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Estrangement

Great. At least it all becomes clear.

(33 Posts)
Lavazza1st Fri 04-Dec-20 12:49:00

I finally messaged my Daughter in Law because of their (numerous, heavy and bulky) parcels which came here by mistake- I messaged my son 2 weeks ago to arrange pick up with him 2 weeks ago he said he didn't want to see anyone. After that he ignored me!

I found out from her that she thinks he has messaged me. He hasn't. I messaged him again today and he's definitely ignoring me.

So, I have come to the conclusion that he wants to cut us out of their lives and is lying to DiL that it's US ignoring them. Such a lie! Or it could be both of them not wanting to be in contact with us, but pretending it's the other one. Not sure what to think, but the ball is in their court now.

Toadinthehole Fri 04-Dec-20 12:58:04

Aww, bless you, what a mess and upset for you. I spoke to you on your last thread about all this....and still would encourage you to spend time, not just Christmas, but always, with the people you love...and who love and respect you back, as I’ve no doubt your son loves you, but for some reason, the respect has gone.
I’m glad it’s clearer now, and I hope you have a peaceful Christmas. Perhaps next year, you’ll be able to start again, but for now.....relaxation is the order of the day 💐

Hithere Fri 04-Dec-20 13:07:16

So your son knows their packages are being shipped to the wrong address and he has made no effort in picking them up?
Did I get that right?

Lavazza1st Fri 04-Dec-20 15:07:22

@Toadinthehole You're right. He does not respect me and has made that clear. He has even told me to my face, claiming it's "because you're divorced". I have now put their parcels out of sight. flowers

@Hithere yes. He said it was an accident and really wanted them. But when I offered that we would drive over there and he could come and get them from the car he said he didn't want to see anyone. It seems he's told his wife that he messaged us and we didn't reply so making it "our fault" that they didn't get their parcels. He is still refusing to talk but at least she gave me some explanation, although they could both be playing games.

At least the parcels are out of sight now (so I will forget them in a day or two haha) and I know not to make an effort unless they make an effort.

Smileless2012 Fri 04-Dec-20 16:23:30

Is there a return address on the parcels Lavazza if so you could always message him and say if he doesn't come and collect them, you'll send them back.

I hope you'll now be able to organise your Christmas without having to worry about whether or not they'll turn up.

Unfortunately the parcels, like our EAC may out of sight, but rarely out of mind.

Lavazza1st Fri 04-Dec-20 16:40:35

They came from a well known store @Smileless2012 but Mr Lavazza accepted them without thinking. I did think about asking the store if they could accept them back but I suspect they would want a receipt and obviously that would require cooperation from our son ( not likely)

I sent Christmas cards today and have a date in mind by which I will be posting Christmas gifts to GC and perhaps them ( I can't decide if I should include them or not ) if I don't have satisfactory communication from them. I feel it's best we plan for Christmas without them.

Our EAC aren't out of mind, I know.... unfortunately. I'm not going to beg or chase him, though. I know we deserve better than being baited, punished, ignored and put through the wringer. I think my son wants to be chased, but I won't play those games.

Hithere Fri 04-Dec-20 16:42:45

So he knowz where his parcels and not interested.

I would stop contacting him and his wife.

Lavazza1st Fri 04-Dec-20 16:48:24

After initially mentioning that the parcels were here, I left it two weeks before mentioning it once more. I won't be mentioning it again @Hithere

It does seem very strange... and I'm not making the effort if they don't make the effort.

V3ra Fri 04-Dec-20 17:01:03

How bizarre to order numerous parcels which are delivered to your address "by mistake," when he wants nothing to do with you?
I think if any more arrive I'd be tempted to tell the courier they weren't mine and refuse delivery.

Lavazza1st Fri 04-Dec-20 17:11:34

I know, it is really odd behaviour ! We will not be accepting any more parcels, for definite.

Astral Fri 04-Dec-20 17:35:41

How strange that he and his wife aren't on the same page here. Did she seem genuinely confused or do you think she panicked a bit and told a fib about thinking he had replied?

Perhaps he is really not ok at the moment. I've seen a few people I know have breakdowns under the stress recently.

Astral Fri 04-Dec-20 17:37:40

Having said that trying to guess the reason probably isn't helpful. Thinking it could be one thing might dictate how you communicate and make things worse.

Hopefully you will hear something positive soon.

Lavazza1st Fri 04-Dec-20 17:43:20

@Astral I don't know for certain, but she said she thought he already contacted me about the parcels and she does want them. Then after I pointed out that he's not been in contact she said she would talk to him and then later she said "right now he's not ready"

My son's known to be divisive and has suffered with mental health a lot over the years, so it could either be him wanting to be divisive or him actually ill and I don't know which. He doesn't like me talking to her and vice versa, so I don't usually message her. He actually checks her phone and reads every message and doesn't like her to talk to family. Anyway, it's best I don't message again until he gets in touch by himself.

