New to forum

It's a useful phrase though isn't it fancythat and to play devil's advocate putting your wishes and feelings onto another, regardless of how it would be received can be said of those who decide to estrange.

You're right Iam and there's no need to be hostile toward anyone whose obviously hurting.

To quote my previous response to Pink

"I know you're coming from a good place in your heart by sending them, but please understand that it's highly disrespectful since you're blatantly disregarding their wish for No Contact. Presents and such are contact, and the person would prefer to not receive them.

If I may make a suggestion. Get the gifts, but instead of sending them, store them in a secure place. So that if you ever did happen to reconnect, you can give them the gifts and still demonstrate that you have been thinking of them this entire time."

I don't know how I can present uncomfortable truths any gentler.

I understand it may be hard to tell the difference between discomfort and hostility, since both can feel equally unsettling on an emotional level.

But when users (inadvertently or not) encourage dysfunctional behaviors that only strengthen estrangements, than I feel an obligation to call it out and correct it.

I know misery loves company, but you shouldn't go so far as to lead people down the wrong path just for them to join your ranks.

There's a lot more people who see these posts than just the people posting, so I hope that my words reached someone in a desperately sad place and influenced them towards a more healthy, productive, functional path.

"putting your wishes and feelings onto another, regardless of how it would be received can be said of those who decide to estrange."

This is an extremely EXTREMELY dangerous line of thinking!

As tempting as it is, don't fall down this path of least resistance. Please.

This is a key marker of emotional enmeshment, where a parent can’t see their child as a separate individual, and instead expects them to manage the parent’s emotions. It shows a clear lack of emotional maturity and healthy boundaries.

These are exactly the kind of dysfunctions I'm talking about that need to be called out, understood and culled (for lack of a better term).

I think it goes without saying, but my "abusive mother" thinks of estrangement exactly the same way. Coincidentally or not.

The correct way forward, as painful and uncomfortable it may be, would be to acknowledge that estrangement (more often than not) is a child's last resort after what has been a lifelong effort (for them) to have a functional relationship with their life givers.

I believe the polarizing disconnect comes from opposite values that stem from generational divides.

I seem to value individuality, while others seem to value familial obligations more.

Both may seem valid on first glance, but I firmly believe that familial obligations had their time and place (when life was much harsher and family was critical for survival), but now that we can afford to, we should all be prioritizing individual freedoms over familial obligations (where you must stay with thy mother and father. No matter what, except for if they murder you; your only ticket to freedom from them).

^
I seem to value individuality, while others seem to value familial obligations more.^

Ooh. I cant say I agree with that.
I would write more but conscious that PinkPeony1 started the thread.

If you wanted to discuss the quote further, I would be happy to discuss it with you, if you chose to start another thread yourself.

Boobpeep, your posts are critical and extremely unkind and I can quite see why you would want to estrange. Fortunately many on here, including the poster have feelings, no one doubts that once you have raised your children they should fly the nest and make a life of their own, however we need contact with each other, that doesn't mean control of them as you interpret it. Pink peony misses her child and you have no empathy in you it seems. Some children do grow up like you and unfortunately for many of us it takes time to recognise. Took me years but I didn't bother her as you say, I let her go but the pain was awful. I haven't that same pain anymore. It takes time for the rose tinted spectacles to come off.
Your heart will mend round that hole Pink, who knows what the future might bring, concentrate on those you do have, they want you, lots haven't anyone, you have not closed doors, leave them open knowing she is free to return if she feels ready.

"however we need contact with each other, that doesn't mean control of them as you interpret it."

I don't know if you simply skimmed my posts or not, but no where did I say that sending unwanted contact/gifts/cards was a form of "control". I said it's a form of disrespect and selfishness where you prioritize your own needs over your child's.

"Pink peony misses her child and you have no empathy in you it seems."

Once again, I feel like you skimmed or just entirely skip entire posts of mine. No where was I critical of Pink. If she misses her child so much, than surely she would want as big of a chance at reconciliation as possible. Sending unwanted contact will only achieve the opposite of that. It may soothe you in the moment, but it's dysfunctional and only ensures the exact opposite of what you want).

"Some children do grow up like you"

This is false. Children like me don't get to grow up because they usually end up killing themselves from the daily barrage of non-stop severe abuse and trauma. I did come close, and despite my mother's (expressed) wishes, I'm still here; but I'm an exception, not the rule.

You accuse me of lacking empathy, but it seems to be a projection of yours because you clearly lack empathy to say imply such an obtuse notion that I simply "grew up" to estrange from my parents and that I have no "feelings".

Seesh.

Cam I ask people on this thread please, or others, what is the etiquette on threads like this?
I can still feel like a bit of a newbie on here sometimes.

If an op has stopped writing, should others carry on anyway?

I sometimes hear, on GN threads in general, "it is the op's thread", and others write "an op does not own a thread".

Well the OP mentioned sending unwanted contact.

Some realize how detrimental it would be (to both her & and the harassed child), while some think it's not detrimental and it's simply what they "need to do for themselves".

The OP has stopped posting recently, but unless they explicitly say they've stopped posting, than you can assume they may come back to post at any time.

Anecdotally speaking, on this forum alone.

How many stories of reconciliation occur because the estranged parent continued sending contact, despite the estrangee's wishes?

