commitment

Yes pompa it really is horses for courses. Our first GC was born with a horrendous cleft which made feeding very difficult. Her mum needed to work for more reasons than the money and I wasn't prepared for anyone else to look after her than me. A nursery would not have coped in the way that someone who really loved her would. If that sounds big headed so be it. We bonded in a way I have not with my other GC much as I love them.

I don't think anyone is saying parents should expect to rely on grandparents for childcare pompa; all families and situations are different. Like ethel my DD and SIL are not in a position to afford childcare and were much less so when DGS was born almost 5 years ago. Even if they had been, I wouldn't have missed the last 5 years for anything. However that's not really the point, the point is that if GPs make that commitment it's not fair to let parents down at very short notice. I think it's important to have a very clear understanding at the outset and if unexpected events crop up, like ethel's illness, then there needs to be some flexibility on all sides. I think the other GP expecting to swan off on holiday at a moment's notice is completely unreasonable.

We are very fortunate to have 8 DGC and so far we have "committed" for 14.5 years, albeit 2 or 3 days a week!
We give a months notice if we go away for a few days.
We currently have 2, under 3 years ,and think our minding days might be ending in 4 years time. School runs and school holiday times are always busy though.
We love being part of their lives.

If grandparents can help with childcare regularly then that's marvellous but just to assume and expect unending 'commitment' seems a bizarre concept. Even if it were a totally business arrangement between a commercial childcare provider (whether a single child-minder or nursery) there will always be occasions when things to do not go smoothly and changes have to be made - believe me I used to run pre-schools and knew many childcarers.

A Grandparent is a person, they have a life - an expectation of choice I should hope. If there has been detailed and exhaustive discussions and formal arrangements made for permanent childcare, then perhaps an unscheduled holiday would be inconsiderate but open-ended arrangements between family members MUST be considerately negotiated and ALL parties wishes and needs taken into account.

Its not about 'commitment' its much more about consideration, respect and being a loving parent/child and grandparent (on all sides).

Well said HildaW

I haven't read all of the answers so far, so I'm sorry if I'm repeating something that has already been said.

My question is, how many of those grandparents providing childcare were consulted before the children were even conceived? A small minority, I bet. So what would those parents have done if the grandparents not offered / declined the request to take on this huge commitment?

While I quite agree that those of us who do regular childcare for our DGC should not suddenly drop the parents in it, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect to have at least as many holidays a year as our children (if we can afford it, that is!).
Also, shouldn't our children should be booking their holidays around ours, not vice-versa. Mine certainly don't consult me before booking any holidays, and the times they choose for their holidays aren't usually at a convenient time for us to take ours.
I gave my DS and DiL six months notice that I want a fortnight off in September, yet when I mentioned it again (for the umpteenth time) this week, there were comments about them hoping that they still had enough day's holiday left to cover it! Why should I be made to feel guilty, when I take fewer holidays than they do?

Yes, well said HildaW

How many weeks' holiday a year is your daughter entitled to, Ethelbags? I think that most people have at least four nowadays, don't they, at least once bank holidays are included?

Is it really unreasonable to expect your daughter to use some (though hopefully not all) of that to look after her own children when MiL is on holiday?
I definitely think that MiL should give more than two weeks notice though!

By the way - is there a Sil too, the children's father? If so, can he not take up some of the slack?

All employees are entitled to 5.6 weeks paid holiday, pro rata if part time and can include paid bank holidays within this allowance. While I feel it is unreasonable of the MIL of Ethel DD to suddenly take holiday while Ethel is convalescing and unable to help, I really cant see why the parents cant cover some of the child care? Not aiming this at any family in particular, so dont take it as a criticism, but surely, between 2 parents they have 11 weeks paid holiday,most employers ( myself included) are very flexible on staff taking unpaid leave if there is a emergency. Also, I dont know what age DGD is Ethel but there is 15 hours free nursery/pre-school available for all children over two years of age now, maybe your DD and SiL should start looking into this, and leave you and other grandma to do the other days. Not trying to tell you and your family how to run your life of course, but I feel this idea of giving up your life until DGS are at secondary school is not for all.

