Regretting Reconciliation

NotSpaghetti

Well I do see all these the things you say - but even if no change was ever possible I think I might feel that saying aloud (calmly) why I was leaving might help me psychologically.

It validates why you are leaving to yourself - if nothing else.

The screaming that follows is (as you have said), not "normal" and it is another pressure regarding the neighbours. - I can understand why!

Counselling and mediated conversations will not get her mother to change her attitudes because she sees no problem with them and she does not see what people are so bothered about.
IS she bothered about any other people at all?
...but she IS bothered about herself!
I do realise that I'm fortunate in that I'm not coming from the same place as those of you who have suffered with or through estrangement and it's maybe all useless.

For some time I worked using MET (Motivational Enhancement Therapy) and I think this, and other similar therapies, have potential with narcissists. It is certanly helpful for drug users - who i have seen change their behaviour and thoughts quite quickly.
It leverages their sense of self-preservation and autonomy - given they have an intense need for control. It works with this by emphasising that they are the one in charge of changing.

It might be worth looking at some sort of therapy if she ever has a moment where she seems to want to live a more comfortable life.

Has your mother developed any friends in Greece or are you her only real contact?

She has very tumultuous relationships. I will look into MET. When she lived in America her only friends were people who did not live in her city and that she would see maybe once a year and talk to on the phone. She lived a ten minute drive from my sister who would see her about once a month. After I went NC she spent her days alone. She has not made friends in Greece but it hasn't changed much because she still has an American phone line to talk to her distant friends.

I'm sorry you went through that. It does sound very similar to my experience. I have insisted on a caretaker who comes three times a week to chat with her and do some house cleaning. The caretaker also eases my guilt if I just can't be around her for the day and only go to her flat to set up her pills.

OP, you sound like such a lovely daughter, your mum is very lucky to have you. As her neighbours are also your neighbours, are you familiar with them enough to have a chat with them and explain any screaming so that your mother can no longer use that tactic against you?

This above message was meant to be a reply to Careen156

stillawipp

OP, you sound like such a lovely daughter, your mum is very lucky to have you. As her neighbours are also your neighbours, are you familiar with them enough to have a chat with them and explain any screaming so that your mother can no longer use that tactic against you?

Thank you stillawipp. I do know the owners of many of the apartments and I have talked with them and they understand she is not well. I live in a vacation area so some apartments are holiday rentals.

Hithere
I definitely think she uses the screaming as a tactic. When I just get up and leave that is a moment she loses control. The leaving worked well for a month and then the screaming/crying when I left started. I imagine in her mind, the act of leaving is me trying to control her.

M0nica
I agree that my mom is not capable of change. While she is critical of others, I think her sense of self is so fragile that taking on any critiques of her own behavior would cause her to crumble.

I agree with Monica that this is a situation to be managed at this point. She will never listen, she will never change and all you can do now is protect yourself and manage the situation until she dies.

OP, my heart aches for you and I know exactly how you feel in this situation. For me, when I was in this position with my mother, I made the decision that I had to do what I felt was best for me, and that was helping to take care of her at the end, despite the fact that she didn't deserve it.

I am now in year 3 of therapy and am finally crossing the line of total healing from a lifetime of emotional abuse from her.

Beescrete

Hithere
I definitely think she uses the screaming as a tactic. When I just get up and leave that is a moment she loses control. The leaving worked well for a month and then the screaming/crying when I left started. I imagine in her mind, the act of leaving is me trying to control her.

What happens if you say something like "I'm just going to give us both a break for a few minutes" and treat it as you would a child? Go outside, take a few deep breaths and go back in say, 5 or 10 mins?...
Has the screaming gone?

Some of this is clearly trial and error.
😬
And I acknowledge all of it may be useless!

@NotSpaghetti I like the idea of changing the language I use to taking a break. It is all trial and error but it's worth trying.

@imaround It's nice to hear from someone who's been in this situation. It's easy to feel like nobody can understand. My friends know I help take care of my mom but the only person here in Greece who really knows about her behavior is the caretaker because she has witnessed it and been on the receiving end.

@Smileless2012 I made a comment to you earlier that is bothering me. "I'm glad you replied because in trying to understand the other side of this situation" I want to be clear I do not think you are like my mother and I meant the other side of estrangement.

That's OK no need to worry, I know what you meant Beescrete x

@imaround
"I made the decision that I had to do what I felt was best for me, and that was helping to take care of her at the end" This is exactly how I feel, it's not a totally selfless act for me. When she passes, I don't want to spend my life regretting that I didn't help.

