Estranged Grandparents .

Well we chose 3 cards yesterday one for Mollie Daisy and Lola does t feel right not to somehow and will e close a next voucher for each one.

Had my ct scan in and out no waiting at all! Got wait week or so for results.

Bought. New dress! Pleased stretch black lace job.
Cheapie from George can't believe how good it looks!

Enjoy time with your little one yogsgirl.

Spoke Steve our so son last night so pleased we seeing him at Xmas.

Off get ready for Xmas meal now.

So very sad Celebgran I feel your pain as it's the same as mine. I thought this morning that it's now become the norm, fourth Xmas without them :'(
After my two classes today, I'm meeting up with my ND and we are going to the Xmas market on Southend Pier, so that should be !lovely. My ND phoned me yesterday and it was a video call, it was amazing! It was like they were sitting in bed with me, just like my little Laila did every morning when she and her mum, my now EstD, lived with me! :'( :-) :'( :-)

Yogagirl I know how very hard it is for you. A d smileless and all of us in this sad position especially this time of year.

Obviously meant 7 years this iPad !

Wendysue it's been 7 heads for us and some times I feel I just can't cope anymore, especially at Xmas.

In our case s I law rang our daughters godparents and cut them out after writing to us and doing same letter was written by our daughter.
No one thought it would be forever !

Tor and I were ver close but had volatile relationship and the year she had our beloved first Gra daughter her grandad was v ill I had p.o.a. And was busy trying care for him.
He only met his great Grandaughter once! Then row started when I rang her and she,said they were getting mollie ready go to see s I law Gran on birthday I said it is your Gran dad birthday next week and he never met mollie yet! Wham she went off on one and that was start.
Then I read text on her phone running me down.
We never discussed it it wish to my dying day I had ignored it but i texted her about it. She denied it. I admitted reading it. And then got last text from her saying she had new family now. Sorry to ramble on.

Her grandad died she was very awkward about funeral he was only Grandparent my children. Knew and she refused to come to burial of ashes.
She attended cremation but we only saw her once afterwards and then I saw text and after that she changed her landline and mobile we have no phone contact.

It will always hurt me especially when I tried so hard to be good mum I even paid for her to see specialist she was worried about being able have children and I was 24hr support when she fell pregnant as she had scares.
Imagine how hurt I was to be told 2 years later she had another child and didn't even tell us.

I survived but it damaged my health. I am vulnerable and so easily hurt now and I suffered skin condition dr said purely stress, also high blood pressure same again.

I CAN only hope to find peace of mind. At least I have good husband and marvellous son, but it has tested our relationship.

WE did get forms to apply to court and paid solicitor to try sort mediation she refused in most hurtful way then proceeded to assassinate my character.

I doubt we will ever see her again but I would give anything to just talk to her and ask why?

wendysue Thank you for your kind words. Yes I tried everything under the sun! Asking for a meeting to be set up, including his m&D, I said I would apologise if I'd upset him etc. I asked family members to help, this resulted in my losing my Son & f.i.L with his lies & deceit, using the "your my brother" on my Son. I'm back talking to my f.I.L that I'd been friendly with for 37yrs, but my Son is still lost to me :'( There was no meeting. I realised that my S.i.L & his mother are both narcissists, top of the tree types. My D & GD lived with me before he came along and we had a very special and loving bond.

Oh, Yoga, that's terrible! How can someone turn like that (like your SIL did) so quickly? Just because you mapped out the reality for him? And then stay angry for so long - four years - oh!

I guess your D is going along with this? After you were there for her when she needed you? That must hurt even more. I'm getting teary just thinking about it. Once again, I'm so very sorry.

I'm sure D must miss you sometimes. Perhaps, eventually, she'll miss you enough to contact you. I hope so. Have you tried to contact her - just her, not him or your GC?

You sound like a strong, confident woman. That should get you through. I hope this doesn't last too much longer though.

No you're not going mad celebgran I put that quote on our page too

I, and I know C&S were all good kind mums & nans. I had no problems with my s.i.l till he cut me out'. I would only ever praise both of them, never criticised' When this all began with my D & her husban having a big arguemt whilst, I & my other D were on holiday together, he (my s.i.l) was phoning me every half hour, till I packed up and came home to help. Again I was praising him, telling him he was a good dad and husband. My D stayed with me during this time of their big arguemnt, I tried to mediate between them, to get them back together, but when I said to him 'it would be my D that would get custody of Laila (not his child) therefore Jack and it would be the mother & babies that stay in the family home, it's the man that leaves. With that his hate went from my D to me he took her back and cut me out! Fourth Xmas without them
Trying out a new key board... not good

That's a marvellous expression yogagirl I though I commented on it, must be going. Senile !
X

When life gives you a thousand reasons to cry,
show the world you have a million reasons to smile!