Astral Fri 04-Dec-20 22:52:57

Not sure what else you could do Lavazza1st. Hopefully he will get through it

Chewbacca Fri 04-Dec-20 23:06:57

Perhaps he is really not ok at the moment. I've seen a few people I know have breakdowns under the stress recently.

Hmmm, I'm not convinced by this tbh. Your son is clearly ok to be placing orders for what are possibly Christmas gifts so he's forward planning isn't he? I think that when he placed the orders he simply forgot to update the delivery for his current address, hence they came to you. If I'd received them and offered to go to the trouble of getting them to him, but he couldn't even be bothered walking from his front door to your car to collect them, they'd be going in the bin. Leave him to stew Lavazza; at least you know how many to cater for at Christmas now. smile

Kalu Fri 04-Dec-20 23:18:58

I would be giving the parcels to charity, if he doesn’t want them unless you feel you do want to store them, until he is ready to make contact.

Chewbacca Fri 04-Dec-20 23:22:13

That's a much better idea Kalu. Far more sensible!

FarNorth Fri 04-Dec-20 23:48:33

He actually checks her phone and reads every message and doesn't like her to talk to family.

That's awful.
It's overbearing controlling behaviour from your son to his wife, which isn't healthy for either of them.

FarNorth Fri 04-Dec-20 23:53:32

I think you're doing the right thing Lavazza1st by having the parcels out of sight and leaving it to your son and his wife to contact you, if they wish.

Lavazza1st Sat 05-Dec-20 00:42:59

@Astral me too!

@Chewbacca it was household things that they likely need or that his wife wants (I could see what they were as it was written on the outside of the box)
He made the mistake of sending them to his old address (our house) but rather than swallow his pride and accept help or make an arrangement to pick them up he told his wife that he had messaged us and we weren't replying! I only found that out today shock

I have put the parcels out of sight for now. It's their money and their responsibility to decide what to do. If I give them to charity then he has won because he has been lying to her about us, trying to get her not to trust us. She asked me to keep them, so I will. I know she can't do anything with him when he's like this. I know what hes like.

@FarNorth yes he is very controlling, unfortunately. He does not like her to talk to me, so I probably won't hear from her again until he's either asleep or he allows her. I don't want to cause problems for her, either, so I am going to leave it.

I have Christmas gifts for GC. Probably going to post those and say nothing to either of them.

welbeck Sat 05-Dec-20 03:30:14

i know you've said you would keep them, but i'm concerned at some people suggesting you destroy/give away those parcels.
legally i think that would put you in the wrong.
and he could possibly sue you for conversion.
it would be reasonable to attempt to return them to sender, and or inform him where they are, which you have done. but i think you ought to keep them there for 3 months before disposing. and after having given notice of that intention and date. this is directed not so much at you OP. just some things jump out at me.
i don't know the background, but could DIL pick them up. sounds as if she is under some abusive control by him. could you just send an email to both of them, stating the parcels are there, either one of them can come pick them up, best let you know when, to be sure you are in, or if you can leave them in unlocked garage/shed if you have such.
all the best.

DiscoDancer1975 Sat 05-Dec-20 10:46:04

What a difficult situation for you Lavazzalst. My advice would also be to put yourself first, and members of your family who are supportive. I think someone with mental health issues would be perfectly capable of ordering presents on line, depending on the severity I suppose. As regards keeping them, I think there are laws about this sort of thing, holding possessions. You may have to give him notice to ‘ quit’, a bit like a tenant, and then it is lawful to do with them as you wish. I think you’re right though, about keeping them, if it keeps your DIL on side. You may need her at some future date. I do hope you manage to resolve it all, but in the meantime, put it all to one side and have a lovely Christmas.

Lavazza1st Sat 05-Dec-20 11:11:12

@Welbeck I said to her that if he doesn't want to talk to us then he can make an arrangement with my other child, who lives with us. I think it would only support his divisive schemes if we were to prevent DiL getting her kitchen equipment. I honestly think he does not care about her wishes and would rather use the situation to point score.

@DiscoDancer1975 Thanks, yes I am not making more effort. I will not play the game, so he has no one to play with. He does have MH issues, which are likely exacerbated by some drugs he may be taking. I don't think we've done anything wrong and I have many messages on my phone of ways I've tried to help him get the parcels. He won't meet us half way! We offered to drive the parcels over to him if he would come and get them out of the car. He refused! He doesn't want to come here either as they don't have a car and he couldn't carry them all himself.

Christmas is a dilemma. I'm not expecting them to come or to invite us there. I miss my GC, but there we are. In the same boat as many other good people flowers

FarNorth Sat 05-Dec-20 13:33:49

Lavazza1st
You are doing all you can, including considering DiL's needs as she must be in a very difficult situation.
thanks

Lavazza1st Sat 05-Dec-20 20:19:20

Thanks @FarNorth Yes she must be. flowers

It's kind of you to say so. I feel a bit disloyal to him for considering DiL's needs, but he doesn't seem to and she doesn't have anyone else. But he twists everything good and kind I do, for bad. (Might be manipulation, might be MH?) So I am going to take a rest and not put any effort in.