Allsorts

I am not excusing your mother. It does sound as despite what sounds like a traumatic upbringing she broke away from it and bought you up to be free thinking and confident enough to pursue living and working abroad. It sounds as if she has health issues and no friends so you are her only contact as you don't mention her having any, this is a big burden for anyone.
Can she not get out to mix with others a little, maybe she cannot speak the language I don't know, but she needs to expand her present life and her sole happiness can't depend on you.i haven't had your experiences, my mother was lovely but died too young, I know I wouldn't leave my mother in her old age but would do as you are doing even if she had been difficult. As for the screaming she needs telling you are not putting up with that as the Greek Police would be called by someone and you would be apart then. You cannot risk that happening. Next time she does it say she needs to see a doctor it sounds as if she has mental health issues starting as that's not right at all, perhaps you could see a doctor and ask them. That would help should someone report the screaming.

@Allsorts I missed this comment from you because as far as I can tell I don't get any notification of responses? As for friends, she had none visiting her in USA. She only had friends that live in other cities and see her maybe once a year. All local relationships have imploded to a point where they don't communicate. In Greece she has a caretaker who comes three days a week and chats with her while also doing some house keeping. We live in a village that is probably 30% British and nearly everyone speaks English. The scream/cry is one of the most stressful things she does. After she calms down from screaming I tell her, you don't have to stay with me, if you want we will find a retirement home in America. If you act like this and the police come it could endanger out residence permits and that choice will be taken away from us. If a neighbor called the police I would probably be fine but a residence permit that can be revoked so it creates alot of stress.

So many typos why is there no edit function😂

Beescrete

M0nica
I agree that my mom is not capable of change. While she is critical of others, I think her sense of self is so fragile that taking on any critiques of her own behavior would cause her to crumble.

This also describes many estranged parents on this forum, to a T.

@User148521 I spent days scrolling the posts on here before I shared and definitely saw a few that triggered me because I recognized the behavior my mom exhibits. I was pleasantly surprised to see that this forum is not an echo chamber and there were people acknowledging when an AP or an AC were crossing the line.

I just want to thank you for your post Beescrete as the EP's are often referred to here on GN as being an echo chamber when in reality, the EP's who regularly post here are always willing to give what comfort and support they can to anyone whose experiencing estrangement from 'the other side' so to speak.

Your acknowledgement of this fact is greatly appreciated .

its only natural to want to try again and reconcile. at the time it was only natural with her health to think it best to try again but obviously she has not change. hard as it is ill health or not maybe it is time to stop contact again

Smileless2012

I just want to thank you for your post Beescrete as the EP's are often referred to here on GN as being an echo chamber when in reality, the EP's who regularly post here are always willing to give what comfort and support they can to anyone whose experiencing estrangement from 'the other side' so to speak.

Your acknowledgement of this fact is greatly appreciated .

I was definitely expecting a toxic echo chamber and when I started looking here, I wasn't planning on sharing. I wanted to try my best to understand the EP's point of view. I said earlier there were posts that triggered me, on those posts I saw many commenters, including EPs, trying to help the EP understand their role in the situation.

@User148521
I hope my reply didn't come off as dismissive to you, because I didn't mean it to be. As I said before, I have seen very frustrating posts where it seems like the OP is totally blind to their failures. Bad behavior on here comes from both EPs and ACs. I'm sharing in this forum because there are both EPs and ACs commenting and I think it comes out more balanced.

@NotSpaghetti "What happens if you say something like "I'm just going to give us both a break for a few minutes" and treat it as you would a child?"
I tried this today and it worked well! I had been saying "if you keep talking to me like that I'm leaving" which in hindsight is unnecessarily aggressive and asking for conflict.

Beescrete

@User148521
I hope my reply didn't come off as dismissive to you, because I didn't mean it to be. As I said before, I have seen very frustrating posts where it seems like the OP is totally blind to their failures. Bad behavior on here comes from both EPs and ACs. I'm sharing in this forum because there are both EPs and ACs commenting and I think it comes out more balanced.

Its really nice to see your wise acknowledgement of this Beescrete 🙂

Beescrete thanks for popping back. Lots of us wish you well.
I do hope you manage to negotiate your difficult mum for your own sanity.

Also pleased you found that changing the language helped a bit.
Maybe finding a few new phrases will work (sort of in rotation?).
🤞