Support and friendship for those whose lives have been affected by estrangement.

I do remember the first time I posted Smiles and of your first post too. I actually kept the early years of GN as a sort of diary. When I moved, I chucked it all out, one copy I didn't get round to chucking and now I'm glad I didn't as I would like my estGC to read it and find out what was taken from them. I cannot read it though. I remember my first sentence though; I feel like I've fallen into a black hole of despair.

Whiff terrible of your son to cancel your Xmas day visit to them on Xmas eve, it must have been upsetting for you. I remember a story of a mum that was having her son & family to Xmas dinner, cooked all the food, all the presents under the tree and they didn't turn up! She saw a pic of them having their Xmas dinner as happy as could be on FB. Now that wicked to the extreme!

Morning all

Funny my 2nd hygienist app. is on the 23rd same as you Smiles. Put my washing on to dry yesterday and it's come out creased to hell, ironed my change of bedding, now I have to iron this newly washed one as well . I remember when I did have a tumble dryer that the clothes came out crease free and ready to put away. My DD has her tumble dryer in her garage, no room in my shed for one. I do have a lobby off the kitchen where I could possible put one.

What I find a little awkward is when people ask me how many children I have, I say two, they say how wonderful, one of each and I answer yes, change the subject. However, today was one of those odd days, doesn't happen often, when each grandchild sent me a message, I feel lucky as I never thought that day would never come. I like Yoga have been so long estranged I have made a different life and are happy with it, sometimes a glitch but soon passes.
All that talk of deep teeth cleaning makes me reach for the smelling salts , I dread having my teeth cleaned, not had deep clean or an air clean just a scale and polish when advised to, so painful I have sensitive gums, dentist says I am lucky they don't need it very often, however I wish I could avoid it. I go after Christmas and fingers crossed I don't need anything done. Different subject, can anyone tell me why I have gone off chocolate? Very odd.

Strugglingmum glad you found this thread. Not because of your heart break but because we all know what you are going through and this thread about support,advice if you want ,place for you to say what you want without being judge and most importantly friendship. Plus we protect eachother from attack from trolls and the like .
You may not think it you have shown courage writing about your son . It took me months of PMs to Smiles before I could post on this thread. So glad I did.

Christmas is portrait as happy family time when everyone gets together . Which it can be when your children are young but if like my 2 once teenagers they sent time in their rooms . Watching TV or when they had mobile phones taking to friends.

Christmas isn't happy families as most family arguments flair up at Christmas time especially if you have visitors staying . That why when we got married decide to have Christmas day to ourselves. And went to parents alternate boxing day and 27th and stuck to that once we had the children.

Looking back my last Christmas with my son and family. The cracks where there it was supposed to be my Christmas day with them but my sin phoned on 23rd said they couldn't have me Christmas day as he would be to tired after working Christmas eve . Which I knew was a lie . Said they would have me boxing day. My daughter hit the roof . Don't know but it would surprise me if she hadn't told her brother what she thought of him .

I never pried into their lives once the where 16. My husband and decided that and I stuck to it after he died. Son phoned Christmas eve saying they would come to me boxing day and bring all the food and he would cook. Played with my grandson while my daughter in law sat in the armchair and crochet only talked to me if I asked a question.

When my husband was alive if his parents kicked off or there behaviour vile we walked out . Looking back I wish I had told my daughter in law if that's what she was going to do all day they then after lunch they best go home. And to honest I wish now the estrangement had happened then . At least I would have had my say .

To me Christmas has never been the same since my husband died as it was his favourite time of the year . Now it's just a day . Yes my daughter or son in law pick me up mid morning but home between 6-7 . I like being home . They only live 5-10 mins away depending on traffic .

This year is the first Christmas I haven't thought about what my son's boys my 3 grandson's would like . We are strangers . And I am ok with that as the oldest 2 where 4&2 last time I saw them ,now 9,7&5.

I am lucky I see my other 2 grandsons nearly 8 &5. My daughter laughs we have a better social life than she does.

Estrangement isn't just for Christmas but all year round . It takes everyone different times to come to terms with it and to stop it hurting you . Your estrangement is very new and raw . Like it is for Debbie . But you will get through it . But the most important thing for you and all estranged parents and grandparents your child or children they choose this not you . They choose to decide they want nothing to do with you . You didn't abandon them .

Some families have got together again not many but some have. But for me I would rather things stay as they are . I still love my son and grandsons even the one I don't know . But I can never forgive or forget what my son and daughter in law put me through.

We're usually rattling on about something aren't we Yogin because one of the best things about this thread for me, is that we show that life does go on and in those darkest times when we were first estranged, I don't think any of us believed that it could.

Do you remember when we first met here on GN? It was new for everyone and none of us believed we could ever find peace and happiness again.

