Article on older women, ageism and feminism

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There is an interesting theory to which I will refer when confronted with combined ageism and feminism. Briefly, it proposes that human evolution took a great leap forward with the menopause and female longevity because younger women who were mothers could benefit from the knowledge and experience of their own mothers, who did not have young children of their own requiring time-consuming maternal care, while at the same time, expanding their own knowledge and experience.

In spite of all the grandstanding and absurd movie-making about cavemen hunting sabre-toothed tigers and woolly mammoths – and I wonder what on earth those tasted like – most hunger-gatherer communities (ancient, more recent past and present) relied much more on the gathering than hunting and that was mainly women's work. How helpful it would be if your mum passed on her own carefully guarded knowledge of where to find the fattest berries, how to take the honey without being stung by bees and which plants were best avoided.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose. There are many gransnetters who share their wisdom about relationships, cooking, childcare, removing stains from clothes, saucepans and children's hands, and many, many other aspects of modern life, including, of course, working life outside the home in what is still a man's world, with their daughters. (I am not denigrating mother-son relationships, but this theory is to do with mothers and daughters). We do it instinctively and don't we love it?

When booking a GP appointment I'm occasionally asked whether I willing to see a (male or female) trainee GP. I've found their fresh approach and up to date knowledge can give a helpful different perspective.

Luckyducky - my DD a few years ago warned me not to accept 'you must expect it at your age'. It seemed to be the attitude of older male GPs.

It get my goat (where did that saying come from), when I see photographs in magazines for a facial or hair product being advertised for the "older woman and the girl-woman is about 20-25

I was surprised to find one of the most ageist groups are male GPs. It's easy for them to fob off a patient by saying it's "age related". I've found locums a pleasant surprise. They really listen and act on what I've
told/shown them.

But, why is it when I've an appointment to be seen a specialist I assume it will be a man?

Maybe I'm no better than my GP

My small grandson (aged 6) and I had a lovely country walk, both of us had walking sticks, and we're chatting, as you do! when he turned to me and thoughtfully and gravely said that he had a stick because he was little, and I had a stick because I was old!!!!! Out of the mouths etc!! Thing is it's totally true!!!

So do I, Magicmaggie, but not to the colour it was when I was 20.
A friend was showing me her daughter's wedding photos the other day and I noticed a tall, striking woman in a turquoise shirt tunic, with cropped red hair.
I asked who it was - the bridegroom's grandma!

Like Jane , I like to wear make-up but I also dye my hair.
I had decided to stop dyeing it until a recent incident changed my mind.
I was on a coach trip with a group of white haired ladies.
One evening after we had had our dinner and I was about to leave the restaurant and join the others in the lounge for coffee, the young waitress who had served our table came up to me with a shawl and asked if I could point out the lady who owned it, she then added "I don't know which one she is THEY ALL LOOK THE SAME TO ME.
Needless to say I still dye my hair.

Slap on a bit of Nivea, keep smiling, and let nature take it's course!
nannanoo Thank you for that memory of my DM whose sole concession to 'beauty' that was, on very rare occasions supplemented by red lipstick and a dab of rouge
I find putting make up on definitely lifts my mood and dare I say it, in some situations, my confidence.

I never wear makeup,only lipstick.Im fussy with my hair though.As long as I can stay healthy,that's the most important thing,(fingers crossed)

Most of us dont seem to need make-up to cheer ourselves up. Though I appreciate that everyone is different.

Obviously not understood my posts Soontobe. I can only suggest you re-read my last one.

Presumably the 'we' in the OP refers to society not valuing older women. I really don't care what 'society' thinks of me personally, so long as those close to me, family and friends, continue to 'value' me.

I expect that goes for most of us.

Does anyone remember the actress who played the "old Rose" in the film Titanic? Now, there was beauty.

But also, who among us really cares? I wasn't beautiful when I was young – a plain child, a gawky teenager and an attractive enough (just) young woman with a good figure and terrific legs. I still have terrific legs but the good figure, while continuing to be the same size in clothes, has travelled somewhat south and become rather lumpy owing to several sessions of emergency surgery. The brain, however, has become more informed, the experience has modified ideas and opinions, the love for grandchildren has extended the love not just to absentdaughter but to many others s well and qualities in myself that I believed important then I still believe important and they have grown and expanded.

