New to forum

I wont say it's a pleasure to have you here Pinkpeony because it's always sad to know that someone else is living with the pain of estrangement, but I am pleased that you've found us because it does take courage to take that first step and share your experience so well done .

We sent cards to our estranged GC on birthdays and at Christmas for approximately 8 years until we no longer felt the need to do so, but not presents.

I disagree BoopBeep that success with therapy hinges on ^an individual's willingness to change^; for me that's victim blaming and a sweeping generalisation that's not helpful.

As has been said therapy isn't for everyone, and sometimes with estrangement situations successful therapy enables the patient to 'let go' and move on with their lives.

It's about doing what helps you, and what helps you this week may not help you next and my experience is that you instinctively know if and when change is needed.

Please look up the definition of the word "therapy" and/or reread my post detailing how therapy isn't necessarily limited to a therapist/councelor.

Therapy - treatment intended to relieve or heal a disorder.

So lets use that definition in your sentence.

"As has been said treatment intended to relieve or heal a disorder isn't for everyone".

I personally don't think that's how one should strive to live, but that is just my opinion.

I know my estranged mother values being never wrong more than fixing her estrangement with me, so you are right that treating a disorder isn't for everyone. At least in my family.

The definition of therapy and specifically talking therapy is for the treatment of emotional and mental problems such as stress, anxiety and depression.

I agree BoopBeep that therapy isn't limited to a counselling session, but it was that form of therapy which was being discussed and that form which isn't for everyone.

I do think that forgiveness is possible regardless of the situation. Instead of reaching out with gestures that might spoil loved ones milestone events when they aren't wanted, perhaps offer some meditation or joint counselling where you are willing to discuss what has gone wrong in the relationship and how to fix it for the future?

Pinkpeony has posted that she believes she needs to accept how things are and let go so mediation (I think that's what you meant Luminance) and joint counselling would not be what's needed in this situation.

Pinkpeony said they were leaving the door open Smileless2012 by sending cards etc so I offered a different way of doing that without sending further contact afterwards and getting no reply.

"We sent cards to our estranged GC on birthdays and at Christmas for approximately 8 years until we no longer felt the need to do so, but not presents."

I'm curious Smiless, if you're capable of admitting that it was a mistake to send cards after they explicitly asked for no contact, given that it accomplished nothing but disrespect.

You don't seem to say anything against it, just that it's something you did (implicitly normalizing this dysfunctional behavior).

No it wasn't a mistake*BoopBeep*, it was something we needed to do for us.

The dysfunctional behaviour in our situation came from our ES who estranged his loving and caring parents, who he'd had a very close relationship with for 27 years until he married and within 2 years of that marriage, had a child.

Yes you're right, she did Luminance.

So lets get this straight.

You put your own needs (the need to continue contact) above your child's needs (the need to separate from you).

Going forward, replace "estranged parent" with "stalker ex" to get a sense if an action is ok or not.

"I explicitly cut contact with my ex, telling them I never want to see or hear from them again, but they keep sending me cards and gifts on special occasions like my birthday. They even knew when and where I do my groceries and publicly ambushed me there. Having this unwanted contact continue is only causing me anxiety and distress!"

What would you say/feel if a friend (or even your own child) came to you with this problem?

Do you even care that your continued contact would upset your estranged child? Or were you too focused on your own needs to ever consider that possibility?

I'm not here to justify our actions to you BoopBeep and have no intentions of doing so.

The 'problem' in your response to me has nothing whatsoever to do with our situation and is totally irrelevant.

"The 'problem' in your response to me has nothing whatsoever to do with our situation and is totally irrelevant."

How so? Elucidate it for me.

How are they so different that they are apples to oranges.

It should be obvious BoopBeep.

No, it's not obvious. Unless you believe that being a person's parent entitles them to special privileges over that person (even well into adulthood).

Which in that case, we will have to agree to disagree because our fundamental values are polar opposites.

Can you at least give your son some credit for his decision to estrange from you?

Or did you raise such a spineless, brainless individual that would throw away a set of loving and caring parents simply because their spouse wished it?

Or was the spouse such a mighty vixen that no-one's son could stand a chance against her wily woes?

BoopBeep

Can you at least give your son some credit for his decision to estrange from you?

Or did you raise such a spineless, brainless individual that would throw away a set of loving and caring parents simply because their spouse wished it?

Or was the spouse such a mighty vixen that no-one's son could stand a chance against her wily woes?

Everyone, estranged or estranger, has their reasons for what they do.

Strangers on the net, not knowing the whole circumstances, and then pontificating anyway, helps no one.

I wouldn't be impertinent enough to judge your values BoopBeep I don't know you, but of course our perspectives differ because you estranged an abusive mother and we are loving and decent parents who have been estranged.

BoopBeep Pinkpeony came here for support because she was feeling very alone. Are you deliberately trying to put her off posting again? Because that is what will happen if you continue to monopolise the thread to attack estranged parents.
She asked for posters to "be kind" - you are doing the opposite.

I'm just trying to understand the justifications for (what I believe to be) indefensibly dysfunctional behavior.

"we are loving and decent parents who have been estranged."

It's funny, if you asked my "abusive mother" she would say the same exact thing nearly verbatim. Funnily enough, she also could never admit any fault and continued sending me cards after I asked for no more contact. Coincidence or not, both of you are also estranged from your only child.

I think I'm starting to notice a pattern here.

By all means, ignore what I have to say and continue with your own devices.

Send those unwanted cards and gifts! Turn that 1% chance of reconciliation into a nice and neat 0%!

Whatever helps YOU sleep at night!

Wow what a very polarised, cold and critical view you express BoPeep.
For many, the continued sending of gifts on special occasion is an attempt to keep the door open. Many eventually sadly realise it’s hopeless.

And if you spoke to our ES he'd probably say the same as you BoopBeep but what does that prove? You are not our ES so I will not judge you or any EAC based on his behaviour.

It would be far more beneficial to any EP's here, if you didn't judge us based on your mother's behaviour.

Our ES isn't our only child, we continue to have a close and loving relationship with his brother.

Iam64

Wow what a very polarised, cold and critical view you express BoPeep.
For many, the continued sending of gifts on special occasion is an attempt to keep the door open. Many eventually sadly realise it’s hopeless.

This is exactly what I mean when I say dysfunctional.

Does not follow logic.

You send gifts to keep the door open, because otherwise it would be closed for you?

Do you believe a child who wishes to reconcile is unable to do so if they didn't receive any gifts or cards from their estranged parent?

If so, why do you believe that? Are you simply unaware of the fact that the door is always open in an estrangement if one party wishes it to be?

Those are mainly rhetorical questions, because I understand this line of thinking is simply a dysfunctional distortion that shields you from the reality, that you're sending those unwanted card because you selfishly prioritize your own needs over your child's.

Which I can promise you is a much more common theme of children estranging from their parent than a willy spouse, devious therapist, or some random mental illness/drug addiction.

Iam64

Wow what a very polarised, cold and critical view you express BoPeep.
For many, the continued sending of gifts on special occasion is an attempt to keep the door open. Many eventually sadly realise it’s hopeless.

Being devil's advocate[i hate that phrase but cant think of a better one right now], I think BoPeep is trying to say that, far from "an attempt to keep the door open", in reality it can be putting your wishes and feelings onto another, regardless of how it would be received.

Yes I understand that fancythat. Polarised, hostile responses to this desperately sad situation don’t add much positive to the discussion. EAC and EP’s both are in desperately sad places.