Like you, there was a time when our estrangement was the only thing we talked about with one another, friends and family but that rarely happens now apart from with Mr. S.

I'm so pleased that when we moved here I bought my large tumble dryer with me. I nearly didn't because like yours, my washer dryer is crap when it comes to drying which is why I'd never have bought one but ours came with the lodge.

It literally takes ages to get anything dry so even though it's a hassle if the weather's bad to go the the dryer in the shed, I wouldn't be without it.

So pleased your hygienist appointment went well. I have a check up and hygiene appointment on the 23rd of this month , not my idea of an early Christmas present.

I can't have an 'Airflow' clean so it's always a manual one for me.

Going out for lunch today and while I'm having my hair done and then looking for some extra treats for Mr. S. for Christmas, he'll do a bit more work on our shop unit.

We have a potential tenant coming at 2.00 pm to have a look so fingers crossed.

Morning all

Lovely and sunny, wonder if I can put my washing on the line . I have one of those washer dryers, mine is crap, it doesn't seem to dry properly and really creases the cloths. I've had an engineer out twice so far. My DD has the same problems with hers but has just got a tumble dryer and says it's heaven. I really envy her. It's the room for 2 machines that's the issue.

Thank you Smiles re the hygienist. I took 2 Ibuprofen and it must have done the trick as it wasn't anything as bad as I thought it would be, but I need a second app in 10 days' time and then I can have the 'Airflow' cleaning. Costing a small fortune! I'm the opposite to you Debbie, I much prefer to go to the hygienist than the dentist. Nice app. on Friday; having a manicure in the lovely Roslin Health retreat , I'm using up a gift card that is about to expire.

I know the newly estranged are looking at my post and asking what am I rattling on about, but after 13yrs of estrangement I can know talk about other things. I remember when first estranged I spoke of nothing else when having coffee with friends and must have really burnt their ears off. Never speak of it now. Yes, Xmas time does dredge up all the emotions but it's easier to deal with now, after all these years. So be assured it will get easier for you too, above that I hope you are reunited, maybe Xmas time will open their hearts to you. Good luck xx

Struggling mum, your son is young, he knows you love him and hopefully in the future will reconnect. I hope you have other people in your life who care. It's so hard I know. It's been so long for me and my husband died at Christmas long ago but I now enjoy my life and the people and family I do have.,Many do reunite. Too late for me though, I do not know her.

Strugglingmum86

First Christmas estranged from my 19yr old son, absolutely broken! I just want to go to sleep and wake up after new year. Christmas used to be my favourite time of year and this year I just can’t stand it.

I'm so sorry strugglingmum. Keep coming to this thread; having others to talk to will maybe help a bit. 💐

Strugglingmum86 I feel your pain, this is my second year of being estranged from my daughter and granddaughters. It hurts so much doesn't it. I struggled yesterday particularly and went to an exercise class which usually cheers me up, but nothing cheered me up yesterday. I just seem to have days when it overwhelms me, and more of them at Christmastime, then there are other days when I can be cheerful and enjoy things. So try to keep going and keep busy.
I haven't given up hope of reconciliation yet but wonder if if should let it go for my own sanity.
Christmas has never been my favourite time of year, but this year we have decorated the house a lot and have invited my brother and his family fir Christmas this year, which I"m looking forward to. I would have spent it with my daughter and grandaughters but intend to have fun with my brother's family instead. Maybe it will be the new normal. The angry part of me wants my ED to know that we will all be having a nice time without her, but I still wish I was spending it with them obviously.
I will be thinking of all of you on here this Christmas but hope you find a way to have a nice time.
Re the hygienist, I don't go any more after I got a mouth ulcer from a visit so I take extra care of cleaning my teeth so the dentist agrees I don't need to go. It's worth the effort to save on pain and money😂

Oh Strugglingmum, my heart goes out to you. It's the worse time of the year for those of us who are estranged but we're here for you .

First Christmas estranged from my 19yr old son, absolutely broken! I just want to go to sleep and wake up after new year. Christmas used to be my favourite time of year and this year I just can’t stand it.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who dreads a visit to the Hygienist Yogin.

We've re registered with the dentist we used to have before we moved, he's lovely and I was thrilled when I knew he'd be our dentist again but of course it meant a new hygienist but thankfully she's really good.

I'll be thinking of you x

Morning all

Just a quicky as I have a busy day: walk Joey, Lidl shopping, lunch, then Hygienist, which I'm dreading and have the pain killers at the ready

Smiles I much prefer my Xmas dinner cooked at home. I have been out on Xmas day twice; once in London and once here in the Palace Hotel on the seafront, both very nice but not the same as being at home, I think.

Morning everyone, hope you're all doing OK and are busy with any Christmas preparations you may have to do. Our decs went up last weekend and the outside ones; tree, stag and lights are clearly visible from the barrier at the entrance to our section of the site .

