Support and friendship for those whose lives have been affected by estrangement.

All so true Babs. Financial abuse is another potential aspect that causes great shock and pain.

But shame is a waste of emotional energy that can be used to heal and accept and enjoy life in a new reality. 💐

@Madgran abuse is the line in the sand, our daughter abused us, not physically but verbally and manipulated and gaslighted us to the point we didn’t know which way was up. Our other daughters estranged her and encouraged us to do the same but we kept thinking things would change. However, when she managed to get several members of my family on side, including my sister, then extended her reach by abusing us online, I had a breakdown and at last we realised she had crossed the line and did as she wanted us to do - we got lost.
Even so we held out hope, sending cards and gifts on our GCs birthdays and Xmas.
But last year 11 years after we became estranged we finally gave up sending anything.
Abuse is when someone has an emotional hold on somebody which they know they can exploit and take advantage of by making that person feel so diminished they can’t fight their own corner. I now feel ashamed of what we took from our daughter without a word said by us, we were cowed and powerless.
I sincerely hope the mother you speak of is now putting her own well-being first, as we have learned to do, it leaves scars but we can now see them as being part of what makes us stronger.

Babs It can work for some IF they can manage to get to a place of acceptance that if it happens then it happens! That is not easy but can be possible in some contexts.

But ofcourse the contexts for each potential Estrangement are all different and unique with different personalities involved

What I have found helpful is learning others stories and "tactics"; sharing different strategies for addressing the many different issues and scenarios that arise. All of this helped me to get to where I am now

Alongside that I have been for several years supporting a mother who made the decision to estrange from her AC because of serious abuse and have found this thread so helpful in thinking about how best to support!

The velvet rope sounds like a really good idea for those coming on here with a similar situation, I often wonder about Jaffacake and whether she is ok, I just wonder if the velvet rope would work for her. Am just hoping the reason she hasn’t been in touch is because things have been resolved now.
Xx

Morning all

Madgran Keep doing what you're doing and ride the ways. Wish I'd had the opportunity to do this, but my estrangement was out of the blue.

Smiles Riverdance sounds fantastic, I will def go if it comes here.

Allsorts Absolutely! It works in my context but I know it wont work for all sadly.

What you say is true Smileless. Thankyou

Morning all.

Had a great evening out last night, lovely meal and then went to see Riverdance. It was absolutely amazing so if you ever get the chance to go don't miss out.

The musicians were just as impressive as the dancers, in particular the violinist whose speed of playing while she at times walked around the stage had to be seen to be believed.

A and L had our dogs so we didn't have to worry about how long we'd be and they're still exhausted having spent the evening with A and L's 12 week Maltese puppy. He's beyond cute and full of boundless energy, not quite what ours are used too.

The relationship your AC has with you and his/her desire to maintain it has enabled your 'velvet rope' approach to succeed thus far Madgran. I know that this has been an ongoing situation for years and it's testament to your patience and strength of character that you maintain your stance, and continue to see your AC and GC although perhaps not as often as you'd like.

It sounds as if your approach may have improved your AC's relationship with their partner; your 'velvet rope' not just setting and reinforcing boundaries in the relationship with you, but in the relationship with your AC too.

Good for you Madgran .

Yes Allsorts there has to be love for the parent(s) which is greater than the need to 'please' a partner and greater than the need to walk away for estrangement to be averted.

Babs, good news about the move, something you can both look forward to.
Madgran, there was another poster on here, years ago, Derbyshire Lass, I think, who used your "velvet rope" approach, I had never heard of it, but it is what I had done for many years, trying to have boundaries and being aware, it did not work for me. Both parties, ultimately have to love each other and want things to work, If one side ie. your grown up child really wants you out of their lives for whatever reason, you are out. You can't make someone care that doesn't. Some people have minimum contact because it's easier maybe out of guilt.
After many years, I realise now I should have faced full on when I was being distanced.

Babs03

@Madgran, you have an understanding with your AC which works for both of you, and are philosophical about it inasmuch as you realise that it works ‘at the moment’, I hope it works for many moments.
Wishing you all the best 🙏🏾🌹

To be honest I don't think it does "work" for ACs partner Bab's ...but it has brought about a realisation that they need to be careful how far they push things ...including with their partner, my AC! 😏

Madgran lovely to hear from you . Glad your way is working for you . You sound more confident now which is nice to hear. And more at peace with yourself. Pleased for you .

For me the way my son did it was cruel and cowardly . But I couldn't live walking on egg shells . So it worked best for me . And allowed me to live my own life as I want it . Having the extra health problems especially this year means I don't have to worry if he gives a dam or not.

Babs that's great news and you have plenty of help from friends and family. Hope all goes well for Mr B.

Took some doing but found where I can get private covid jab done . Boots have a booking form but when I phoned they aren't doing them . But found a pharmacy in the next town which is walk in so going next Friday costing £86 but I would rather have some protection so if I do get covid it hopefully will be mild.

