I have been having issues with my daughter ever since her husband left her. And she has a best friend, since high school, who claims she was abused. I don't know if that is true or not, but, seems my daughter talks a lot about and has now claimed she was an abused child.
She even is starting to make my grandkids think I am not safe in some way or was a bad parent/grandparent. They told me and it suck that the oldest one seems to believe it. The youngest told me she doesn't believe it.
Anyway, this is complete fabrication and I am thought maybe the best friend has been projecting her childhood onto my daughter.
My confusion is, when I offered to discuss the alledged abuse, she got mad that I didn't believe or acknowledge she was abused.
I went mad trying to get just ONE example. Just ONE. A long message conversation with me offering to talk in person or at least give one example on the messages.
She kept ranting about me and how I act, called me psychotic if I am called out on something.
Well, I have recently been deciding when she does say something very untrue to me, I don't agree with her. I've always been more of a silent person when attacked, will just leave the room, ignore it, etc. but lately I decided to at least basically defend myself like most people would.
Not arguing, just saying yeah no that's not true kinda thing. No big deal. That's now psychotic in her view.
Anyway my question is, has anyone here had an experience that when you ask about abuse, with the tone of if I did something I will apologize kinda thing, that then the adult child avoids, attacks and basically never tell you what you did?
It's completely maddening. You feel so hurt yet you are trying to understand by getting an answer. It's looney.
So finally, she mentioned children need to feel safe. I had a husband who yelled at me all the time. I thought ok, so maybe she was scared of him?
That's reasonable I think with a young child. But that's not abuse if I didn't know she was scared at times. Most the time she was always smiling. I can't read minds.
I told her if just once she told me she was scared, I may have tried to help her. But not knowing her feelings isn't abuse, it's lack of knowledge.
No matter, I told her I had no idea, that what she said was valid. Yet she still insisted she was abused and she said I won't accept it.
Again, how can you accept what exactly?
Don't kids know what happened?
I read about Mackalay Culkin and his story about his dad slapping him across the face and how Culkin said he had no bed to sleep on while his dad had a large comfy bed, etc.
He had examples of abuse.
What is the deal when an adult child can give no examples?
No clues? and the idea when you say you are ready to listen anyway, they don't want to talk or they avoid/distract with their opinions of your behaviors rather than on the subject of the abuse?
It got to the point of so many horrid accusations of abuse, again, using only the word abuse, even saying I do it with my grandchildren (too many hugs? idk?)
Now I am worried this will end badly. I did acknowledge her fear as a kid. But this is kinda nuts. Anyone who knows what this is, give me a clue.
I feel like the best friend projected so much of her own childhood now that my daughter thinks it's hers. I mean, she's known the friend for decades but seems now that her husband took off on her leaving her a single mom with 2 kids, it seems now something is seriously wrong. A couple of years ago, when her husband first left, she talked alot about her friend helping abused kids, and there was a predator defense protocol that the friend told her about for kids.
She used it one day to throw me out after I teared up a little when she yelled at me.
I never asked her why she used that. But she's a grown adult.
It's mental.
Does anyone know what this is?
I m afraid you’re not being at all rational you are completely stuck in I m right she’s wrong mode and you ARE NOT going to change so therefore your situation won’t change
While you are here can you explain your post that said
I couldn’t leave him as he would have got the children WHY
BlueBelle
Starfire I m trying to be patient with you as I know you are hurting, but you have a huge brick wall down and have no intention of trying to see your problems from any other angle than your own.
Remember the saying
If you always do what you ve always done, you ll always get what you always got. You are like a hamster on a wheel madly paddling and getting nowhere. Your thought pattern is just repeating over and over You need counselling to jolt yu into looking at this from different angles.
Things will never change as you cannot, or will not look at any other opinion except your own
Well, that's great but here is the rub.... I have always done what I do but I'm not getting what I always got.
All of us were doing so well and so happy when my grandson was born. That's what I got for what I've done.
And, it was still going that way until my daughter's husband left her. She changed. I didn't. I have always been the same and that seemed good enough for her before her husband left.
I didn't come here for advice, actually, about myself. My post was, if anyone else had this experience of being blamed for something so horrible yet not one lousy example......
And surely, nobody here thinks it's ok for a daughter to talk badly about a grandparent to their grandchild.....if so then I am certainly not in rational, moral company.
Starfire I m trying to be patient with you as I know you are hurting, but you have a huge brick wall down and have no intention of trying to see your problems from any other angle than your own.
Remember the saying
If you always do what you ve always done, you ll always get what you always got. You are like a hamster on a wheel madly paddling and getting nowhere. Your thought pattern is just repeating over and over You need counselling to jolt yu into looking at this from different angles.
Things will never change as you cannot, or will not look at any other opinion except your own
You may have apologised to your daughter, Starfire57 but you have proved on here by your posts that you really don't mean it. Your daughter will know that too. To be honest, from what I've read on here, I am surprised that your daughter hasn't gone no contact. You may not mean to but it all sounds like 'poor me' and everything your daughter does, says or thinks is wrong. You appear to believe you have no responsibility at all for your poor relationship with your daughter and that doesn't bode well for it improving.