Mr. S. has had a lot of compliments so he's feeling rather pleased with himself.

Please don't beat yourself up Debbie, our ungrateful and unfeeling AC are doing that with no help from us. Your D should, and I suspect does know that anything you've said that has inadvertently upset your GD was not said to intentionally cause distress.

What loving GM would do that?

I continue to feel that your D is looking for reasons to distance herself and her children from you, and this is another one. It is as you say so easy to slip up, so much so that your D is 'guilty' of it too so rather than making the situation worse, for your GD's sake these slip ups should be sensitively and calmly explained to her rather than increasing her anxiety that they've been said deliberately.

It is a relief Sparkly when we realise that our EAC are no longer on our minds every minute of every day. For me, it came as a bit of a shock when I realised that several days had gone by and I hadn't thought of our ES at all. I even felt guilty to begin with, until I realised what a blessing it is.

Your living room looks lovely and I do love hearing about your cats as I miss Dylan terribly, and still find my self singing to him from time to time .

That must have been a heart stopping moment when you saw her car Allsorts and something that we can't begin to plan for. The last time that happened to us which was years ago, I actually experienced the 'fight or flight' reaction; pounding heart and adrenaline rushing through every part of my body.

Glad you enjoyed Faulty Towers Yogin. I don't think I ever 'got it' as it never made me laugh, rather like 'Father Ted' which Mr. S. and DS still chuckle over.

You are not being selfish love0c, we're all able to recognise that there are many who suffer much more than we do but that doesn't make our suffering any the less.

This is I truly believe is the hardest time of the year. I felt down yesterday as two of our new friends who aren't here all the time like we are went home yesterday, and we wont see them now until Boxing day. They're spending Christmas day with their son and his family.

K asked me what we were doing so I told him we have L and A who like us are here all the time, over on Christmas Eve. He asked if we were going out for dinner 'on the day' and I said no because TBH I prefer the dinner I cook, but also being surrounded by groups of people when it's just the two of us, would be a bit like us rubbing salt into the wound.

It will be the 13th anniversary of our estrangement on Christmas Eve and we're doing what we've done our best to do for the last 13 years; throwing ourselves into all things Christmas because I still love this time of the year and know how lucky I am to have Mr. S. to share it with.

You're right Whiff you think you are fine you are OK then wham it hits you so if and when it does, we know where to come don't we because the friendships we make here if we want them to be aren't just for Christmas. they're for life x

Estrangement is called a living bereavement. Which is like death bereavement. Suddenly out of the blue it hits you . And you are right back to the beginning and relieving it all again . For me I relieved the last 2 weeks of my husbands death for 14 years it was like watching a black and white film . Then instead of the children texting my daughter phoned I had hid it from them all those years . So it all came out and she told her brother they both said the same thing I should have told them.

It's like estrangement doesn't matter what sort it is you think you are fine you are ok then wham it hits you. And its like the beginning all over again . That's why 2 years ago I decided that was it I couldn't do that to myself anymore. So gave up any hope of seeing my son ever again and I have have been happier.

The bone crushing grief over my husband still hits at times but I don't fight it . He loved Christmas so when he died I decided never to be sad on Christmas day . Christmas eve if I need it which I haven't for years . My grief him is a all year round thing.

This year was the first year I didn't think what would my other grandsons like. I haven't forgotten them but I don't know them now . Never got to know the youngest .

I spent years not sleeping as I was needed 24/7 . Moving changed all that for me . I slept the first night here just needing to get up to go too the loo and straight back to sleep.

Never lost sleep over my son . We all are different and reach acceptance at different times . And the slightest thing can set you back . Funny enough I do most of my thinking in the shower which is only once a week as it's exhausting not thinking but showering and getting dry and putting my cream on.

Christmas for me is just one day will be with my daughter and family. Rest of the time on my own . But friends coming for lunch new year's eve.
I am not lonely being on my own but lonely for my husband that will never change .

Estrangement is hard but you can survive it . And never blame yourself things happen in families you have no control over any estrangement is hard . Doesn't matter what sort.
At least with my son it was a clean break his choose . So no walking on eggs shells or the chance of ever seeing them when I go out as we in opposite directions .

Try not to be hard on yourselves as you are the only one hurting . Be kind and love yourself . And care about those you love you and you them . 🎄

I really relate to how you are feeling Love0c as I feel the same. I am sure it is particularly bard at this time of the year. I have tried a few things to help with sleeping (which is when I struggle the most). I tried an app called Breathe which has meditation/relaxation and self hypnosis specially designed to help you sleep. But the best I find is a couple of glasses of wine, magnesium tablets and a Nytol 50mg. Did this last night and finally managed to switch off and sleep. I usually go over and over what happened too.

