Son has signed out

Maybe your son has kept in touch with your cousin directly?

How close are your son and your cousin?

FGS User.

Smileless

He made a "joke" that I'm sure induced some anxiety in his child and was given a plain, calm and perfectly reasonable answer "don't come over unannounced". He then responded with an explosive tantrum filled with cussing. A proper parent, a mature adult, would NEVER act that way in such a situation.

It's like if someone self-admitted to kicking a puppy in anger, being told they're an animal abuser that should never have pets, and you going "you can't say that, you don't even personally know them!!"

It doesn't matter if you tried or best, or could have been worse. This isn't baking a cake or a school test. You are voluntarily creating and raising a whole new human. You need to be better, not just simply try.

Hello NorthernRiverDad and welcome to the estrangement forum.

I've pleased that you've found somewhere to talk about what's happened but sorry that you're going through this.

I notice that you picked up on a poster saying I'm not even sure I like him anymore. This is something that EP's often say; I've said this myself but it doesn't mean we no longer love them, we do. If we didn't, it wouldn't hurt.

We don't recognise our ES now. He's no longer the loving and caring son he used to be.

As well as your pain and distress, what's also evident is your bewilderment and that's what so many EP's experience and is something that rarely goes away.

I see that just one sentence has been picked out and quoted in an attempt to undermine not just your experience but you personally. I hope you will disregard being told that you're clearly not mature enough to regulate your emotions in a healthy way. To be told by someone who doesn't know you and is more than likely attempting to force their personal agenda that you're definitely aren't mature enough to be a parent should be ignored.

There is a constantly running support thread on this forum which you may like to look at. A new one was started yesterday and that particular thread has been running for around 13 years.

There you will find support and understanding. You maybe 'challenged' but you will never be disrespected or have salt rubbed into the wounds your estrangement has caused.

If you need to talk to us, we'll be there to listen.

"I was completely baffled and in that moment I lost it.And threw a few expletives at him in disbelief that is not common, but I did it."

This is an insane way to respond, to your own child no less. You are clearly not mature enough to regulate your emotions in a healthy way, meaning you definitely aren't mature enough to be a parent.

P.S. The term Aspergers isn't used anymore, it's just called Autism now. Also saying he's high-functioning is kind of demeaning since it's not a disability, just a different way of thinking and behaving. In other words, hes Neurodivergent.

Your words resonate about owning it.
So much of this estrangement is so baffling. But that's exactly how I feel. And yet, reading all that I have and trying to understand this whole realm, the words keep saying
Perhaps it was micromanaging... Or even your compliments, perhaps came as conditional. And then I sit there and I think so.What is a person supposed to do? If ever the communication does open, just sit there and say nothing.It makes no sense. Mind you, early on a pediatrician had all but diagnosed my son with aspergers. For the longest time, i had assumed that it was officially diagnosed when I was asking the kid's mother, we've since divorced sadly, but she had told me, it was never officially put down on paper. It was this pediatrician's gut feeling. I pretty much know this to be true now by things that my son has had to go through in all of his school years. And yet, I will say that he does seem kind of high-functioning. He can be very analytical et cetera.Et cetera. But in any case, I agree with owning it, I only wish that the messages from my daughter and my son, both separately estranging me... As odd as that sounds and probably makes me seem guilty.But they both have estranged me in separate incidences, for different reasons.I'm guessing. But heck, i was learning how to be a father on the fly.I had no expertise at it. My own father who upon his passing, i loved and still love very much as I do. My mother they're both gone now. But I tried to be the best dad I could be. It's all just so baffling so much so that it's hard to end a thought.And that's why i'm rambling on sorry about that

I'm a little late to the dance. I only just signed up today. For the same reasons of being estranged by both my daughter and my son and separately in their own unique ways.

