Grandparents' rights/family law webchat - Weds 10 July 4.30-5.30pm

Andimerry

My daughter's partner has a child as a result of a very brief affair he had shortly before he met her. He has always paid for his son and seen him as often as possible - which has meant travelling several hours in an evening because they live in another town - but the child's mother often refuses contact at the last minute. She is particularly prone to do this when my daughter has planned something - a family party, a weekend away. The mother seems to take pleasure in wrecking the family's arrangements.

I would like my daughter's partner to stand up to this woman more and threaten to get legal enforcement but (I think influenced by fathers for Justice publicity) he thinks that fathers are not given priority by the courts and he might end up not seeing his son at all.

I think this is ridiculous given how exemplary his behaviour has been. What can I say to persuade him?

Hello Andimerry,
You are right to suggest he stands up to this behaviour. He doesn't at the moment sound as if he has a contact order, so he does not have anything to enforce yet, but I suggest he try to see a local specialist solicitor (perhaps asking for an initial free consultation) and take advice. It may be possible for the two parents to meet in mediation to resolve this, or he may need to pursue an application for contact. It's wrong to say fathers are not given priority by the courts - the more usual problem is father's shirking their responsibilities. It seems he is a devoted and active father, and the court is likely to recognise this with a court order in his favour. Good luck

leila

I would appreciate some guidance on how custody arrangements from a legal perspective. Is it automatic that a mother has the advantage in terms of the children living with her? It seems very unfair that many hands-on fathers are reduced to seeing their children every other weekend even if they have played no part in the breakdown of the relationship

Hi Leila,
There is no 'automatic' anything is children's proceedings - it is all governed by the idea that the child's welfare is paramount. So, it is not automatic for the mother to have an advantage, and I have represented many fathers who have successfully obtained custody (residence). In many cases, the reality is that one person is simply more available to care for the child, or has a much closer relationship. The key is for father's to establish extensive involvement prior to the relationship breaking down. Easier said then done, I realise. Obviously geography also plays a part - if the parents live 20 minutes apart, the other parent can more easily be involved mid-week, then when the parents are many hundreds of miles apart
Hope this helps

swizzle

Have you (as a lawyer) managed to secure access for grandparents to their grandchildren when it has previously been denied? It would be uplifting to know that some stories have happy endings

Dear Swizzle,

The straight answer is yes - and despite the horror stories from some, I would hope I am not the only one who has had some uplifting results

imbroglio

I feel for you as we are about to be involved in a child pre-care conference which has been brought on a totally false premise. We were advised to contact a lawyer which we did, and after the initial introduction, we were told and I quote, "if social workers say jump ,we say, how high??? He meant lawyers, so what hope have we of them speaking for us? I have researched this corrupt system and been absolutely blown away at the so-called legal process in this country. I believe the outcome is decided before court, between the "mega bucks" cohorts who all agree on penance of "consequences" if they don't. I have written reports from so-called professionals giving our child true and glowing assessments and then to see others from the same person repudiating that report. God help us all, and the taxpayers who fund it all.

Hi imbroglio,

I am not sure if I follow what you are suggesting. I don't know which part of the system you feel is corrupt. Who are the "mega buck cohorts"? I have been working in the legal system for over 20 years, and I have not seen corruption nor do I believe there are vested interests or people with money controlling the outcome. I am sorry you have had such a negative experience

Maniac

Heard that 1 in 4 under 16's have separated parents.A campaign 'Kids in the Middle'is planned to give them a voice.
David do you know anything about this?

Hi (again)
I have read about them, and the aims of the organisation sound to be just what is needed. It will provide information for children and young people. At the moment it's at the stage of seeking funding - let's hope they manage to raise the funds. They have a website- take a look

cookies

Hi David. I'm not really sure if this is your remit, but I'll give it a shot. DH and I haven't written a will. In the event that something was to happen to both of us, who would our son go to? Would he automatically go to his grandparents - and if so - which set of grandparents? Is there a law on this kind of thing? <clueless>

Hi cookies
No, a child in this situation would not automatically go to the grandparents, and that's why I would always advise parents to nominate a guardian in their will - as that person will then have parental responsibility for the child on the death of the parent.
A guardian can be any adult the parent thinks is suitable and is willing to take the child on.
It is then expected that the guardian would step forward at the point of the parents death to look after the child.
In the absence of a guardian, the immediate family will end up having to make arrangements, and if there is a dispute, the court will need to be asked to resolve it

ticktock

In the eyes of the law - is it better to be married?

Hello ticktock
Depends for whom? For the child, the mother, the father??
From the father's perspective - the key is parental responsibility - father's acquire this by marriage, being on the birth certificate, or by agreement. So for them, the important thing (in terms of status, and if necessary applications to the court) is parental responsbility

LyndaW

Is the law changing about this? At what stage does the government start looking into changing how things work and giving grandparents' more rights?

Are the any other countries that you know of where the law is different and is more fair to extended families when it comes to situations like this?

Hi LyndaW
The law may be changing - but is not envisaging giving grandparents more rights. In September 2012, the government published draft legislation and proposes introducing 'child arrangement orders' which are intended to focus more on resolving disputes rather than attaching labels such as residence and contact. There was talk of recognising the status of grandparents, and getting rid of the need for grandparents to apply for permission to make an application, but the government have not adopted this proposal - so sadly no change
As for other countries, I am sorry not to be more knowledgable. Others may be able to help on this

Maniac

David .We were not aware of the false allegations against me(attempted abduction) my son and our family(mental health issues and possible bipolar) until towards the end of the actual court hearing. I was not present.
Would we have to go to court again to challenge these allegations?

It depends. if you have been denied contact as a result, you could apply for a contact order, and as part of that you would need to ask the court to reopen this issue and hear further evidence
Good luck with this

closetgran

David, my question is about transfer of money between generations. The old are always being encouraged to downshift and my mother has recently done so and handed over to her children some of the proceeds of the sale of her house. She is independent and perfectly competent at the moment, although showing some signs of confusion (repetition etc) which worry us. In the worst case that she were to need care at some point, what would be the status of the money that had been handed over - would the local authority seek to reclaim it? What if it had been spent?!

Dear closetgran,
This is a specialist area, and I would suggest you consult an expert in this field, sooner rather than later.

lollybushell

I wonder if anyone has ever approached this subject from the perspective of the grandchildren. There is an organisation in the USA called AGA alienation of grandparents anonymous. This situation unfortunately is worldwide and so many of us are in this sad situation. I am wondering what the children feel about this. Has anyone got experience of grandchildren coming to find their grandparents when they are older and did they see this alienation as a form of abuse ? I would be pleased to hear any success stories and to know how grandchildren feel about their parents not allowing them to see their grandparents.

Dearl lollybushell
The concept of alienation in its various forms is very familiar to family lawyers. I suspect many others will have experiences to share about this

iMac

Is it a myth that the mother nearly always gets custody of the child?

Hi iMac,
There are so many myths out there - where to start!
As a fact, the majority of pre-school children are looked after by mothers (unless both parents working) When it comes to custody after a divorce/separation, this 'fact' is probably reflected in the eventual arrangements agreed between the parents or ordered by courts. I am not sure it follows that courts are anti-fathers, or pro-mothers. But this is not a rule or a pre-determined outcome. The outcome should always be determined by the child's welfare. For older children, the picture and the outcomes are perhaps more varied.

Thanks very much to everyone her at Gransnet for inviting me. I hope some of my responses have been helpful - and I wish you all the best
David