I agree with everything HildaW and MamaCaz have said , don't want to repeat all thats been said.

We have no 'hard and Fast' commitments to grandchildren, and wouldn't want to as we see this time of early retirement as being for us to enjoy after bringing up our own children and working hard.Having said that, our children/grandchildren all live close so we see a lot of them which is lovely, they come for meals or just drop in for an hour etc.I see one particular grandson twice a week usually, after school for a few hours, and we have a good bond.we help out when there is sickness, or a problem etc.we would always pick up from nursery if need to, as long as we are here, or school and so on.I know a few people who constantly look after grandchildren and they are very tired, it is a huge commitment to make.Your opposite number, Ethel, has been very inconsiderate though in taking an impromptu holiday when she is needed.I have one friend who is totally taken for granted, and does childcare for weeks at a time out of term time, and it is taking it's toll of her marriage.

I'm reiterating a couple of the comments above, I too wonder if the child care is given freely, or whether the grandparents were presented with a fait accompli when baby was born and there was an assumption that a grandparent/s would automatically give their time, if so, there could be a feeling of being taken for granted and a simmering resentment.

I'm amazed at how much grandparents do, I'm not sure previous generations paid such a pivotal role in child rearing, my grandparents certainly didn't and my mother went back to work full time when I was half way through junior school, but then attitudes were more lax then I think. We just came back from school and fended for ourselves until my mother returned. Of course that wouldn't be possible for very young children, and I'm not sure I'd have been happy with my children of say 8 and 10 being alone in the house for a couple of hours after school, but it wasn't unusual then. Can't even remember what our parents did in the holidays, think they must have shared it a bit and do remember spending a lot of time at a friend's house.

My husband has brought up 2 families, 4 children in total, and then stepped in and played an important role in his granddaughters lives when his son died and is unequivocal at this time of his life, now he is retired, he wants us to be free to go away at the drop of a hat and refuses to be tied down to "set in stone" child minding. We do a once a weekish sleepover with gd aged 5 and have stepped in for emergencies looking after her and baby brother when it was needed. We have also given them a lot of help financially. I'm wondering whether grandparents who take over a large part of the child rearing were ever consulted in the "planning" stages as to whether this is something they want and are able to commit to.

If arrangements have been put in place for child minding between two sets of grandparents then for that to work it would seem essential that they liaise with each other and give due notice for breaks etc. Nevertheless, ultimately it should be down to the parents to look after their own children if their parents, for any reason can't, In particular, I'm agreeing with MamaCaz's comments regarding holidays.

I have a similar problem. After looking after dgc for 1 or 2 days a week for 6 years my DH has said he has had enough of the commitment. He is in his early 70's and I'm not far behind. For reasons I won't go into I am unable to provide care on my own. I'm aware that this will put extra financial pressure on our DS. We also both have frail parents in their 90's. I feel very torn but recognise that I'm becoming very run down. The mistake we made was not to stipulate how long we were prepared to commit. Any advice would be appreciated as it's causing friction between my DH and me.

I can really sympathise, grannydil. My DH isn't at all on board with our arrangement, either, so I have an idea of the friction it can cause. He is a similar age to you and your DH (though I am quite a bit younger), and he hates the commitment and the way it limits what we can do.

Unlike you, I said from the start that I couldn't guarantee doing this long-term, and have since said that we can't / don't want to carry on giving this level of commitment once both children are in school. That is over two years away, but knowing that DS and particularly DDil are already very worried about how they will cope, I already feel bad about it.

Once you start childminding your grandchildren the dynamic of the relationship with your sons/daughters seems to change I'm afraid. As mothers and grandmothers we'll just carry on doing it till we drop, but sometimes it's the menfolk that see things as they really are .