If people fail to recognise the value of these things, that is their loss, not mine.

Must admit I don't mind getting older, but I try not to be frumpy.

If I look as good as my Mum does when I am her age, that would be great.

And without one gender being pressured to spend an extra half an hour a day and extra money making themselves look a certain way to get on in the workplace

Only certain types of work I think.

JessM. For someone who is anti women having to wear makeup, you seem to wear it and care about it more than average I would say.

Nobody is obligated to make their faces up or look younger.Its choice.

I quite agree.

Pfffft - we're all much too busy looking after our future generations to worry about a few wrinkles and saggy bits.
Slap on a bit of Nivea, keep smiling, and let nature take it's course!

Okay Nicola Sturgeon isn't an older woman, but at 45 she is only 10 years younger than me and getting close to when the media will start referring to her as an older woman. My point is she looks good and dresses well, plus I like that she doesn't look high maintenance. I am not an SNP supporter, I was just trying to think of a woman in the public eye doing a worthwhile job who looks good. It's not that easy.

Don't get me wrong, I like Judy and Maggie, but I would never aspire to look like them at their age. They do look natural though, unlike Joanna or Joan. I like how Twiggy looks in her M&S campaigns, it's just a shame she doesn't look like that in real life and allows her photos to be so heavily photoshopped. Lorraine Kelly and Gloria Hunniford look good to me.

I think red lipstick is hard for any woman to wear well, no matter what age and I cringe when I see a woman wearing red lipstick that clashes with her teeth. Can't believe I am typing this, but the shade of your teeth is as important as your skin tone when choosing a lipstick.

JessM mentioned it first, grumppa!

Anyway, I'd probably be invisible to you, too...

So as an older man I have become invisible to Ana! Farewell, cruel world.

Nobody is obligated to make their faces up or look younger.Its choice.
Judy Dench always looks lovely.I love her.

I think red lipstick can look rather garish and clown-like on some older faces - it probably depends on your skin tone but as I've hardly ever worn lipstick a red shade would be a step too far for me!

I agree that some of our facial features tend to lose definition with age, and would never go out without wearing foundation and eye makeup (especially the eyebrow gel).

I've never thought about it before but it's true - older men have become 'invisible' to me as well...

Sorry - did not mean to offend Margaretx and hope you are well.
Yes GN was very chummy in the early days when it was small enough that we all felt knew each other.
I've have yet to spot another woman of my age wearing red lipstick in this neck of the woods. Which is rather out on the fringes of the UK. I think make up can be a way of cheering oneself up, as long as it is not something people feel they have to do to please others or conform. You see a lot of young women these days in UK who are obviously feeling pressured to adhere to a very demanding standard - the large silicon implants, the false eyelashes, the hair extensions, the nail extensions etc.

Jess you are preaching to the converted with me! I thought you knew me better from the beginning when we all posted more than now.
My post was quick and I picked on the one salient point which was uppermost in my mind.

I wear make up, I like it but am often the only woman wearing lipstick in any group in Germany, mine is pale and my daughters wear lipstick for special occasions but neither of them wear make up for work nor do they work with women wearing make up.
Could be that German women have lovely tanned skins well into the winter months, but my agegroup almost never wear make up.

oh I think Judi Dench is rather chic and that the drapey-hippy look suits her very well.
MargaretX there is a bit more to it than that. Daughters and sons should have a level playing field without one gender doing more than half share of housework and child work. And without one gender being pressured to spend an extra half an hour a day and extra money making themselves look a certain way to get on in the workplace. And when women are not the victims of so much male-female violence.
Invisibility sets in when hair and features become less prominent perhaps. Faces become a bit blurred and some of our facial expressions less noticeable. I have been tinting my fading eyebrows for a while now and since the formula for the dye changed and became more fiddly, discovered i can have it done in the local beautician for £8 every couple of months. phew. Red lipstick is another anti-invisibility device.
I have noticed in recent years that older men also become invisible to me... Interesting.

My favourite role model for older women is Sheila Hancock. She is so intelligent, articulate and confident, and always looks so elegant. She is nearer 80 than 70, but doesn't look it, though I'm guessing she hasn't gone down the surgery route. It's just that she's such an interesting person you don't think of categorising her as one age or another.