New to forum

"In that case, who truly ended the relationship by making a choice?"

The child obviously, for laying out that boundary in the first place.

But in all seriousness. When reading anything, you should always view with a critical lens.

NYT is a part of a dying, legacy media. Thus, those that are left reading it tend to be much older. Therefore, they have a monetary incentive to publish articles that appeal to their bases biases.

I wouldn't treat their articles as gospel, especially on such a subjective topic.

Who is deciding what is unfair and what is not?

Articles and books that you can identify with can be helpful as you realise that you are not alone NanaMary and what you're experiencing has been experienced by others.

When there are problems or total estrangement it can be difficult to talk about it because, and this was the case for us, you feel embarrassed and ashamed and worry that if you do open up, you'll be judged.

While your relationship continues with your AC there's always the possibility that things will improve and I hope that this will be the case for you .

Smileless2012 rather depends who they are written by. Now we're you to tell me a family therapist wrote an article about how to maintain healthy adult/child relationships, I might have a look. Were you to tell me a person emotionally embroiled in a painful estrangement or family issues wrote a book about how wonderful whoever it is was and how that generation is all whatever the generalisation might be, you would have to forgive a laugh. Perhaps a book or article about personal experience and personal growth after estrangement might be productive but as you and I both know, sweeping generalisations help no one here or anywhere else.

"While your relationship continues with your AC there's always the possibility that things will improve and I hope that this will be the case for you".

I like how the delicate wording subtly frames the familial strife as something out-of-their control.

Since it's easier to avoid accountability when the issue is seen as a random misfortune.

Your relationship with your child is completely out of your hands, so all you can realistically do is just hope for the best.

This way of thinking is definitely much easier (than admitting fault), but is it the right way of thinking?

Well done BoopBeep for monopolizing PinkPeony1’s thread.
You have purposely diverted attention from PinkPeony1’s opening thoughts towards your own situation. Not cool.

Instead of taking over another posters thread, start your own.

Welcome PinkPeony this Board gives wonderful support by pretty much all posters for those in your situation, I wish you well.

Whatever. Your indignation means nothing to me.

There are real lives outside of those just posting here.

If I can save someone from dealing with further harassment by dissuading an estranged person from dysfunctional behavior, I'm going to do it.

Someone has taken one of BoopBeep’s comments from this thread to start a spinoff thread with it, entitled “Family versus individuality”. So a double dose for those interested in that particular topic.

Once again a new poster or let me say an old poster under a different name, has taken over this thread withe unpleasantness. She will go the way her other posts did eventually. I replied not realising at first which is just what they want. so no more input from me. I will look in a week and she should be gone, if not the week after.

Yes, I think so too.

Allsorts it's always a choice isn't it? We all can decide not to receive things from others. I tend to feel that very sensible people go along those lines and think "I do not receive that" and simply move on with their day. If something doesn't apply to me, I choose not to receive it. If it does apply I may listen but otherwise no, that's not for me, it can be let go and moved past.

Delila

Someone has taken one of BoopBeep’s comments from this thread to start a spinoff thread with it, entitled “Family versus individuality”. So a double dose for those interested in that particular topic.

It would be perfect if BoopBeep would see fit to follow the new thread and get off this one! A more opinionated, intrusive, unfeeling and arrogant poster I have yet to meet on here. She has totally swamped PinkPeony1’s post and has probably put her off Gransnet for life!
It’s a shame we can’t shut someone up when they are being insufferable!
Apologies PinkPeony1. The usual posters on here ARE listening to you and, given the chance by posters who love the sound of their own voices, we will respond!

denbylover

Well done BoopBeep for monopolizing PinkPeony1’s thread.
You have purposely diverted attention from PinkPeony1’s opening thoughts towards your own situation. Not cool.

Instead of taking over another posters thread, start your own.

Welcome PinkPeony this Board gives wonderful support by pretty much all posters for those in your situation, I wish you well.

Well said!

BoopBeep

"In that case, who truly ended the relationship by making a choice?"

The child obviously, for laying out that boundary in the first place.

But in all seriousness. When reading anything, you should always view with a critical lens.

NYT is a part of a dying, legacy media. Thus, those that are left reading it tend to be much older. Therefore, they have a monetary incentive to publish articles that appeal to their bases biases.

I wouldn't treat their articles as gospel, especially on such a subjective topic.

Who is deciding what is unfair and what is not?

Maybe it’s me but I didn’t understand a word of the above reply!

Allsorts

Once again a new poster or let me say an old poster under a different name, has taken over this thread withe unpleasantness. She will go the way her other posts did eventually. I replied not realising at first which is just what they want. so no more input from me. I will look in a week and she should be gone, if not the week after.

Let’s hope so! She’s insufferable!

The internet is a wonderful tool that was ruined by tech billionaires.

Young people are worse off not because of the internet but because of billionaires unfettered control over the internet.

The same will apply to AI. A wonderful tool that could have made life so much better for everyone will instead ruin entire generations (because billionaires will end up exploiting it only for themselves).

Personally, if my only input was my mother and I didn't have Google growing up, I would be completely screwed as a human.

Wrong thread

I've learned from a very young age that toxic people don't take kindly to having their dysfunctions called out. Nothing constructive can ever be communicated with them because they confuse uncomfortable truths with hostility (since it takes maturity to be able to differentiate the nuanced feeling).

Immature people hear uncomfortable statements, feel bad inside, then think they're being attacked, then promptly shut it down.

Either by closing their ears and going lalala or hurling insults at the person (they perceive to be) "attacking" them.

I take back that your indignation means nothing to me. It actually means a whole great deal of pride to me to be hated by bad people.

I was the only one encouraging Pink to do the healthiest thing, because I genuinely care about her and her child.