But the part where you said " i'm not even sure I like him anymore!!"..... And mind you, this is coming from a person who has cried more since my estrangement, which began from my son in february( i had previously.I've tried to invite him to dinner for old time's sake, we resided together for 7 years.While he saved money to find a place. We boughted heads every once in a while.But, it's just so odd, because I thought it was one of the best times in my life. The way we used to laugh and converse, but as I said, i've cried more at the disbelief of it all. Anyway, after he ignored my invites for dinner.Just to kind of catch up and come back over here for all time's sake, i made a kidding remark about stopping by his apartment and tapping on the window to say hi to the cat. Now, I know that probably sounds odd, but I was obviously joking because I was working at the time.I just happened to be near his apartment, and his reply was" don't come over unannounced". I was completely baffled and in that moment I lost it.And threw a few expletives at him in disbelief that is not common, but I did it. Since then, i've been ghosted and I understand because I had a blow up, but i've since gone through all the symptoms. Apologizing in disbelief. Apologizing in anger. Apologizing in compromise. Apologizing for apologizing. Until I finally made it to the stage and realized that one can't keep begging.But it doesn't make the hurt go away) and i'm sorry, but I was just explaining my side to put better perspective on it.But to hear what you said about possibly not liking your son... Even in your words, I can tell that you love your son.Otherwise you wouldn't be here. Every once in a while, we feel these moments, these twinges of anger. These snippets of disbelief and we wanna say angry things because it just makes no sense.So I totally get that. I suspect if I would have read this thread further. I'll find out that maybe you've since talked to your son. Yours is the first that I've read. Since I got here, but I can tell you, we're on the same team and I certainly hope that bonds are reconnected somewhere along the line. Because the more I learn about adult children estranging their parents, the more bizarre it is.And it seems like a fad. I feel like we could have been so much worse as parents or so much more strict.And maybe that's the problem.Maybe we weren't strict enough. Forcing respect. By no means, was I a perfect father?I swear I tried to cover all bases.

That is true but also a sword that cuts both ways. I had never thought much of her parenting, especially with Andrew.

As the late queen said, recollections vary. The only thing you can do is wait, if and when he does contact you, listen and talk about his side of things. It is an awful situation to be in as there is obviously love both sides. If my daughter had ever indicated I had let her down, I would have owned it, I know I did my best but wouldn't know her side if that makes sense.

It's a shame things have not improved.

I don't like think I could ever dislike my child for being unhappy with elements of their childhood. More help is needed to understand why this is happening rather than who is right or wrong.

The 'reasons' given to the OP by her son may not be true anotherGran, therefore making her estrangement unjustified.

Good to have an update but sorry to read things haven't changed. Enjoy your lively grandson and try to move forward one day at a time...

Smileless2012

The OP even says her son told her a list of complaints and reasons he’s not talking to her, and she says they’re all unjustified. This is the missing missing reasons.

Thanks for coming back Topnan.
You get to recognise GN names that are worth reading, and you are never obliged to read them all.

I couldn't agree more Cossy and it happens far too often especially on the estrangement forum.

Good to hear back from you and absolutely NOBODY has the right or should make another poster feel “driven away”

"The OP doesn't get to invalidate someone else's experience" and yet you appear to be invalidating the OP's anotherGran.

It really doesn't help to project your own experiences onto others which is what you appear to be doing. The OP isn't your mother.

Her son doesn’t feel that is it is untrue. OP doesn’t get to invalidate someone else’s experience. The axe forgets, but the tree remembers.
This sounds just like my mom, “hey Mom when you said X it really hurt my feelings,” my mom-“ I don’t remember saying that”
It doesn’t mean she didn’t say it though.
If somebody comes to you with an incident where you hurt them, and you just shut them out. Don’t expect them to come back and talk to you. This post is full of the missing missing reasons.

Hello again TopNan, it was good of you to come back with an update but I'm sorry there's not really been any improvement.

FWIW I think that 'cutting him loose' is the right decision especially as trying to maintain contact is having such a detrimental affect on your quality of life.

It was lovely to read what you said about your GS, he sounds terrific so embrace his love and the love and support you have from the rest of your family.

Take care and be happy .

I was driven away from this forum by two ( or are they the same person) individuals who thought it was a good idea to twist the knife in an already gaping wound. As an update, things aren't really much better despite talks and there us no talking as he's not phoned me or answered any calls since November. My very close cousin has just been diagnosed with MND and apart from an initial "oh that's bad" he's not bothered to enquire after him or make any contact since Feb 25th. I've decided to cut him loose as I've been so depressed about it all, to the point of not wanting to live anymore. Luckily my grandson gives me the will to keep on and that's not taking it away from the rest of my family re support and love we share. He's just such an innocent and absolutely full of beans, loving life and he just sweeps me up in it..... and he's only 3! Thanks to all for your advice,it means a lot. The other two, well give your heads a nice wobble and then do one!

Cambsnan

Who is right and who is wrong does not really matter when you love your child does it? Can you not just say thank you for sharing how you feel (his feeling are valid whatever the truth may be) and ask if there is a way forward for you to rebuild your relationship.
Leave any judgement to one side.

Reasonable approach, perhaps a way forward.

I would jump over all the world's oceans to put this right even if my child seemed unwilling to traverse a tiny puddle. I can be tough and a bit unforgiving with friends or siblings but my children? Unless actual abuse is involved, I would keep that door open even if my fingers are crushed in the process. "You are only as happy as your unhappiest child". For me it's the truth. Only you can decide what, if anything, to do but my advice would be to keep trying and listening. I am sorry you're suffering and hope you can find a way through it.