@Madgran, you have an understanding with your AC which works for both of you, and are philosophical about it inasmuch as you realise that it works ‘at the moment’, I hope it works for many moments.
Wishing you all the best 🙏🏾🌹

*Smileless It's always good to see you here Madgran and good to know that your fear of estrangement isn't as great as it used to be, but I'm sorry that it's still there in the background.
It must be very hard living with this 'spectre at the feast'* I've often wondered if it's harder than actually being estranged, never knowing if and when it will happen but I suppose there is an element of hope as long as there is some contact

Thankyou Smileless Things have improved because of my "velvet rope" which has brought true acceptance for me that if it happens, it happens. What I have learnt is that some very clear messages given about that "rope" has actually changed behaviours because of a realisation that the behaviours no longer cause upset ..in fact they just cause a shrug of the shoulders and withdrawal...plus more willingness from my AC to acknowledge problem behaviour when it arises through observing my withdrawal!

It might not work for everyone but it is for me at the moment!

That is good news Babs . You must be thrilled; fingers crossed it all goes smoothly. It's great that your lovely girls and s's.i.l. are on hand to help out and that you have good neighbours.

My cousin who lost her partner of 8 years is in the position we moved here to avoid. She does have a good support network but is living in an enormous detached house with large garden, packed to the gunnels as they both brought possessions from their marital homes.

It's always good to see you here Madgran and good to know that your fear of estrangement isn't as great as it used to be, but I'm sorry that it's still there in the background.

It must be very hard living with this 'spectre at the feast'. I've often wondered if it's harder than actually being estranged, never knowing if and when it will happen but I suppose there is an element of hope as long as there is some contact .

Will PM aft next week. DH has appointment for heart scan and op Monday and Tues but should be home Weds.
🤞❤️

Yoginimeisje

Babs Congratulations! . We must have a quick coffee before you go xx

Yes indeed.
Will be months yet but am looking forward to seeing you and Joey ❤️❤️

Babs Congratulations! . We must have a quick coffee before you go xx

Whiff Yes, the trampoline stayed in its place, thank God!
They went away for a long weekend, back yesterday, it just highlighted the noise of them; with the peace & tranquility whilst they were away.

Great news, have buyers for the house and have offered on a bungalow close to the one we lost, offer was accepted yesterday.
So the move is back on.
Will be tough with DH but have flat packed boxes that I intend to to start on one at a time, marked ‘to keep’ ‘charity’ and ‘dump’.
The girls and SILs will help take stuff to charity or to the skip. Two neighbours have also volunteered to take stuff in their cars if we need them. Will miss our neighbours.
Is no chain thankfully, the people buying it are in a flat that is being bought by a man just divorced and leaving the family house for his wife and children.
Fingers crossed this goes to plan 🤞

Reading all your recent messages made me feel teary at all the sadness and pain including the "bursts" of it that hit even the people who have reached some sort of acceptance.

For many years I feared estrangement was coming. Now not so much although that fear never goes, as I use a version of the"velvet rope" to keep clear boundaries in place beyond which then if Estrangement comes, so be it! I suppose it's my version of acceptance of a reality that may or may not happen.

Mandy this thread has been and is a boon to me and to many others for all sorts of different reasons and needs and I know you will find understanding and constructive comment here. 💐

Mandy window cleaner came . Then texting with my daughter and booked tickets for Elgar concert in March. Because of being disabled on there access scheme so get a free ticket for a companion. Gave my ticket weeks ago back for concert next month Sir Stephen Hough playing Rachmaninov as no one wanted to go with me . But I go most places by myself anyway.

Makes me laugh when you see a consultant and they say X attended appointment by herself who else am I supposed to go with🤷.

Sorry Spring missed reading you are a nannie again . Congratulations hope mom and baby are doing well. Extra Christmas presents this year.

I have never blamed myself or thought I have done anything wrong to cause the estrangement. I did everything I could after their dad died to make sure they lived their own lives and let them go . Like I said to them both we had our time together and still would have if his cancer was survivable but it wasn't . But they had the whole of their lives ahead of them and they had to live it.

Before the estrangement my son could always talk to me even when his dad was alive both children could talk to us both . No subject was ever taboo. My son should have told me to my face it was the last time I would every see him . But I know he couldn't have done that . So he took the cruel cowards way out and did it via email . I told him many years ago when he did something and blamed it on his dad having cancer never make me ashamed of him being my son and he promised he wouldn't. He broken that promise . I am not ashamed he is my son but the fact he is a cruel coward.

Change of subject Yogin did the trampoline stay in the garden during storm Amy ? Some up here in big gardens when into the road or other people's gardens . My neighbour behind me is sensible and it's folded and stored behind his shed.
I well remember when your old neighbour died and how it upset you were even though you had your differences . Bet it was no fun for your son driving in the storm especially if it had canvas sides .

Smiles hope your garden was repairable . Thank you for saying you were proud of me coming from you that's means a lot . Trouble is I haven't shut up since 🤣.

