Sons partner dislikes me , now son is very very distant , estranged.

she seemed to hate the GC's as much as she hated me well there was no way you were going to get any where with her was there Indigo so your DH did the right thing visiting her on his own.

Thank goodness your son ended the relationship Dee. Once married and when she became pregnant, our ES's wife starting accusing me of 'snubbing' her, of putting the 'phone down in the middle of a conversation and our DS and his then girl friend saying things about her.

Looking back there were red flags but even if we'd realised this is what they were what could we have done? They were married and their first child was on the way.

We just didn't see it coming; we were so close to our son that it never occurred to us that we could lose him. Twelve years later it's still hard to believe.

I totally believe that there are people who will do this both male and female absolutely.

Indigo8

When you say your children don’t say toilet or pardon what do you mean? Sorry if I sound silly but is it just semantics or are you referring to manners?

There are different words for toilet and pardon can be expressed differently. Weird if your MIL insisted on particular words. Mind you, there are some strange people out there!

Smileless2012 I honestly feel very, very lucky that he saw what she was doing or trying to do.
I learnt later that she'd shared with him some really awful experiences that she'd had, however it's hard to say if they were true given what she did to him and our family.
She was a person who blamed everyone else, nothing at all was her fault or doing! (always a massive red flag for me).
He'd told me he'd had some concerns but had put them to one side but at that point he was younger, quite naive to a degree and I think she used that.

I'm so sorry for what's happened to you

surfsup

Indigo8

When you say your children don’t say toilet or pardon what do you mean? Sorry if I sound silly but is it just semantics or are you referring to manners?

There are different words for toilet and pardon can be expressed differently. Weird if your MIL insisted on particular words. Mind you, there are some strange people out there!

We brought the DCs up to be polite, to say please and thank you and to show respect. We did not bring them up to be rude and undisciplined or to say sh*thouse instead of toilet. They said loo and usually said Sorry rather than pardon or pardon me.

MIL actually smacked one of the DCs for asking to go to the loo and not the toilet. It was just as well I was not there at the time.

Indigo8

Wow that’s unforgivable. Smacked one for saying loo instead of toilet? What a dreadful woman.

I never understood a grown adult who would hit a child for being "rude" but would find it quite unacceptable for me to hit them in the same instance. Hitting children is simple to understand abuse. There is no acceptable argument. They either let their own anger get the better of them or they are a rather controlling person.

Thank you Dee.

That's appalling Indigo .

So sad for you. I might say " join the club". It is so common nowadays. I have 5 grandchildren, only met the first one. He is nearly 6 now. I have never seen his brother, and I found out through a friend who saw a photo on Facebook that my youngest dd was expecting again. Through some very lovely friends and the Internet, I have found out that the little sister was born in September. I also have 2 granddaughters from my middle daughter.
I put cards and small gifts that I make for them in a box, in the hope that they may one day look for their Nanna, otherwise a dear friend is instructed to pass the box on after my death. Love in a box.

@Sarahr,
I sincerely hope that your love in a box finds its way to your GCs. And you are right, this is not uncommon, we haven’t seen our two granddaughters since they were very small and now they are teenagers, they wouldn’t recognise us if we ever met, which is very unlikely to happen. We sent gifts and cards every year to them until a cousin told us that our daughter probably bins them.
Last year was the first year we decided not to send anything, on one of our granddaughter’s birthdays we bought a cake and lit a candle on it instead.
Sending hugs 🤗

Indigo8

I experienced the other side of this situation. The very first time I met MIL I could tell she did not approve of me.

As time went on I found the easiest way to deal with her was to say as little as possible and avoid eye contact.

The problem was that I came from "A family that had very different ways". I didn't say pardon or toilet and I didn't want to call her mother once I married her son. I didn't believe in smacking the children or making them say pardon etc.

In other words she saw me as being from the under class and thought that her son had married beneath him.

In the end DH visited her on his own as she seemed to hate the GCs as much as she hated me. Apparently she would spend the whole visit going on about how awful I, the children and my family were.

