Sons partner dislikes me , now son is very very distant , estranged.

Daughter in law's reasons for not being friendly are indeed trivial. However, trivialities such as house being "cluttered " may signal to her that your tastes and ideas are different .

I wonder what she meant by "cluttered". Have you too many cats? Do you display porcelain ladies and china cottages? Hundreds of books? Redundant washing machines and broken computer monitors?
She did not specify what sort of cluttered insulted her sensibilities did she.

It is rather strange that objective comments trying to help reach resolutions to family disputes are interpreted as unkind. Perhaps that is something that must be worked on by the reader not the person giving an honest reaction to what is said?

You are all right, Luminance. Some of us at Gransnet try to look at problems objectively.

It is such a pity people like the OP's daughter in law aren't explicit as to what the trouble is, as details are how we relate to others.

For instance my dear departed friend of my own age had a sitting room cluttered with ornaments some of them each sitting upon a crocheted mat. Also she had so much unnecessary furniture she cut open her shin trying to navigate through her room.And yet my friend was much better able to appreciate music than I was due to my own cluttered musical sensibility.

The problem for Jogr isn't that her d.i.l. isn't being friendly Caleo she's told her son that she doesn't like her and her 'reasons' that the OP has posted are as you say trivial.

Jopr as you can see by some of the unpleasant posts, how a mans relationship with such a person would affect the interaction with his mother and family. Some women see Mil as a threat as some mil view dil as one, Either way if you are on the receiving end, fill your life and don't wait for a miracle, you really are better off without them and the games. Be yourself in all interaction with them, value what you do have. I aim to avoid unpleasant people, they just suck they suck life out of you.

What rather stood out to me is that it is the son who is hanging up on calls. Video calls at that. Perhaps take the DIL out of this equation. Perhaps her lack of contact is due to what son has opined to her about the family. So focus on the son. Inability to do that and look to the DIL will only cause more issues.

Luminance

It is rather strange that objective comments trying to help reach resolutions to family disputes are interpreted as unkind. Perhaps that is something that must be worked on by the reader not the person giving an honest reaction to what is said?

I haven’t read this thread closely enough to know what posts you’re referring to but I agree with this sentiment in general.

When someone requests help with a situation, I assume that includes them being open to considering constructive criticism, not only being told what they want to hear.

In my opinion, that’s the type of response that’s unkind because it discourages the person from gaining deeper insight, when it’s often required to get unstuck and make progress.

I’m not talking about bashing an OP but you can certainly disagree with them!

@Blueberry pie, if you do read back a bit you will see that most posters simply advise the OP to not upset the apple cart, to try to see her son and GCs separately and not to say anything critical to him about his partner/wife. Am not sure, based upon information given, that anything else can be advised.
The issue is that some tend to judge all estranged parents as somehow being the only ones at fault and so it is incumbent upon them to take whatever is dished out to them and consider themselves lucky if their offspring one day decide to actually treat them like human beings. I know this personally, it has been my experience for many years, and at this point in time I will say that I don't mind criticism, bring it on, but if I want to be judged will wait until I am in a court of law before that happens, nobody has the right to judge others unless they have walked in their shoes.
Is true that some EACs have a dreadful time of it and have to estrange from abusive parents, my heart goes out to them, and their parents are entirely at fault. I don't think that is the case with the OP on here, though as I say we can only advise on information given. In my own case my DH and I were abused by our eldest daughter, 'yes', we can also be abused, it happens, and couldn't break the cycle until our other three daughters, already estranged from their oldest sister, intervened. Not early enough to prevent me suffering a breakdown.
So you see there is a backstory we don't know when parents/grandparents come on here to seek help and support, some despairing and in poor mental health as a result, so it is wise to keep that in mind also for this is a support thread and we don't ever know how fragile people are who seek us out. Many don't return when criticised heavily, or even abused by visiting trolls.
Everything needs to be put in context, and I hope this helps do just that.

I think that perhaps an armour has been put on that doesn't need to be there. Armour is only needed for those that are guilty who do not wish to see that is the case. The innocent need not being hurt by what does not apply.

Luminance

I think that perhaps an armour has been put on that doesn't need to be there. Armour is only needed for those that are guilty who do not wish to see that is the case. The innocent need not being hurt by what does not apply.

