Not fully estranged but gaining depth into what it is

Welp. I should have realized.

Would you be fine with a 15 year old eloping with a 40 year old? Following your logic, the parents would have no right to stop their child's love (when in a same world, it would be the parent's highest responsbility to protect their chile from unsafe adults).

Lets try a thought exercise. Your daughter magically finds out one day that you think she's a total Bitch with a capital B. Would she be justified in cutting you out of her and her families life? What if the tables were turned?

Good luck!

Marriage is a legal entity and has implications. There are laws and predatory considerations. Your example is not a good comparison, at all.

I would say don't worry your little self about that. She will find out when the time is right, from me. I have plans. She has done something I never thought would be possible...turned her own mom against her.

That's amazing to me. She's done what I would have thought was the impossible. Sure, deep down, I still have love buried under......way under.

So here's another intersting thought exercise:

For all my pain and rage, if she came to me one day and said I'm sorry I treated you so badly because of my life going wrong. Would I be justified to say too little too late?

I think I would open my arms and instantly, erase it all. But that's a complete fantasy and I know it so I won't be expecting that. Because I think the husband didn't leave empty handed, he took a huge chunk of her heart and soul. Not enough of that left in her.

But you are not getting my point....I will be cutting her out one day, not too long from now. So it doesn't matter.

Notice how you still focus on how hurt YOU were when she showed exasperation with the spotlight being on you when she was the one wronged (for those reading, her daughter's husband left her for a younger woman and her mom was too self-centered to be an adequate source of comfort. The father is already, previously self-admitted by the OP, to be abusive. So no real parents for this traumatized lady).

Eugenie, my opinion, no one else's. I would not let anyone toxic near my children. Mine were blessed with lovely grandparents, who are so important to children, usually add so much to their lives. In some cases there are grandparents who should be kept away.

StoppableForce

Notice how you still focus on how hurt YOU were when she showed exasperation with the spotlight being on you when she was the one wronged (for those reading, her daughter's husband left her for a younger woman and her mom was too self-centered to be an adequate source of comfort. The father is already, previously self-admitted by the OP, to be abusive. So no real parents for this traumatized lady).

Babbling biddie, what on earth are you talking about now? What spotlight? When she was "wronged", as you put it, I didn't even cry in front of her but once, when she told me. I cried for HER everynight on my own. So how again? All she got from me was support and love. I didn't go crying to her about the situation, at all. Now you are just making up shit.

Hey lady, I was hurt too but in no way shape or form did I show it to her, or even talk about it, although I also felt at the time I lost a second son. I never laid that on her. You daft idiot.

You must have completely failed reading comprehension in school.

Having said that, I know what you are doing..........so I'm totally cool just shutting you down, until I get bored and don't answer anymore. But you come up with wild ideas so it's still interesting....no real parents......insults bounce off me lady. Keep trying.

Allsorts

Eugenie, my opinion, no one else's. I would not let anyone toxic near my children. Mine were blessed with lovely grandparents, who are so important to children, usually add so much to their lives. In some cases there are grandparents who should be kept away.

You know, neither would I dear.

I picked up on your subtle judgement that I am toxic for grandkids,, sure, tell that to the 2 kids that show nothing but excitement and love towards me. And me towards them. They are my world right now, they have saved me from most of my pain.

Haha last time I went to their school for a special event, grandson ran right past his mom (dad was dropping off) and screamed for me, hugging me. Idk, I have suspected maybe jealously plays into this with my daughter; howeve, he was always that way before the split and my daughter seemed delighted he cared for me so much. That changed after the split. See the pattern here......

Me and my daughter:

Before: great relationship, went out regularly together, shared boy stories.

After: bad relationship. Never hang out. Never talk much.

Me and my grandson:

Before, he loved me intensly and my daughter expresssed joy that he did, literally she said it to me one day.

After: daughter told me out of the blue one day when my grandson was trying to get me to go in his room to play, that it makes her sick he is always dominating me.

Do I have to really spell it out?

I had the best daughter, people would even notice and my MIL once said how wonderful it was how close her and I were. Now after her husband left her....the polar opposite of being close.

So now I am bitter and tired of hoping, trying to please her, hoping she still cares. I just want to enjoy grandkids.

And my son. Funny how he is ok with me, funny how when he graduated from college he thanked me for everything I did, from packing meals to driving him when he didn't have a car.

I was so touched and surprised, I cried.

I did the same for my daughter.

Never once did she thank me. She's the entitled one in the family....but ever the defender of her, I even rejected that notion once , when my mom told me that she thought I was spoiling her....and she wasn't talking about with things.

I thought my mom was daft and since my daughter and I were fine, I chalked it up to nonsense.

My mom was right. She's spinning in her grave right now. She was my best advocate and model for me, she always made her kids a priority and that's what I learned but this generation cannot tolerate disappointment without taking it out on their parents. Plain and simple and it's sickening and selfish.

Bump

Apart from one long standing poster, no one agrees with the way you address others, the way you dismiss others opinions but mainly address them on here just because they do not agree with you. The way you minimise your d feelings and your response to Stoppable was at best down right rude, perhaps that is normal talk where you live. The fact your gc ran right past their own mother to get to you was unpleasant, it was a point for you, did you think of your d feelings. Some gp do not deserve to be in a relationship which will undermine their own parents. Our role is support.
The sooner you carry out what you threaten would be best.

I suspect that the one long standing poster you're referring too is me Allsorts; apologies if I'm wrong but if I'm not, I haven't commented either way on how Eugenia has addressed others.

It's a shame the way this thread has deteriorated after what was IMO such a good OP, which up to page 5 had produced some thoughtful and interesting responses.