Well she has shot herself in the foot here, I think, as I say ‘loo’ and ‘sorry’ - as did the late Queen I believe !!

Love in a box is what it is Sarahr .

"My son told me she does not like me she said I am too happy , superficial, my house is too small and cluttered, and I am not grounded. "

The young woman does not want much to do with you because your life style and interests don't interest her. I suppose it sometimes happens that a daughter in law has interests in common with her mother in law, but it's a matter of luck when it happens.
It is a pity the young woman can't regard you a little less seriously and laugh about the differences between her and you.
Please keep in touch with your son and don't criticise his wife.

Smileless2012, thank you so much for the alternative saying about a son!
“A son’s a son for the whole of his life, regardless of whether he has a wife.”
I have repeated the OTHER version way too many times!

Respectfully Smileless,

You can only speak for yourself and your perspective. Unless you can state 100% unequivocally that your son and daughter in law view the situation the exact same way as you, and have told you this themselves, there is really nothing in your comment that invalidates my overall point.

Relationships evolve. It’s never so simple as placing blame at the feet of the newcomer. Men have agency. Men are responsible for their relationships.

My comment was a general comment that I stand by because it is an objective view about relationship evolution and the female propensity to blame other women and absolve sons.

You hold your son accountable for his part. Great. Not everyone does. This OP certainly did not. The countless other comments I read on various posts on this forum do not always. If it doesn’t apply to you that’s perfectly fine but it doesn’t negate my point one bit. I said some women do not hold their sons accountable. I can and absolutely will speak to this. I do not need permission to do so.

Are you sure it's dislike on her part? The behaviour you describe is consistent with autism, for example - difficulty meeting people's eyes and engage in conversations are both pretty standard. There's a wide spectrum that's recognised now; autistic people aren't necessarily totally switched off - in fact, many can and do function relatively well (as your son's partner seems to be doing, having a home life and family of her own). I'm not saying that's what's wrong here but it's something to consider. Maybe have a quietly tactful word with your son about it?

"There are different words for toilet and pardon can be expressed differently."

I agree. My English master always took pains to explain why certain forms of speech were right (or wrong) and he always insisted on "lavatory" and "what?" rather than "toilet" and "pardon".
His reasoning was that "toilet" has its own specific meaning which doesn't refer to a lavatory (it's to do with hair & make-up, as in the old paintings depicting "a lady at her toilet").
I don't know why he didn't like "pardon" except when it's used to excuse a "histrionic effect" (fart), in which case it's short for "Please pardon me". If we didn't catch something he said, he preferred us to say, "Sorry, what?" because it's an abbreviated form of "I'm sorry, I didn't hear you - what did you say?"
Mind you, this is going way back to the times when the English language was taught quite thoroughly and people who could use it well were admired rather than dismissed as elitist pedants!
For my money, it's ridiculous to develop an aversion to a word on the grounds of class. I've met plenty of people over the years who could barely express themselves and others whose spoken English was magnificent! They couldn't in any way be compartmentalised in terms of class, income, celebrity or anything else!

I am so sorry for those whose dil has been the reason for estrangement. I had a very close friend of forty years. We were in touch most days, she was a true extrovert and always the centre of attention as she was so attractive and had a good sense of humour. She was capable of great kindness but in many ways it was her way or no way, it didn't create a problem for me as I knew how to handle her. However her only son was completely under her spell, no girl friend was good enough, then he bought one home who was very assertive, but all got on and a wedding was arranged, every arrangement the girl made, my friend, lets call call her A found a better alternative, there were many minor battles which A won. After the marriage A had a key to the house so she could feed the cat, when the couple went on holiday she redecorated the kitchen, restocked the freezer and added little touches to the home. Dil went mad and they fell out big time. They made up when first baby was on the way. A went into the house, washed all the dirty washing and made a cake for her sons birthday in dil kitchen, another big argument, this time no making up. She never saw her grandchildren and was broken hearted, she always maintained it was dil fault as she had come between her son and her. As I. knew her so well I told her I wouldn't like it and she was on thin ice, she replied I didn't understand as I was not close to mine. Things were iffy between us for a time but I let it go. When she died her son went to the funeral but dil and gc didn't and I felt so sad at the waste of it all. A refused to see she was at fault, I used to say see her point of view, just apologise and make up. I wish she were here now my d has estranged and she would have stopped me blaming myself and getting maudlin as I usually think it must be me.