I have a difficult relationship with my daughter and some of that is definitely because I stayed in an abusive marriage far longer than I should have done. We have had periods of estrangement or tension. Counselling can be very useful at those times even though my daughter wouldn't dream of coming with me. Even though I can't control the relationship to keep it on track, I can control my response to it but sometimes it needs just a little extra help to get my head around it. Maybe you should try for that little bit of help too with a professional.
MarieElla
Oh god!!!
Yeah. Pretty awful when daughters scapegoat mom.
Sago
I rest my case.
What case? You were around to witness her childhood my mothering and my grandmothering? You had no case to start with, without witnesses, expert testimony or ,evidence. Thrown out of court!
Oh god!!!
I rest my case.
welbeck
I think the point is OP that they need space from you.
No, they do not. My daughter herself might, due to the fact she's decided to blame me for her divorce I guess, like maybe I didn't raise her well enough to not get rejected by her man?
Hey but that's just what men do when younger women enable them....
Just look at Hollywood where there is more opportunity for it....
Smileless2012
I disagree Unity that the OP is totally unwilling to admit even the possibility that (her) daughter may have a point. She has said more than once that she's apologised, and on the first page of this thread posted I did acknowledge when she told me and said I was unaware she was scared.
Again, thank you. Why is it you are one of the few here who can read?
And btw, her childhood is just a red herring when it comes to the issue of her toxic talking behind my back. Red herring, google it if you have to.
Crossstitchfan
Can’t you see, OP, this lengthy post is veering more and more towards proving that you are bringing this all on yourself?
And another thing, when you respond to a post, is it really necessary to write the equivalent of a book? You just go over the same argument, but phrase it differently each time. Can’t you see that is not only pointless, but also just a little bit tedious? I am sorry you are suffering but you need to address it properly at home, not on here, especially when you ignore any advice given.
Oh my, bringing it on myself, I suppose so, actually thinking something like this could never happen to me...if I had a clue, I'd have been more cautious about it all.
But 6 years ago, I was constantly in the good graces of my daughter and her husband; seems I WAS loved then, so I guess when you think people love you, you don't try to manipulate things in your favor, since you already have that, and never, ever think that suddenly you are a bad mom, grandma and person overnight.
I still cannot reconcile how I was this great mom and grandma and then one day, I wasn't.
But I finally figured it all out, unfortunately for me, way too late. Damage is done, and not one thing I can do...can't even get upset at my grandson's anger at me over something SHE told him without being accused of letting her be "abused" by her dad's putdowns of me in front of her.
I was verbally abused by a narcissistic man who had preconceived notions I'd be like his mom.
And that didn't even matter until my daughter got rear ended by some girl after her husband.
BlessedArt
As a grandparent I cannot imagine thinking it appropriate to have such discussions with my grandchildren. This alone is an indication that the line between a healthy relationship and damagingly dysfunctional one has been crossed. It is not the place of a grandparent to get children on side, or to foster disharmony between the child and their parents.
Space is needed here more than anything else. The cons of this situation far outweigh the pros of maintaining regular contact for all parties, but especially the children. Distance can provide peace and clarity. It can provide perspective in a sense that having time away to miss our loved ones allows us to weigh whether conflict and being “right” is more important than being in each other’s lives. I think having a toxic, dysfunctional marriage has conditioned you all to accept the chaos as a norm for family, but it really isn’t. The children are caught up here and it’s not fair to them. It’s better for them to stop being exposed to all of this before they grow up mirroring this dysfunction themselves.
What discussions? Me? It's my daughter talking to them about me and they have eventually told on her. She's the one doing what most people would say is "toxic" or whatever the lingo is now.
MarieElla
It sounds like you dislike your daughter...you keep giving us examples of her unreasonable behaviour..
What about your behaviour?
I most definitely think she's going to become more and more distant with you due to your lack of understanding of her trauma.
If jumping through all kinds of hoops this last 6 years for her, trying to watch every step, to no avail is bad behavior, I guess I am guilty then. I mean, I am kinda done with that though.
Can’t you see, OP, this lengthy post is veering more and more towards proving that you are bringing this all on yourself?
And another thing, when you respond to a post, is it really necessary to write the equivalent of a book? You just go over the same argument, but phrase it differently each time. Can’t you see that is not only pointless, but also just a little bit tedious? I am sorry you are suffering but you need to address it properly at home, not on here, especially when you ignore any advice given.
As a grandparent I cannot imagine thinking it appropriate to have such discussions with my grandchildren. This alone is an indication that the line between a healthy relationship and damagingly dysfunctional one has been crossed. It is not the place of a grandparent to get children on side, or to foster disharmony between the child and their parents.
Space is needed here more than anything else. The cons of this situation far outweigh the pros of maintaining regular contact for all parties, but especially the children. Distance can provide peace and clarity. It can provide perspective in a sense that having time away to miss our loved ones allows us to weigh whether conflict and being “right” is more important than being in each other’s lives. I think having a toxic, dysfunctional marriage has conditioned you all to accept the chaos as a norm for family, but it really isn’t. The children are caught up here and it’s not fair to them. It’s better for them to stop being exposed to all of this before they grow up mirroring this dysfunction themselves.