Quite frankly that is nonsense, many people wear armour to prevent themselves being hurt/abused. Has absolutely nothing to do with being guilty or innocent.

Thats a new one, armour only for the guilty.

Quite frankly that is nonsense yes it is Babs and I suspect that the fact that it could also apply to the one who has decided to estrange wasn't considered.

As you rightly posted @ 17.57, there are AC who estrange their parents because they've been abused and like you, my heart goes out to them.

Their 'armour' is their decision to estrange, to protect themselves from any further abuse or perhaps we should simply judge them as being guilty for taking that course of action.

The OP's connection with her son has ^lessened and lessened^; she is not estranged.

Not at all, a healthy person is resilient and does not believe things that don't apply to them applies to them. To do otherwise is to make a victim of yourself or to hide a truth.

Luminance

Not at all, a healthy person is resilient and does not believe things that don't apply to them applies to them. To do otherwise is to make a victim of yourself or to hide a truth.

Nobody makes a victim of themselves, don't blame victims. Others make people into victims.
Just make sure you never volunteer for the Samaritans.
Good grief!

Do you find yourself frustrated when others do not do as you would or want? Do you feel you should never be subjected to frustration, inconvenience or annoyance? Because that I am afraid is not healthy. Being angry on someone elses behalf is understandable, less understandable when it is a few comments from a stranger but understandable. To apply everything that is said to yourself however is not at all. Especially to the point of attacking it alienating others joining in a discussion. On reflection does that not become rather apparent?

Why has this been made a personal attack on a person you don't know? That says more about you.. No one has answers, no one has run down the Dil or son, personal attack at people are bullying. There is a person feeling sad at dwindling or no contract with her son, isn't that normal, then to be told she's a victim and as a victim it's her own fault is completely out of order. Maybe you will be judged as harshly as those you judge. Then to be given a stripping down lecture, it's a joke.
Poster doesn't need this and need to know most of us emphasise.

If you believe that anyone contributing to this discussion is attacking or alienating other posters then you should report their posts to GN Luminance.

Unsubstantiated suggestions that this is happening does nothing to further the discussion and is of no benefit to the OP, nor is victim blaming.

Other people's views are not victimising you. That is the issue I am trying to rather carefully highlight. That is a mentality you must step away from for your sake, for the sake of those needing advice and support and for the sake of those who come here and are met with hostility when trying to help. It's a rather obvious issue. I understand how people here feel protective of this topic but to argue every point or interpret it as unkind is self sabotage.

Some people's views do victimise others Luminance and as I posted earlier, rather than making vague allegations about posters being met with hostility etc. if you have a complaint, take it to GN.

I don't agree that every point is argued or interpreted as unkind but if a poster disagrees with what's been posted they're entitled to say so, as they're entitled to say if they think it's unkind, after all isn't that what you're doing right now?

In the simplest terms possible, think before reacting. Put the need of the person posting before your own. It's entirely hostile here.

Put the need of the person posting before your own good advice Luminance and maybe you should try it sometime.

Yes of course I would. Even needs they cannot see for themselves. That's rather the point.

Armour is only needed for those that are guilty who do not wish to see that is the case

I cant see this one Luminance. In for instance a Domestic Violence scenario standard advice is self protection by whatever means. Self protection could be called Armour I suppose put on by the victim to protect themselves from the DV. That self protection/armour might take many forms. But it's not been put on by the person who is the guilty party.

The same can apply in other scenarios as well

Oh yes Madgran77 but this is not what was being discussed. What was being discussed was armour against others who don't view a situation the same way and taking it as an attack on yourself when it was not in fact you or your situation being addressed. In life we cannot have everyone agree with us and we cannot have our views placed above anyone else's. If this causes any undue amount of frustration that is ours to deal with and not a justification to react negatively. People are protective if this space and that is understandable but the slightest different view inspires a strong reaction of "we are under attack" This reaction is sometimes warranted and often not. That is the armour I speak of.

But it's not being put on by the person who is the guilty party exactly Madgran.

Perhaps you could give specific examples where the slightest different view (has inspired) a strong reaction of "we are under attack" Luminance not including your own post of course @ 11.13 in which you claim some posters trying to help have been met with hostility.