Thanks for your input ladies, and yes it is a complicated mess, I keep being told that as a family they have moved on and I need to just ' suck it up' as youngsters say, our ex DiL is remarrying next year and once again we were very supportive, her new man doesn't want contact with us , and I understand that although we really liked him and we were thrilled that she had met someone else, therefore we no longer visit them but my ex DiL would come here or meet in a coffee shop .... I have tried to talk and meet with the older daughter she made excuses not to ,which I didn't make a big deal of, she didn't contact us then she didn't wish me a happy birthday ( might sound petty but that hurt ) I may be heartbroken and an emotional wreck but don't kick me when I'm down it's cruel, and in my opinion she does need to grow up, I don't blame her mum for this the girl isn't a child and nor is her brother, I don't know what has been said to him but he is in the Royal Navy and has always contacted and visited us when he's home, we have always been the only GP's to bother about them but he also has ignored us since March I've tried to contact him to no avail and I learned from the 16yr GD that he changed his phone and number , I know young men don't always visit and keep in touch with GP's he has a busy life which I totally understand but I also know a text takes two minutes and I'd be happy with that, but you are all correct I need to talk to my ex DiL if only for the sake of our 16 yr old GD, and I need a good kick in the backside to stop me being so emotional