This thread has been a lifeline for lot of people not just those who feel they can post but those that just read it and know they are not alone . How many thousands of posts has there been in all these years . This thread is a testament to the long timers that it still keeps going . Giving people a safe place to come and know they are understood and not judged . Support ,advice and most importantly of all friendship . People have tried to destroy it but failed because together we are strong . One old poster called us Warrior Queens. I always liked that even though some didn't.

Anyway better get ready sit fit class this afternoon. Take care of yourselves. 👑

Mandymoo just read you post top of the page. Your son made his choice not you. You had no say in the matter please don't torture yourself all you have ever done is give him unconditional love . What he has done is down to him.

You are a caring loving mom who has children who love and care about you . You think they don't notice or know you are hurting but they do .

10 years it's time to let go with no regrets . Nothing you did or could do will bring your son back . He choose to decide he didn't want you in his life . I know it hurts to let go but you have too for your sake and all those who love and care about you.

I decided to stop hoping to see or speak to my son ever again in 2023 as the only person hurting was me . And I will not give him that power to hurt me and I have been happier every since . The hurt and grief of my husband dieing hurts far more than anything my son and daughter in law did or said. I lost half of myself the moment my husband took his last breath and haven't been whole since .
But my husband wanted me to live the best life I can and I do .

Estrangement is a living grief ,but real grief is thousands times worse . All those widowed here know that and it is something we live with daily or I do. I still love my son but the son I knew he is a stranger to me . But I am no longer the mom he knew so I am a stranger to him .

Your son if you think about it is a stranger and you are not the mom he knew . Yes it's hard to let go hope but if you don't he wins . That's why I decided to give up hope as I will not let him or my daughter in law win .

I miss my grandsons even the one I have never seen or know his name but I gave him one . Children grow so fast and doubt I would recognise the 2 I know . They where 4&2 last time I saw them . I doubt they remember me or whether they have been told I don't care about them or are dead.

Like my husband they are frozen in time .

I am lucky I have my daughter ,son in law and 2 grandsons who love and care about me . My daughter and boys were here yesterday and she laughs they and me have a better social life than she does. Before I moved here 6 years I existed but since then I live my life to the full. The past has gone for me I can't live with what if's or if onlies . I live for the now and future.

I don't know what the future holds for me

Morning all and thank you for your lovely responses .

The unfairness overwhelms us all doesn't it Babs, for ourselves, for one another and for the GC we've had taken from us and what are those children being taught? That family isn't important, it doesn't matter. You don't need your parents and your children don't need their GP's so will they I wonder be as shocked as we were and still are, if our GC estrange them .

Scenes like you described do bring home to us what we'll never have Allsorts. We're not fools; we know that all families have fall outs and problems but what they have that we didn't, is a willingness to overcome them to sort things out, because there's nothing more important than family.

I now see her as she is for me that was the hardest thing but the most important one too .

Congratulations on the safe arrival of your new GC Spring who no doubt will bring much joy into your lives. The
hypervigilance you mention demonstrates the far reaching affects of estrangement and how it permeates other relationships, as does the joy of this new arrival opening the wounds that not being able to see your other GC has caused.

That's right Whiff, we never really had the opportunity to bond with our first GS and didn't ever have the chance to see his brother but having spent so many years, reading about the heartbreaking experiences of other EP's and EGP's I really do believe that that lack of any meaningful contact/relationship, has spared us the grief that so many have to endure.

All those pm's Whiff. I remember them well as I remember how proud I was of you when you made your first post on the support thread, because I knew how much courage that took.

Almost 13 years Yogin. Sometimes it feels like yesterday and at others, it was another life. As you and all the regulars here past and present know my door closed sometime ago, but those waves of pain and grief still hit me with a force that takes my breath away, which is what happened on Friday.

They don't come with anything like the frequency they used too but when they do, the intensity of the pain is just as great as it ever was.

I don't think any of us knew just how many lives have been marred by estrangement Mandy until we came here. We all thought it was just us which is why although many don't know why, to begin with we think it must be our fault, and it takes time and being able to share openly with others to know that it isn't, it's theirs.

Whiff get well soon, glad you are still rambling though, look forward to your rambles so much.
Spring congrats on your new GC 🌹🎉
Allsorts, we know for sure our daughter doesn’t care an iota, she knew that my DH was not expected to make it at the end of March and has really struggled since, and tbh we didn’t want her to show up, then it would have been all about her, as usual.
But we are now in contact with members of my family whom we were previously estranged from also and they told us she didn’t miss a beat when she found out. They now realise what really happened all those years ago and how wrong they were to take sides, but I haven’t the time or the inclination to deal with their feelings of guilt. As I have said before I will neither forgive or forget.
Take care all and remember life is way too short, do something you enjoy today no matter how small.
🌹❤️

Yoga, like me you prayed and waited for those girls we loved so long, but they changed and we didn't or couldn’t see or believe it. A recent event has shown me how she doesn't care for anyone but herself and doesn't care who she hurts. I now see her as she is.

Wish you better Whiff xx