In the UK we have the Children Act 1989. It isn't perfect, by the time families need the law to intervene, we're into least worse rather than best interests imo. It does though provide a baseline. The family court Judges are generally skilled enough to know these issues 'aren't always so black and white" and do have "basic standards" etc.

Yes, I agree, too, it should be mostly about the children, not the adults. There's a problem, however, I think, because the "best interests of the child" aren't always so clear. A GP may not be what one would call "abusive," but if they often badmouth the mom or dad or criticize their rules in front of the child, that could damage the child's respect for their parents. That, in turn, could hurt the parent/child relationship, which clearly isn't good for the child. A judge might not be able to predict those longterm effects, but they still might be there.

On the other hand, just because both parents agree that a certain GP shouldn't see a child doesn't mean they're right, IMO. They could both be vindictive, petty or just wrong. Also, one could just be going along to get along with the other. Unfortunately, since these issues aren't always so black and white, I guess the courts need some kind of basic standard to go by, and the idea of supporting a decision made by two fit parents probably makes sense, even though it can end up hurting some good, loving GPs. I just don't know how that problem could be solved.

I definitely agree that it has to be a case-by-case thing. What works for one family isn't necessarily going to work for another.

It's just such a shame such cases have to exist at all. Though I'm not in this kind of situation, I know that "there but for fortune, etc." So I really hope they find better ways to resolve these very sad problems.

Absolutely right redheaded mommy. The Children Act supports the fact that contact to children by family members/absent parents should be encouraged unless it's not in the interests of the child.
I empathise with grandparents, grandchildren and parents locked into destructive conflicts. It dominates life, wrecks health and affects other relationships than the ones at the centre of the battle.
It's a great pity that some excellent charities (Pro Contact for example) are having grants from central government and l.a.'s cut at a time of increasing need.

I totally agree that it should be about the rights of the child, not the grandparents. Every child should be allowed to know their family origins. This may or may not involve actual contact. It would be wonderful if all grandparents were caring and loving, unfortunately they aren't. It is so sad for those who are cut out from their GCs lives without any cause, but that shouldn't mean we should legislate to make all children have to see their GPs. I think riciorian's story shows that holding on, and waiting patiently can pay off. Standing back and not being dragged into dispute and argument must have taken great strength and patience and not condemning the ex-DIL must have been so difficult. So pleased it has had a happy ending.

I'm on the fence with this.

I think it should be called "Grandchild or Childs rights" not all Grandparents are lovely people and it's unfair to let a child have a relationship with a grandparent just because of the title.

100% believe that grandparents who have been cut out through spite, who have been a positive, loving role model for children should get to see and spend time with their DGC. I loved seeing my nan as a child and still do now!

Grandparents who are abusive, selfish, nasty who bring nothing into a child's life, I don't think should get the time of day.

Being a parent, daughter, son etc doesn't mean you're a nice person. The title doesn't give you the right. Each person is different and each case will have to be looked into individually. It's not as black and white as that unfortunately.

You can go to court for access to grandchildren if you can provide evidence that you have been a constant in their life. It's completely unfair for an adult let alone a child to be ripped away from a loving member of the family. Really hope you ladies get the outcome you want.

You're more than welcome to the hugs, ladies. And thank you, celebgran, for the compliment.

It's interesting, celebgran, that you and DH were advised to step back for your own sake. So often, I hear people say that EPs should step back to give their adult DS or DD "space." However, the idea that this might help the GPs, too, makes sense to me. Trying to make contact with an unwilling person or their kids must be very stressful. I'm sorry if it has damaged your health. I hope you and DH can focus more on healing now.

NanaM, I'm not surprised you feel as if you're grieving - a double grief, I suppose, because you're DD is "lost' (for now) to mental illness and addiction and you're being deprived of your GC on top of that. How very painful! I'm so sorry! I understand that the dad may be disappointed in the mom, but I don't get why he should feel any hurt where her parents are concerned. Is he blaming you for your adult DD's actions? So unfair! I hope he gets over that soon.

MissW52, I'm glad to hear that you're now seeing your GC again! I hope it continues. I'm sorry you had to hear your GD say those hurtful things, that time, but I agree with your friends that she was just echoing what she heard her parents say. Or maybe voicing a child's interpretation of what she heard her parents' say. But I'm glad that's all behind you now.

Synonymous, I agree with your idea about keeping contentious things off the FB page. Saying anything that might upset the parents if they saw it could simply backfire. Also, I like the idea of keeping an Ancestry tree in the hopes of making a connection with an EGC someday. The Internet is definitely the way to go where young people are concerned.

Falconbird that is marvellous likewise there were times was a chore having Gra dad over so often he was sole surviving grandparent only passed 7 years ago, but I do feel glad I never pushed him away it would t have occurred to me.