I think the point is OP that they need space from you.
It sounds like you dislike your daughter...you keep giving us examples of her unreasonable behaviour..
What about your behaviour?
I most definitely think she's going to become more and more distant with you due to your lack of understanding of her trauma.
Sago, you have hit the nail on the head. This person really is impossible to deal with and, to be honest, I can understand what her family gets so annoyed with her. I couldn’t cope with her, for sure.
This comment will certainly get deleted, but maybe one or two will see it before it does!
Starfire57
“I already get enough space from them as it is. Any more and I might as well go full on estrangement. I might someday, but holding out to see if my grandson can change his perspective of her lies about me. He is young still and 8 years old. Been having behavioral problems too since his dad left.
My granddaughter is way smarter, though, didn't go through the trauma of dad leaving because she wasn't born yet.
When she told me some of what her mom talks to them about, she has already told me she knows it's not the truth, and she's only 5 years old!”
This is really concerning, a 5&8 year old should not be having these conversations.
You are saying your granddaughter is smarter than your grandson, this is really narcissistic.
I totally agree with Bluebelle in that you should step back and get some help.
First though you must learn to listen and absorb, you are too defensive and come across as someone who is impossible to deal with.
Look Starfire you are going round in circles I d let it all die down ( although I don’t think you will) you’re like a dog with a flea bite, nibble, nibble, nibble however much it hurts.
One thing interests me, you say if you had divorced your husband he would have got the children …..Why???
I actually think you could do with some counselling, not about your daughter or grandkids, but about your total inability to see that there is a problem, of whoever’s making, but it’s there and you cannot see it at all, you have big blinkers on and nothing going to change until you look very very clearly and calmly at your part in all this
I don’t think you were a bad mum or gran but you are not helping yourself AT ALL with this stubborn attitude and inability to see the wood from the trees
Smileless2012
I disagree Unity that the OP is totally unwilling to admit even the possibility that (her) daughter may have a point. She has said more than once that she's apologised, and on the first page of this thread posted I did acknowledge when she told me and said I was unaware she was scared.
Her last comment seems to suggest otherwise!
OP, I'd just leave it for now. I can see no way currently that your daughter and yourself can come to a point of understanding, without which there can be no relationship. That will obviously have an effect on your relationship with your grandson, as that is rightly down to your daughter, but until you can admit that she grew up in a household where abuse was present, and that negatively affected her, there is no way forward.
BTW, seeming perfectly happy at the time the abuse is taking place, and the feeling the effect afterwards is totally normal. Maybe take some time to read about how growing up in an abusive household can affect children.
Smileless2012
You're the one who appears to be confused Crossstichfan. When you said you had better things to do, it was about this particular thread. My response about you still reading and posting was also about this particular thread and not GN in general.
You responded correctly. Some people just don't get it.
I disagree Unity that the OP is totally unwilling to admit even the possibility that (her) daughter may have a point. She has said more than once that she's apologised, and on the first page of this thread posted I did acknowledge when she told me and said I was unaware she was scared.
Unity
Having read your last posts, I agree with those who say maybe some space and time are the best thing. You are totally unwilling to admit even the possibility that your daughter may have a point, so I cannot see any way forward for that relationship. I think the best thing you can do now is give her and her children some space.
She has no point. I was the one being called stupid or harassed in some way. Maybe it bothered her to hear it but she never let on, never said anything, never looked scared or hid
I am sorry she had to hear such stuff aimed at her mother, but I didn't do it, I could not stop it short of divorce (where he would have gotten custody of both of my kids).
Her point now is to scapegoat me because her husband left her for someone else, a younger girl, while she was pregnant no less and of course all her frustrations could be put on me, she could control me whereas she could not with her husband.
I am more than willing to admit that environment wasn't great, but it wasn't abusive towards her in any way, so why should I admit I did anything when I didn't?
What kind of lie would that be? One she could throw in my face, I imagine.
I bet she'd do that and then I'd have to live with the lie the rest of my life, or, admit I lied to shut her up and then guess what, I'm a liar on top of all she thinks I am.
I won't lie. I won't rewrite her childhood into some sort of fantasy poor girl so she can bond with her mentally ill best friend and blame me for her failed marriage too.
You know, he's a jerk to do what he did. However, I was told she threatened him many times with divorce because he started to get tired of the diaper changes and what not with my toddler grandson at the time. Imagine that.
She was very, very strict in everything concerning my grandson, almost to the point of OCD and it bugged me at times, but I imagine my son in law just couldn't continue taking it.
I already get enough space from them as it is. Any more and I might as well go full on estrangement. I might someday, but holding out to see if my grandson can change his perspective of her lies about me. He is young still and 8 years old. Been having behavioral problems too since his dad left.
My granddaughter is way smarter, though, didn't go through the trauma of dad leaving because she wasn't born yet.
When she told me some of what her mom talks to them about, she has already told me she knows it's not the truth, and she's only 5 years old!
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