shoved me out her door that day while I was crying! Then later months, one day out of the blue when my little grandson (at 3 years old then) was trying to get me to see something in his room by saying gma gma gma come look, she blurted out how it made her SICK to see him try to get my attentions ...I mean, he was only 3 years old, toddlers tend to do that. That was even more hurtful to me but I said nothing because I learned my lesson on showing any emotion. She has turned into a cruel selfish person. She was not like that before, we were always close always together and she loved making me a grandma. Now she hates me. I still love her, I still feel for her loss but her words and actions tell me she has zero feelings for me anymore. I cry everyday, it feels like my daughter I actually died. She criticizes me constantly, never takes me up on offers to help her with anything...I offer all the time but only an emergency or last minute thing is the only time she will ask me. I have just come to realize I am nothing to her. Only 7 years ago, I recall her face when we visited her after she gave birth...... she was smiling, literally beaming with joy when I held her son...she said look at my mommy! She's holding my baby!
I was so happy in that moment. Now it's only looks of judgement and annoyance I get from her. She doesn't want my empathy. She doesn't want me, period. What's more is she talks to my grandson calling me a bad grandma when she thinks I spend more time with him than his sister, which I do not. Now I wish there was some way to secretly record how long I dpend with each, to have some proof, , but how I don't know. If anything I spend less time with him. But it doesn't matter because the goal seems to be to turn my grandson from me too. The 4 year old granddaughter is still too young for that, mb later. I am hurt by all this. But surely people, I am the bad guy here, right?? Because well, I'm the mom and mom's are always to blame. Give me a break!!!

Oh dear. There’s no positive way forward really.

You’re not actually estranged yet Eugenia. I think you need some professional help to try to prevent that happening.

Your GD doesn't get a mention until near the end of your last paragraph whereas your angel GS features quite a lot. Your GD doesn't even get included in her father leaving as apparently he left your DD and your GS. Are you sure you aren't playing favourites?

I've got 8 GC and I know it is easy to do but does annoy the parents.

She wanted to go home after a long day of Christmas activities with her children, she hasn't seen her great uncle since Christmas 2022 so they are hardly close.

Nothing that you've posted sounds remotely healthy.