Seems different for this generation.ultimately the children are then,losers, we would have given so much time and love to the little ones.

When I was a young mum bringing up 3 children I would never have stopped my mother and in-laws from seeing my children. I sometimes would have liked to because all three of them were a nightmare.

They were critical, difficult and generally really awful. However it wasn't all about me and my dh, it was about the children needing to see their grandparents, warts and all and I was a buffer between them and my kids.

My friends were all the same and we all put up with a lot for the sake of the children. I went through some dreadful Christmases with criticism, moaning, etc, from the grandparents but I just shrugged it off.

All the grandparents have now passed away and I'm glad my children knew them and of course, it wasn't all bad and they have happy memories of an older generation and an idea of where they came from and which inherited characteristics to avoid.

So happy for you riclorian.
Well done for being so faithful and true for such a long time and for not saying anything unhelpful now that contact has been resumed.

I have to agree with the suggestion of GPs having a Facebook page since young people are so very curious and your DGC will certainly look. Just make sure there is nothing contentious on there no matter how tempting! Zip it and let love conquer all!
Ancestry Family trees are another way of ensuring a family presence on the internet and since young people are so into technology and are so curious it could be another opportunity for making connections.

So much hurt and pain out there, so many families ruptured, it is truly overwhelming. My thoughts and prayers are with all those suffering this type of bereavement.

MissW52. I hope things continue to go well for you.

So sorry NannaM

Nice to see you on this thread Celebgran & Smileless and well said both of you on 'our page'

How awful for you MissW52 to hear that from your beloved GD is things of nightmares , yet you are back in their lives now, so that is wonderful. For sure your GD got that sentence from her mum, your D.i.l, no doubt the babysitter had something to say to your GD about that being a very unkind thing to say to her nannie & I imagine the parents; your Son and D.i.l were told of it too. Did they reunited with you soon after, I wonder.

I think Grandparents should have rights.
Being locked out of my grandchildrens lives made me feel suicidal, I felt like I had nothing to live for.
It has happened on a number of occasions, one of which was years.
The thing that made me feel suicidal was when I went to my sons house with presents for my grandchildren but they weren't in & the babysitter took the presents. My granddaughter (5/6) was standing on the stairs & I asked if Grandma could get a cuddle & I wasn't prepared for what happened next...she said "we don't want to see you because we don't like you" I just walked away feeling sick & my head was spinning. I got in to my car & drove home with tears streaming down my face, I couldn't believe what I had just heard & it was being repeated again & again in my head. When I told my friends they said that a 5/6yr old child doesn't come away with comments like that & she had probably heard her parents say it.
At present I am seeing my grandchildren (2 girls & 2 boys) which is great but I am always aware of what I say or do in case it's the wrong thing. I am also happy that my son is back in my life & his wife & I are getting on ok.

Thank you riclorian for sharing your story of hope. Our eldest GC will be 4 in January and was 8 months old when we were last allowed to have any contact with him. Our second was born just 2 weeks ago, and shares the same bday as the grand father he'll probably never know.

They will never have any memories of us, we will see them from time to time as they live only 15 doors away; we'll see them with our ES and with the child minder. Based on the lies that have already been told, I dread to think what those children will be told to explain why we were never a part of their lives.

We send bday and Christmas cards and from time to time I put my thoughts of love into poetry. I always buy 2 of each of the cards, one for them and one for their memory boxes which will be left to them in my will.

Unless parents truly believe their children will be at risk of abuse, there is no justification for depriving their children of grandparents who simply want to love them. To do so is a cruel and vindictive act. They're using their children like weapons, to inflict pain and suffering on the very people who loved them and did their best for them. Or in the case of a divorce, to exact revenge on the parents of their ex.

You are grieving NannaM, it's referred too as a living bereavement; in some cases we grieve for the children and grandchildren we've lost but are living still, for others due to the breakdown of their child's relationship it is the grandchildren who they lose.

They've taken away something that can never be given back; lost years and for us, they've taken away our only chance of being grandparents.

I feel like Im grieving without a death.
Here in Canada, the law takes the view of "in the best interests of the child". However, if the custodial parent(s) feel that it is not in the childs best interests to see the grandparents, the courts are reluctant to rule against a guardians opinions. (seeing as the guardian was appointed by the court in the first place).
In my case, I have been advised to keep a paper trail, be as conciliatory as possible (difficult), and to always be open to dialogue, mediated or otherwise.
All I really have is hope. Hope that my DGD's mother, my DD, will return from mental illness and drug addiction to take her rightful place as part of her little girls life. And hope that reason and love will win over the hurt my DGD's father feels towards his daughters mother and her family.

Stupid iPad meant we need to protect ourselves