&

How many stories of reconciliation occur when the parent swallowed their ego, ate some humble pie and genuinely listened to what their children were saying?

Just a thought.

BoopBeep

I believe the polarizing disconnect comes from opposite values that stem from generational divides.

I seem to value individuality, while others seem to value familial obligations more.

Both may seem valid on first glance, but I firmly believe that familial obligations had their time and place (when life was much harsher and family was critical for survival), but now that we can afford to, we should all be prioritizing individual freedoms over familial obligations (where you must stay with thy mother and father. No matter what, except for if they murder you; your only ticket to freedom from them).

Would you mind if I started a new thread with this post as the start of it?

Nothing to do with Pinkpeony1

I just think the post has some ideas that others as well as myself may like to contribute to.
Starting it in Chat or somewhere.

fancythat

BoopBeep

I believe the polarizing disconnect comes from opposite values that stem from generational divides.

I seem to value individuality, while others seem to value familial obligations more.

Both may seem valid on first glance, but I firmly believe that familial obligations had their time and place (when life was much harsher and family was critical for survival), but now that we can afford to, we should all be prioritizing individual freedoms over familial obligations (where you must stay with thy mother and father. No matter what, except for if they murder you; your only ticket to freedom from them).

Would you mind if I started a new thread with this post as the start of it?

Nothing to do with Pinkpeony1

I just think the post has some ideas that others as well as myself may like to contribute to.
Starting it in Chat or somewhere.

I do not mind.

Threads often continue when the OP has stopped posting fancythat. It is a shame though when someone like Pinkpeony, who is clearly struggling to come to terms with her estrangement, may well have been put off because of some of the responses here.

They may be in response to others and not her directly, but unnecessary unpleasantness and negative generalisations about EP's do often deter a new poster from coming back.

Occasionally an OP will try to dictate what can and cannot be said, and who can and cannot join in the conversation because they started the thread. That's when you'll see a post telling the OP that they 'don't own a thread'.

Your posts are critical and extremely unkind BoopBeep, because you're projecting your understandable pain and anger onto EP's on this forum, but not all EP's are abusive and it would be beneficial if you took that on board.

" because you're projecting your understandable pain and anger onto EP's on this forum"

This is a minimization of my argument, a strawman if you will.

I'm not simply projecting my lived experience onto strangers.

I'm witnessing (and calling out) the same, unique mindsets as those who have abused me before. It doesn't necessarily make you abusive (and I never explicitly said you're abusive), but thanks to my lived experience, I know for a fact that it's not a healthy or functional way to think or go about life.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Can we just agree on a baseline understanding that continuing to send unwanted contact is wrong? No matter how good your intentions are.

Even if you're their parent, their kid, or the pope themself.

I’m so sorry @Pinkpeony1 you came here for support on your situation and it turns into a whole page of bickering.

I have contributed to the other thread created which is a pure discussion and more suitable.

Thank you Hydrangea it's always good to know that someone's been helped by this forum .

Pinkpeony1

Thanks all
Sorry could not actually face looking at this yesterday _ guess that shows how badly its affected me and how this subject of estrangement can make you feel alone
Thanks for all the advice _ i have tried some couselling but although it probably is helpful for some
I know I need to let go although its been absolutely no contact for a while its pretty much been limited contact and not welcome since day 1 so over 2 years

Smile less ( bless you ) and some others x I think you really got my situation sorry as probably from your own experiences. but waiting, hoping , praying everyday for 2 years for a miracle is what has broken me
I will leave the door open and still send presents on birthdays, Christmas etc but realistically expect nothing and then up to them if they want to reconnect

Joining here for me was a big step as I am think its finally acceptance so thanks for having me
I have read a lot on types of therapy and for me believe the theory of acceptance and letting go is right as my emotional pain was literally drowning me from doing anything else
It's not easy and I don't know if I can do it but my instincts tell me to try
Knowing i am not alone in this is helpful, thank you all.

Some estrangements, not all, will be permanent, so I think (as with bereavement) you need to accept how it is, stop fighting it, and just make the best of your life. 💐

Only a fool would pretend it’s easy - it’s not - but one day at a time does eventually heal things.

Life can sometimes be a real battle - not everyone wants or needs counselling. We all find our own way. 😉

Best wishes 💐

It's so hard DL but for us, we only began to let go when we looked at our estrangement as permanent. It wasn't a question of 'leaving the door open' or closing it but accepting that our son would no longer be in our lives and neither would our GC.

The NYT today has a column on the tendency of today's young adults to blame their parents unfairly. I read it, sadly nodding. I am not truly estranged, but I certainly do not have the relationship I had hoped for. *I joined for the same reason. For support and fun. Haven't found much of either. But it's interesting. Welcome!

NanaMaryNH

The NYT today has a column on the tendency of today's young adults to blame their parents unfairly. I read it, sadly nodding. I am not truly estranged, but I certainly do not have the relationship I had hoped for. *I joined for the same reason. For support and fun. Haven't found much of either. But it's interesting. Welcome!

I would recommend leaving those articles alone. They just foster bad feeling and fill the head with assumptions rather than what truly leads to a better relationship. The better course is always to ask the child what their idea of a better relationship would be and then discuss whether that suits you. All too often we hear that an adult child laid out boundaries and the parent chose not to respect them. In that case, who truly ended the relationship by making a choice?