Our GC are either at school or in full time childcare. This is very expensive even after the free 15 hrs for over 3yr olds. Her problems come with sickness and now school holidays, which is when we get the call out. We try to help when we can, but as I said it is a 270 mile round trip. She has developed friendships with other mothers that help out occasionally.
If both parents either have to, or want to, work, it is always going to be a problem.

Now both parents need to work and childcare is ridiculously expensive, grandparents need to help out far more than in previous generations.
I've been looking after grandchildren for 14 years. The youngest is starting school in September but I'll still be needed after school and during holidays until they can be left alone. I find little ones hard work, although it gets easier, but I don't drive and live in a small town with nothing at all for children to do without travelling and spending more than I can afford. I dread wet days with 8 hours of nonstop care even though I love being a big part of their lives.

It's good to see other grandparents supporting HildaW's post above.

DGS is over 100 miles away and we're both still working so this hasn't ever been an option but I would willingly help out in an emergency as other grandparents live abroad.

Yes MamaCas it's the guilt that is a killer. No matter how much we do we always feel we should do more and yes Tegan I think it is our menfolk who are more realistic. It does feel we're spreading ourselves too thinly as we also help out with the other dgc in school holidays. As we have responsibilities for very elderly parents as well I feel we are truly the sandwich generation. We have no alternative but to be involved in their care whereas my dgd could go to nursery but I know that will cause financial worries. There's no easy answer but at the moment I feel torn between the needs of my parents, my husband and my dgd.

It does seem a bit unfair Ethelbags that the other GM is booking a last minute holiday when you are out of action. It isn't as if she isn't aware of this. However, as a GM who pines for a holiday but is restricted by continuous emergency situations with youngest DD and her boys, I can see what others are getting at here. How long have we got old active time to enjoy? And ultimately, it is the responsibility of the parents of the children to ensure care for their DCs.

Normally my DD keeps us informed about what she needs from us and we have this filled in the diary. If we can't help, it is up to her to sort it out. And we give her plenty of notice if we have other commitments.

Unfortunately, we have hit another crisis point so my hopes of a little sun holiday has gone again. We wouldn't abandon her and DGSs when she is vulnerable.

Really paid childcare for working parents has become a nightmare. So expensive! Our DDs have had to abandon it entirely. One has left work. One works part time from home. The other, mentioned above, runs her own very busy business working long hours just to survive (no financial help at all from fathers of her 2 children).

And school holidays are looming again! Ours in N.ireland start end June.

We care for our DGD one day a week and the agreement is that we take holidays as and when we wish and DD makes alternative arrangements or shifts her hours around (she works part time and can do that). My DD was always very clear that she did not want our offer of child care to interfere with us having the opportunity to go away when holidays are cheaper.

All these comments on here highlights my (perhaps controversial) views that there is a problem out there with parents working and childcare and life choices. Governments banging on about everyone working and children, almost from birth, being cared for by someone else seems a retrograde step to me. Its getting to the point where I begin to ask 'why have children if you cannot have they joy of looking after them in their early years'.

Yes, I know everyone needs to earn a living and pay their way AND many many women enjoy the control and stimulation a job gives. BUT, where have the choices gone. All those hard fought battles by women in the past to be able to choose a job or a career or to be stay at home Mums.

Its such a huge subject but time and time again we see these problem of families almost breaking under the strain of juggling childcare and jobs - and yet how much better off are they. I've seen everything from 2 high powered parents earning enough for state-of-the-art cars and luxury holidays with a child with a series of au pairs and complex nursery arrangements. To a Hardworking academic dad doing the job he loves for a pittance and his wife staying at home to nurture their children on a very limited income. Guess which was the happier family?

I couldn't agree more Hilda. It makes me sad that both parents so often have to work full time, and children spend long hours in day nurseries. I think for a child the next best thing to being in a parent's care is being in a loving grandparent or relative's care and I feel very fortunate to be able to provide this service for my children. It doesn't take away the fact that I am experiencing things they should be experiencing, all those moments with their children that will never come again. But this is the world we have now, and I'm afraid it's becoming impossible to even rent a home on one salary now, let alone buy one.