Babs03 Thank you so much for your kind post and helpful advice. Made myself go out his morning for a long brisk walk. this time of year does not help either I think. I told myself not to be so selfish. there will be so many people really suffering at this moment in time. rel suffering. Just hope it passes quickly this time. I do seem to be easily overcome with emotion. Time of life?

So sorry love0c, the absolutely worst thing to do is to start rethinking things from years ago in bed at night. When I do this I get up and make myself a chamomile tea and put the radio or telly on low and just sit and try to calm down, taking deep breaths and imagining all the worrying memories being exhaled as I do so. It doesn’t matter what you do as long as you distract your tortured mind, whatever works for you. Your husband is right of course but is easier said than done to turn our thoughts off. Whatever you do don’t lie in bed tossing and turning, getting up is preferable because after all you aren’t sleeping.
I really feel for you when this happens to me I wouldn’t wish it on anyone.
Sending hugs 🤗

Felt rubbish yesterday morning. Decided to go into a nearby town and do some shopping. Felt better and we even stopped at a local pub on the way home and enjoyed a nice meal and a bottle of wine. Watched tv and went to bed. However, had a shocking night. My mind raced through all the upsets in my lifetime, childhood, children, adult children, arguments literally everything. Not been estranged with my children but was estranged from my mother. Why do I have to go over everything so many times? Heart still racing this morning. My husband says stop thinking about things.

So sorry Allsorts about your bereavement and missing your DH.
Our DAdultEstC loosing their love for us or blocking it out so they allow themselves to be cruel to us is an ongoing wound and I hope I am doing all I can to live my life positively.

I always wanted a garden, books, cats and peace and quiet, in retirement. My two cats have their full winter coats on now and they look shiny with soft glossy healthy deep fur.
Why don’t we grow a winter coat, all glossy and warming?

My apologies for my harsh comment in my last post about finding something to do. Every woman who is estranged finds her own road and way of dealing with it.

Photo of my ready for Christmas living room.

Whiff the play still had the German walk etc.
I remember when I organised my Yoga classes Xmas dinner & dance, it incorporated Faulty Towers actors coming in between courses, I was sitting next to a Germany lady when they did the German sketch

Morning all

Whiff I'm sure it was her darling H that ripped the book up, as if you give it a go it's near impossible unless you have very strong hands. She may have read it if he hadn't seen it first.

Your DH sounds like great fun, BBQing in the rain, playing cards .

Really enjoyed Faulty Towers, but not as good as the TV sitcom. Had a lovely Italian meal afterwards, restaurant full as sooo good. My sister came for coffee in the morning, had a great chat & with my son too, talking about genealogy, as he had the week off, Joey loved her, sat on her lap and gave her a kiss! She has 2 cats so hope she was OK with that .

No time to read more as meeting friend in park for coffee at 10am [not our park babs], so back tomorrow to read the rest.

@Debbie there are many things that open up old wounds but this support thread is a safe space where we can come on and be honest about how we are feeling, nobody is judged or shamed and if a post does cause someone to relive a bad memory that could happen anytime, anywhere. I have personally found this thread to be inspirational and have found friendship from those who get what I am talking about.
I hope you also feel able to share your experiences whether you decide to stay or just dip your toe in every so often.
❤️❤️

To be honest with you when things were improving with my DD and that was set back by MILs thoughtless comments it wasn't my MIL I was worrying about. People die from anorexia and I was damn sure I didn't want that to happen to my DD.

What we said to MIL was we didn't want to go non contact but if our daughter's health, potentially her life, depended on it we definitely would.

I don't think including the eating comments was appropriate as you were indeed wrong. Not meaning any harm isn't the issue when the outcome can be so serious.

Your comment Worriedwell about the acting disorder issue has made me very sad today. I beat myself up every day about all the things I must have done wrong to deserve estrangement, including any comment I made that was thoughtless about food. I apologised for anything I ever said which caused upset at the time, but it was maybe only one or two comments over a period of a couple of years. They themselves admitted they had accidentally done it and I also know that my estD’s MIL said things too, accidentally. It is so easy to slip up. And there are all the things I did and said that were right that have been forgotten about. Surely they know I would never had intentionally said anything to hurt my GD but I think I have an ADHD brain sometimes and speak before thinking. I hate myself for this.
My youngest daughter is struggling to keep neutral. She is OK with my new husband although she says that he does have a tendency to be a bit stressy at times. At least I can still see her and my 6 year old GD and I am trying very hard to make it a lovely Christmas for them.
Re letting go of hope. I can see that’s where I need to get to, but I’m not there yet.
One thing has crossed my mind about posting on here, is that I wonder if relaying my story actually opens up old wounds for some which just makes us all relive it all.. But thankyou all for your advice and understanding so far.