Continuing to send cards and gifts will only damage her chances at reconciliation and damage her child's peace. I even offered a viable alternative outlet for her feelings because I understand how difficult her (deserved or not) position is.

While others had made the same mistake prior and aren't mature enough to admit it was a mistake. So instead they double down on the terrible advice so that they can continue to pretend that they're not dysfunctional, toxic people.

Luminance has a point. If what I'm saying is completely unfounded and baseless, a healthy mature person can pick up what I'm putting down without getting upset and crying about what was said.

Good for you Boopbeep. I admire your strength of character. Sometimes we just have to make our own family with the friends we love. Saying no to abuse is admirable and correct.

I agree with BoopBeep, no presents, no cards, i am an estranged child, though my circumstances are no where near as painful as BoopBeeps, I think the only hope is to step right back, it wouldn’t have worked for me, because my mind was made up. But every time she hassled my husband, or children and even grandchildren about me, I hardened my heart a bit more.
I’m sure the temptation is to keep trying, but I think your best hope is to withdraw with dignity, I’m not saying that will work, but the opposite will just annoy.

I disagree Luminance. It doesn't just depend who has written a book or an article and whether or not they have any formal training as a family therapist for example. It's whether or not what you've read 'speaks' to you personally.

For me, 3 books by the same author helped me immensely and I was made aware of her first book because it was shared here on GN. My first real source of help and support was found here on GN. The original thread 'cut out of their lives' which was started by an estranged mother was a life saver, and I know that over the years many have found subsequent support threads equally beneficial and like me, were emotionally and mentally 'saved'.

It's a shame for the OP denbylover. I'm sure if the first thread I ever posted on had been monopolised in this way, I'd have been put off too, but hopefully Pinkpeony is still reading because there have been some kind and thoughtful responses.

If you are Pinkpeony and you haven't done so already, maybe take a look at the support thread where thankfully this happens very rarely.

I understand the argument against sending cards and gifts Sara but as an EP I also understand the need for some to try and keep a link to their EAC and/or GC, regardless of how tenuous.

For a time we needed that tenuous link to our only GC so that's what we did.

Boopeep, no father you mention its all your mother's fault, Google is responsible for your views. I rest my case, except this an example of too much time looking at a screen

BoopBeep

I've learned from a very young age that toxic people don't take kindly to having their dysfunctions called out. Nothing constructive can ever be communicated with them because they confuse uncomfortable truths with hostility (since it takes maturity to be able to differentiate the nuanced feeling).

Immature people hear uncomfortable statements, feel bad inside, then think they're being attacked, then promptly shut it down.

Either by closing their ears and going lalala or hurling insults at the person (they perceive to be) "attacking" them.

I take back that your indignation means nothing to me. It actually means a whole great deal of pride to me to be hated by bad people.

I was the only one encouraging Pink to do the healthiest thing, because I genuinely care about her and her child.

Continuing to send cards and gifts will only damage her chances at reconciliation and damage her child's peace. I even offered a viable alternative outlet for her feelings because I understand how difficult her (deserved or not) position is.

While others had made the same mistake prior and aren't mature enough to admit it was a mistake. So instead they double down on the terrible advice so that they can continue to pretend that they're not dysfunctional, toxic people.

Luminance has a point. If what I'm saying is completely unfounded and baseless, a healthy mature person can pick up what I'm putting down without getting upset and crying about what was said.

Much like my younger adult stepchildren did then. . They really hated their dysfunctions called out. 🤷‍♀️

Immature behaviour and defensive attitudes can affect people of any age, and being younger and reared on Google info (🙄) gives you no more wisdom or insight than anyone else on here.

I can understand the appeal Smileless2012 being whether something "speaks" to you personally. However, life is full of mistakes and hard lessons. If we go along the route of seeking out nothing that does not agree with us there is little room for understanding and growth. Instead I would recommend a back to the drawing board approach and to learn about healthy relationships instead. The problems in relationships are least easily solved by those inside it. Support groups in and of themselves are wonderful things of course and even can be considered group counselling but those supportive groups should always be ones that can listen to where you acknowledge mistakes and talk of educating yourself on how a relationship is when healthy. I must admit to you I would be rather disinclined to trust someone who could not listen to someone on a journey of putting right their own mistakes and would argue against them or try to convince them otherwise, they did nothing wrong. Health is truly listening to others needs amd perspectives and trying to understand them, not blindly arguing for arguments sake or because that is not how we did it.

Pinkpeony1 welcome, & I shall ignore all the posts which don’t address your issue……
I’m so sorry that you are experiencing estrangement, it is indeed a heartbreaking situation to be in. Right from the outset of ours, my husband said that we needed to be patient and “play the long game”, and although I didn’t want to believe it at the time, he was absolutely right.
For your own mental health, I would suggest that you take a break from trying to re-establish contact with your child, as the constant knock-backs and rejections are so hard to bear. We are now very happily reunited and that happened when we took the time to step back, stop trying so hard, and decided to take advice and work on any aspects of ourselves & our personalities which could have contributed to the situation.
Have faith, I’m sure it will happen xx

Allsorts

Boopeep, no father you mention its all your mother's fault, Google is responsible for your views. I rest my case, except this an example of too much time looking at a screen

What is a Single Mother.

If you must know, they divorced before I was 1 and remarried shortly after, but kept moving me for selfish reasons and even to dodge authorities (her abuse was so severe you would need to be blind and deaf not to notice) while her new husband slaved away at our home (base). Effectively functioning only as a wallet for me (and occasionally aiding and abetting her abuse, the few times he was present in the same room as me).

But by and large I was under only my mother's care. Her (toxic) mom spent way more time and had much more influence than her new husband ever did.

Your ignorance is showing.