Do I run for cover?

I am in a somewhat similar situation in that a family member has rejected our whole family apart from me and my daughter. I am sorry for you and everyone concerned. I don't think you should cut off your sister. Even if she is behaving badly.or has health problems that have helped to create this situation, I have no doubt she is in a lot of pain. You can listen to her and sympathize with her distress. But if she wants more than that, just keep saying that you can't help her or your niece resolve something that is between them. Stay calm when she is going on about it to you and try not to worry about it or distress yourself about it at other times.
I don't think you need to cut your niece off either. I imagine she doesn't want to discuss it with you. You could say to her too that you don't want to act as a go between between her and her mother other than letting her mother know, if she asks, that you have seen your niece and she is OK.

You have to control this situation yourself and not allow your sister to control it. Be there for your niece as per norm. Re your sister you need to be very assertive and put boundaries in place ie. Tell her that you flatly refuse to discuss your niece with her, as being her mother, it’s down to her to try to repair their damaged relationship, not you. Your sister must be told it’s so wrong of her to drag your kids into it too. If she dosent respect your wishes, then you may have to sever all ties, knowing you’ve done all you can to help. Don’t allow yourself to be dragged along with your sisters unreasonable behaviour, it will drag you down. Maybe that’s why your niece stepped away ?

I would write an email addressed to your sister stating very clearly that you very much want to continue the relationship you have with her BUT you are not prepared to discuss your niece with her just in the same way that you do not discuss sister with niece. Add that you hope she will respect your point of view as you are feeling very harassed by her at the moment as are your children and you feel your own wellbeing is at risk.

How would you like one of yours to live with her,

I think it is my sister contacting my own children about it that has made me defensive.

I just wanted to say how much I appreciate the good advice and I have a few things I have taken from it.

There is no way I would stop my relationship with my niece. It hurts me that it hurts my sister but I cannot help that without hurting 2 more people, myself and my niece and then there is a possibility of my children being affected more.

I have looked into low contact carefully and I can see how putting boundaries in place with my sister would help. I will do that in time but I want to get it absolutely right in how it is all phrased.

I have in my mind that hurt people hurt people and I do understand that my sister cannot see at present that she is hurting me with her behaviour. I know my niece has blocked her avenues for contact and for a moment it seemed a way out of the situation even temporarily so I am so grateful for the alternative routes I can use to try and keep my relationships healthy with better boundaries and not responding where they are crossed.

Family relationships are difficult. I am the mother of two children, one of whom supports me and always has, one who comes and goes. One whom I see often and the other whom I have not seen for over 3 years.., who may just turn up one day when it suits them. It is incredibly hurtful. My sister lives very close by and is visited weeekly by my estranged child. She doesn’t realise that the visit is being used to hurt me. We have disagreed over this, but she feels that she is giving support to them. It is incredibly hurtful for me but I am just glad that my child has some contact with my family. I understand how distressing it is for both of you, but it sounds like they both need you. Try not to lose contact with either of them if at all possible.

There is no way I would stop my relationship with my niece.

But you might with your sister.

fancythat

^There is no way I would stop my relationship with my niece.^

But you might with your sister.

Do you think I should? I don't think I could do that, I just know I need a break from it right now.

No, I dont think you should.

Family dynamics can be complicated, and it's difficult for readers on here to know the full story or any of the background, but I know that if my daughter cut me out but continued to see my sister on a regular basis it would increase the hurt immeasurably.

I have no idea how I would deal with that, and I don't know how far you have considered your sister's feelings in all of this. You haven't mentioned that, just your right to have a relationship with her daughter, and your worries about your own MH. You do have that right, of course, but it sounds as though your sister's MH could be suffering, and (to me) it would be understandable if she felt betrayed, whether you see it like that or not.

Perhaps consider keeping both relationships totally separate, telling each you won't talk about one to the other. Silence being golden seems apt.

An excellent response Doodledog.

DogWhisperer

I'm looking at this problem from the other side of the fence, so to speak. We have two estranged children and one not. We know that our two EAC are in contact with our non-estranged son and also with my brother and sister and their children. The way I look at it is that everyone in the family is an adult now, so it's entirely their business who they choose to have relationships with.

My wife thinks differently. She thinks I should speak to my sister about it. I am totally not going to speak to my sister about it because it's none of my business.

Applying this thinking to your situation, it seems to me that your sister is in the wrong by chasing everyone obsessively and it would therefore be unfair to punish your niece by saying that you cannot continue your relationship with her because of the effect it's having on her mum.

So I would be in favour of you continuing your relationship with your niece but trying to help your sister come to terms with what has happened and act more normally in a way which doesn't wind everyone up. For example, would your sister be up for reading a book about the dos and don'ts of managing an estrangement, or seeing a therapist with some knowledge of estrangement? It sounds like your sister is in danger of alienating her entire family if she doesn't change her behaviour.

What a very adult and sensible view.