Sorry BlessedArt but I don't understand . On the 4th of February @ 17.21 and 17.52 I posted that we can only post from our own my perspective and that I am speaking only for myself. I have never said or suggested that you need anyone's permission to express your opinion.

Blessed Heart, I do find your post judgemental to OP. Isn't she entitled to her own feelings. She is hurt at not seeing her son and his family. Have you not got children or anyone you love and can you imagine not seeing them? Are you such an insightful person that you watch everything you say and do and are perfect? If you don't think a husband or wife has no influence on their partner you're not living in the real world. I have not experienced it but I know those that have. One size doesn't fit all. I personally find anyone smug who thinks they are perfect and are judgemental not someone I would like to see much of.

Well it rather depends really. Many families get on very well. Some partners aren't what we would wish for our children and other times children meet someone who is good and loving and shows them that their childhood was rather lacking.

Allsorts

Blessed Heart, I do find your post judgemental to OP. Isn't she entitled to her own feelings. She is hurt at not seeing her son and his family. Have you not got children or anyone you love and can you imagine not seeing them? Are you such an insightful person that you watch everything you say and do and are perfect? If you don't think a husband or wife has no influence on their partner you're not living in the real world. I have not experienced it but I know those that have. One size doesn't fit all. I personally find anyone smug who thinks they are perfect and are judgemental not someone I would like to see much of.

Agree Allsorts,
Is very tiring to keep being told that bad things can’t happen to good people, people who may not be saints but are just ordinary people who try their best. That is all we can ever do. And sometimes our best isn’t good enough but there isn’t much we can do about that. As for others influencing/manipulating EACs, that happens as you say, and can cause an estrangement.
Judging parents/grandparents harshly is unfortunately a go-to position for many. With the implied ‘you must have done something bad/wrong’ par for the course.

Allsorts

Blessed Heart, I do find your post judgemental to OP. Isn't she entitled to her own feelings. She is hurt at not seeing her son and his family. Have you not got children or anyone you love and can you imagine not seeing them? Are you such an insightful person that you watch everything you say and do and are perfect? If you don't think a husband or wife has no influence on their partner you're not living in the real world. I have not experienced it but I know those that have. One size doesn't fit all. I personally find anyone smug who thinks they are perfect and are judgemental not someone I would like to see much of.

Allsorts,

I have children and grandchildren, and cohesive relationships with them. I am not responsible for you interpreting my objectivity as thinking my life is perfect. That’s a ‘you’ problem, not a ‘me’ problem. To be honest I am confused as to why you’ve internalized my lack of encouraging negative feelings amongst family members on this forum. I do not post to validate negative speculation about the sons and DILs of original posters. Perhaps you find such approaches acceptable but I do not see commenting in that manner as helping a person heal their rifts. Advice that leans toward healing the relationship, rather than encouraging rifts and scapegoating, is why I post. My advice would be along the same lines if the younger halves of these conflicts posted speculative blame. I do not find instigation in these situations kind. You tend to post judgemental comments about DILs, estranged sons & daughters. I am not sure why you feel a sense of superiority for it, however, that’s your prerogative and I am not here to police your posts.

I do not wish to argue with you and your post was too full of points I never made even if I wanted to. My initial comment was to the OP. Let’s not make this about you feeling aggrieved about my lack of bias and lack of negativity. Peace be unto you. I truly mean that.

It's also very tiresome when that go-to position is reiterated regardless of what we've been told by the OP, and this thread is an example of that Babs.

Yes indeed, despite the DiL actually saying she dislikes her MiL for what sound like rather trivial reasons some are still intent upon turning their attention to what the MiL could have done wrong. Apparently reasons cited by the DiL were being too happy and having a cluttered home, if I remember rightly, so there you have it, things the OP did wrong.
🙄

Oh her house was also too small and she is superficial.