Then we get 'new' posters whose MO is to insult and goad others, in particular the OP and when it appears to be working, it carries on. Posters words are twisted or misrepresented; including my own.

It's not the first time this has happened on the estrangement forum, and even though I wish it was, it wont be the last.

Allsorts

Apart from one long standing poster, no one agrees with the way you address others, the way you dismiss others opinions but mainly address them on here just because they do not agree with you. The way you minimise your d feelings and your response to Stoppable was at best down right rude, perhaps that is normal talk where you live. The fact your gc ran right past their own mother to get to you was unpleasant, it was a point for you, did you think of your d feelings. Some gp do not deserve to be in a relationship which will undermine their own parents. Our role is support.
The sooner you carry out what you threaten would be best.

You are using an argumentive fallocy called "appeal to numbers." Just because a number of people here agree with you does not make me wrong in any way. I've also experienced a lot of "ad homineum" which are personal insults put in place rather than facts to seem to win an argument. I'm not sure anyone is really reading what I write , but rather waiting in attack mode because I said a potty word. It's pretty pathetic here, some support group, more like the judge and jury of the uninformed.

Oh, and Stoppable started the rudeness.......I won't take insults from people who think I should be a victim of my daughters cruel treatment and still roll out the red carpet for her.....and when you insult others, do not expect kind language in the real world.

And if I minimized my daughters feelings, that's tit for tat. She did far worse than just minimize mine. She bombed them out of existence. That camel had a lot of straws before that last one.

Smileless2012

I suspect that the one long standing poster you're referring too is me Allsorts; apologies if I'm wrong but if I'm not, I haven't commented either way on how Eugenia has addressed others.

It's a shame the way this thread has deteriorated after what was IMO such a good OP, which up to page 5 had produced some thoughtful and interesting responses.

Then we get 'new' posters whose MO is to insult and goad others, in particular the OP and when it appears to be working, it carries on. Posters words are twisted or misrepresented; including my own.

It's not the first time this has happened on the estrangement forum, and even though I wish it was, it wont be the last.

Oh again, very wise and observant. Think it might be time to move on. It was good for a few pages before the trolls came in to try and be hurtful

Luckily, I'm hurt proof at this point, other than my grandkids and son, nobody else really matters. i do have some good friends, but I realize they cannot do much but they are good people on my side.

But, what if I was one of those more vunerable people who could be made to feel so bad by these trolls and virtue signaling wanna be's? People in pain can commit suicide, hurt themselves or others. You all (not you Smileless) should be ashamed of yourselves. REALLY. You may be responsible for killing someone someday. I

I'm disgusted by the thought. Eh, I think I'm just done here now. I'd wish everyone luck, but, I am not a hypocrite.

Except Smileless, your kind and thoughtful responses make me feel you do indeed deserve all the luck in the world. Thank you and take care.

I think it might be time for you to move on too Eugenia.

I hope that things improve with your D and that you can continue to see your GC. Good luck.

Smileless2012

So does being a clinician with a diverse and extensive background dealing with paediatrics and emergency medicine give you in depth knowledge about coercive control BlessedArt?

My knowledge goes way beyond googling and assumptions. I have a BscHons degree in Sociology so am able to research what interests me in an analytical way.

You either haven't read about my situation as much as you claim, or you're misrepresenting what you have read to suit your own agenda but it's not the first time I've experienced this on GN and as I have already told you, whether or not you believe what I say is of no interest to me, so I'm afraid you've wasted your time.

Your degree doesn’t suddenly make you their counselor, Smileless. You are rightfully devastated by the estrangement. I’m sure your educational background has taught you that emotional involvement in a situation prevents objectivity. If any detail posted about what I’ve read from you is incorrect, please feel free to correct it. If your DIL’s parents and your son have told you they believe she is an abuser and you have zero fault in the fall out, forgive my false assumption. I mean that genuinely.

Eugenia,

Your posts are bordering on obsessive and unhinged. If you love your daughter and grandchildren, you should focus on getting well and give them space.

Smileless2012

I suspect that the one long standing poster you're referring too is me Allsorts; apologies if I'm wrong but if I'm not, I haven't commented either way on how Eugenia has addressed others.

It's a shame the way this thread has deteriorated after what was IMO such a good OP, which up to page 5 had produced some thoughtful and interesting responses.

Then we get 'new' posters whose MO is to insult and goad others, in particular the OP and when it appears to be working, it carries on. Posters words are twisted or misrepresented; including my own.

It's not the first time this has happened on the estrangement forum, and even though I wish it was, it wont be the last.

I dont know anything about the first parpagraph.

Last 3 paragraphs. I agree.

I've never claimed to be a counselor BlessedArt, I do wish you'd stop attributing things to me that I haven't claimed or said.

I've never said that our son or our son's wife's parents did or did not believe her to be an abuser. TBH I'm beginning to find your apparent obsession of trying to discredit me rather disturbing.

You know that the so called details you've read about me have not been recounted by you in their entirety, because to do so would cast an entirely different light on what you are trying to portray.

My story has been well documented here on GN over 12 years and I have neither the time nor the inclination to go into all the details again.

Once again BlessedArt I have no interest in what you think of me and whether you believe me nor not. Have you really nothing better to do with your time?

That's good to know fancythat .

I know what my opinion of the way Eugenie words things, let her carry on.

She posted earlier about it being time to move on Allsorts.

Really, well she hasnt.

She appears to have moved on from this thread Allsorts, hasn't posted here since yesterday morning.

That's good Smileless but luckily she has started a new one.