Norah

Perhaps consider keeping both relationships totally separate, telling each you won't talk about one to the other. Silence being golden seems apt.

Sounds good, but it seems that won’t stop the mother of the estranged niece hounding her sister for info

Cossy

Norah

Perhaps consider keeping both relationships totally separate, telling each you won't talk about one to the other. Silence being golden seems apt.

Sounds good, but it seems that won’t stop the mother of the estranged niece hounding her sister for info

She could tell her sister "I'm NOT talking about..."

Rinse repeat.

I may have missed it, but how old is your niece, and is she living with you? How much contact do you have with her?

Sorry, but my impression is that you have become a surrogate mother to your niece, your sister is understandably annoyed, and with regard to the situation between mother and daughter you should withdraw at present from both of them and leave them to confront their problems. You can't have your own family involved in this dispute.

Yes I was wondering how old your niece is and if she's staying with you? It would be good if your sister was glad she has you to keep an eye on her daughter. If she didn't where would your niece go? Not knowing her age, I'm assuming she's an adult. Whatever went on between them sounds serious. I think I'd talk to your niece and be upfront with the situation you are in. It would be good if your niece would see her mum for a chat, as ideally the aim would be for them to talk about the issues they have. Unless you know of any reason why they couldn't meet up?

You also say you've also been incredibly close to your niece. Maybe you can reassure your sister that you're not trying to replace her.

I love my sister and I have been there for her a great deal. My issue stems from the fact that her behaviour towards me is becoming unbearable and she does not allow any time for anything else in our relationship. This is all she will talk about. Holidays, special occasions, lunches together all return to this and time is not healing, time is bringing more anger. I see them both equally. I know my niece is in counselling which my sister will not consider. I have tried to recommend help for her and found none. I came here looking for support for her and but she will not consider support for her to move forward with her life.

I know she is angry I am in contact with my niece and our relationship is unchanged but I fail to see how severing that connection and estranging someone myself would help or how I could live with myself if I did? My niece refuses to put me in the middle and my sister tries to force me there and I almost feel like that is all I mean to my sister now. My life is of no interest to her otherwise.

You need to decide how much you are going to tolerate from your sister, for your own mental health.

If your relationship suffers and your sister has had warning of what can happen if she does not stop her behaviour, it is her doing, not yours.

If i were you, In a visit to your sister, i would give her a warning to stop bringing her daugher up because i would leave.
She does it again, i leave.

Same in next visit. Skip next visit.
I think it is more than gracious and giving your sister a chance to see the error or her ways

It's good to hear your niece is in counselling. It sounds really difficult for you. Only your sister can decide if she wants to see a counsellor. So maybe for your own wellbeing you might like to see one as they may have some very supportive strategies on how you can move forward with this. I think that is what I would do for my own sanity.

In my experience you can do some things to protect yourself. Try to put in place some firm boundaries with your sister. Make it clear to your sister that you love her, but that atm you feel "caught in the middle", and that is unfair of her to pressurize you, that you find it stressful, but that you love her and will stay in touch, on the understanding that she doesn't continually cross examine you about it all each time you speak. Change the subject, etc. Your sister needs to reign in her anxiety, and calm down. You could suggest therapy for her. I have some experience of being the estranged person, so understand her sense of panic, but alas that is an unhelpful emotion. So, I do understand the hurt and anxiety that is engendered by being the abandoned party, but your sister needs to be given some firm boundaries, and told that the situation is unbearable for you too. Try to calm down, (not trigger) her escalating behaviour. You could try to say that you don't find it helps her to discuss it, other than confirming all is well. Otherwise you will continue to feel caught up in it all. I hope that it resolves itself with time. Good luck.

You do not have to estrange your niece, simply reduce the amount of contact for a period of time. Your relationship is clearly distressing your sister, on top of being estranged from her daughter, reasons undisclosed, and a period of being left to their own reflections might bring calm to the situation.

My advice to you would be to distance yourself from sister and daughter for a time but I rather get the impression you have little intention of doing so.
I fail to see how severing that connection and estranging someone myself would help or how I could live with myself if I did?
You do not have to estrange your niece or your sister, just be less available. simply reduce contact for a period.

I understand you not wanting to stop seeing your niece InRainbows and I don't think you should have too but I also feel that you're unable or possibly unwilling to see the impact that this is having on your sister.

Have you considered that the very close relationship you've described having with your niece; spending weeks of holiday time at your home beautifully set with a pool and her friends staying many times, may have left your sister feeling she was in competition with you over her D and not winning, even before this estrangement happened.

I was wondering why you said in your OP that you often babysat for your niece in the school holidays, even though your sister never worked. Maybe it's just me but that came across as a bit critical/judgemental of your sister.

It sounds like you are not planning to abandon your niece which is great. Your sister will have feelings about it but it's not your job to figure that out for her. She needs to seek help for herself.

The idea that you should cut off your niece or otherwise reduce support because of your sister's emotional manipulation is absurd. It sounds like childhood mean girl tactics.