when to stop

Thanks so much for all your replies, much appreciated.

My son should be back in May, he has been away since the end of March, so let us hope all will change then, as my DL must be missing him.
Also, I seem to remember hearing him say to his daughter:
'If you stay downstairs at night we can get out at the w/e more often'

After he left she was enjoying sleeping with her mum, but I believe now she has remained in her room at night, so hopefully it will get better.
To give you some idea of how my two were brought up, although I expect I will get replies -- 'YOU DID WHAT!
From an early age we took them to the Lske District etc walking then being carried on our backs. Later on camping.
I sent our younger son on an YMCA holiday for a week when he was 10 yrs of age.
When they were both 14 they went on Outward Bound Courses, which was the making of them both. Did any of you put your kids on one of these courses?
Before they studied for their GCE, one did an exchange visit and the other went on a youth sailing trip. Besides of course the school trips, one scouting trip and naturally family holidays

Despite all I have been keeping quiet and not interfering at all. She won't be able to be in her pyjames next week as she is sharing a birthday party.
This evening it seemed to go down well, when I mentioned to my DL, in an assertive way; that the others in her form are now wearing their summer uniform, which they haven't bought yet, so she said she would sort that out at the w/e.

All the best and thanks again,

Cath

You sent me down memory lane a nooning. Same thing happened in Zambia. My husband even had his clothes hooked through the window one night!

Annodomini!

Wilks, just opposite this house is a small convert. One of the nuns, who I spoke to yesterday, comes from Zambia. She is full of live and is returning for a holiday to Zambia next mnth.
She did put me straight when telling me that she was brought up by her grandparents, as her parents were abroad

I think this having children brought up by older family members is normal in other cultures - I know a man who has married a much younger Thai woman with a young son - he is being brought up by HER grandmother! When she still lived in Thailand she lived and worked miles away and she was very happy to move to UK and leave the child behind.

Just do not know what to say- but it also seems to me your son is equally responsible, a/ by his long absence and b/ by lying in bed when he is home- but mainly for living with you with his family. Here is the crux of the matter- they need to find their own home and you enjoy yours as you wish to, and not be put in this impossible situation. Not interfering is one thing, but not interfering when it is under your roof and you witness every minute and then are not alllowed to pick up pieces in the only way you see fit- is just impossible- and terrible for your health alround I'd say.



damned if you do, damned if you don't - a nightmare.

I'm not sure they do actually live with cathy9 * GJ* I got the impression they did formerly, but now that cathy goes over to babysit after school, but I may have missed something.
I do find it all confusing though, and agree both parents share the responsibility for their daughter. I don't see the relevance of DS's promise to "do more at weekends" if the little girl stays in her own room at night. Fair enough if she needs a "carrot" but why is she coming (presumably) into their room? Insecurity? Because she sees so little of them? The impression I get is of a couple who have not really taken on board what family life is about.
You seem to be treading on eggshells. Your offer of cooking because you thought your DIL might not be well could sounded like implicit criticism. We all like to be needed but sometimes daughters don't like to ask!!
Why did you worry about "being assertive" when you pointed out your DGD should have been in summer uniform? Did she not tell her mum or the school not tell her? I have to admit DD made exactly the same mistake a year ago when she herself went back to work after maternity leave and started (teaching) at a new school after Easter, and trying to be organised, got 4 year old DGS's uniform all ready for the new term including 2 new pairs of trousers only for him to come home on day one and tell her all the boys were in shorts! Grrr!!
Different countries do have different customs and perhaps your DIL thinks it is normal for granny to do all the work, but your son was presumably brought up in the UK so I am amazed at his attitude.
I do wonder if there are deeper problems but at present you have a hard choice, step into the breach(?) or have the conversation with the parents about their responsibilities. You could of course just "not be available" ?

Sounds as if your DiL would benefit from some helpful guidance on what is expected of her. Eg school uniform, appropriate clothing, level of supervision, playing out. She may just not know what her responsibilities as a parent are here, especially if she is used to having servants. She may even be grateful for the information.
If you are willing you could arrange to do some activites with your GD at weekends, at prearranged times, explain to DiL that that is what other families do and what children need.
Could she do some kind of child development class / read a book about it?
If social services had ever become involved for any reason I think they would have taken a dim view of lack of supervision and activity - signs of neglect.