Babs03

@Starfire57

You are right, taking accusations and in some cases verbal abuse whilst remaining calm and able to respond without showing any anger is not just hard but imho enabling the adult child to carry on doing this. I know. I have been there. My estD hurled so much abuse our way and we bowed our heads and took a hail of hatred whilst apologising for whatever she accused us of.
It was horrible but we thought that extending our love towards her would finally work and we could once again have our loving caring daughter back and see our GCs who were just babies then. As I suffered a breakdown our other three daughters intervened and said we were being abused and to do what our estD wanted, to get out of her life before she destroyed ours.
So we did, and it definitely saved my life.
When we call them adult children they are not children they are adults capable of inflicting hurt and pain and taking no responsibility for it and in some cases it is the parents who are vulnerable.
We need to think outside the envelope sometimes and realise that in this country right now, just as there are ACs who have abusive or uncaring parents this works vice versa and many parents/grandparents put up with this without raising their heads because they are scared they will no longer be able to see their ACs or GCs.

I am so sorry. There is a lot I don't say or do in fear too.

But I noticed the more I let that dictate my actions, the more trouble I got into!!!

I guess they call that trying too hard?

Now I let things lay; I don't apologize for trivial things. I may say oh, I didn't realize, or whatever.

In the past, even if I simply thought I did something, I would apologize and then notice not only would I be told off, but past nonsense would be brought up and then came the vastly untrue assumptions of my intentions and, literal judgment of my character and how I raised my own kids!!

Then I would have to defend defend and hope I didn't blow it. It sometimes would be a whole afternoon of texting back and forth in panic. Usually over the smallest thing that may have just blown over, but I worried so much.

The worry that the one time she estranged me for 6 weeks would turn into forever.

Now, since I went to a therapist, I've learned.....unless it's a direct attack, anything that goes a bit wrong, I let it lay.

I don't bring it up in future conversations, make apologies to things "if" I noticed a look of disapproval, to smooth anything over like I used to....all I would get is more criticism, really. It would never end well.

I misdirect all the time now too; during a visit when I see my daughter get huffy about something with the kids (to which is just nothing but control) then I may spend some time later talking with her about her life and going's on and slip in some compliments along the conversation.

Not necessary too much, as these grown kids today are complete narcissists, but just a little attention to create inattention to whatever dumb thing she tried to make an issue of.

It's becoming like a game. Yes, as a grandparent with limited power over things, I don't expect to win; just staying in the game is a victory these days.

@Starfire57

You are right, taking accusations and in some cases verbal abuse whilst remaining calm and able to respond without showing any anger is not just hard but imho enabling the adult child to carry on doing this. I know. I have been there. My estD hurled so much abuse our way and we bowed our heads and took a hail of hatred whilst apologising for whatever she accused us of.
It was horrible but we thought that extending our love towards her would finally work and we could once again have our loving caring daughter back and see our GCs who were just babies then. As I suffered a breakdown our other three daughters intervened and said we were being abused and to do what our estD wanted, to get out of her life before she destroyed ours.
So we did, and it definitely saved my life.
When we call them adult children they are not children they are adults capable of inflicting hurt and pain and taking no responsibility for it and in some cases it is the parents who are vulnerable.
We need to think outside the envelope sometimes and realise that in this country right now, just as there are ACs who have abusive or uncaring parents this works vice versa and many parents/grandparents put up with this without raising their heads because they are scared they will no longer be able to see their ACs or GCs.

Cambsnan

Who is right and who is wrong does not really matter when you love your child does it? Can you not just say thank you for sharing how you feel (his feeling are valid whatever the truth may be) and ask if there is a way forward for you to rebuild your relationship.
Leave any judgement to one side.

Omg. If only it were that easy !

It sounds so reasonable, what you are suggesting, but unfortunately, sometimes these estranged adults are not reasonable.

I am not estranged but have noticed more distancing and lots and lots of criticism towards me since my daughter's divorce.

As if it's my fault she chose such a loser who couldn't stand getting older and snagged some damaged younger girl who's dad just left her and mom too.

So I worry, and I have done this many, many times..... apologized, explained myself, etc. and really, I am starting to think it only fuels the fire.

Best to ignore a lot of it, be angry or sad in private and get on for the grandkids sake.

If adult children want to estrange, sometimes it doesn't take much these days. But I remind myself to use every advantage to avoid it and not hand it to her on a silver platter.

Hopefully, it will get better or at least not worse until the grandkids are old enough to decide for themselves. These adult children are crazy with power they have over parents and their own kids but that will not last forever.

Just like we lost our power, they will too. Might end up worse for them; teaching their kids to have no loyalty may bite them back someday.